Housing changes begin to unravel Katrina victims' lives

[Svnla]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5392785.html

Gotta love some of these:

****Half can't find full-time jobs and get paid less than $15,000 a year, according to the Texas Low Income Housing Information Service. Also, county officials said 48 percent of their DHAP clients are unemployed.****** Must be Bush/Republicans' faults..uh huh...

*****Michelle Mercadel, a part-time cashier, and her seven children ? Netchelle, 17, Kiara, 15, Brittany, 14, Gerald Guy, 9, Brea, 6, Reginisha, 5, and Brian, 18 months ? moved in with her mother******* Where the babies' DADDIES??? <note the plural> and if you are a PART TIME cashier, you won'be be able to support SEVEN kids, that's just common sense.

 

[alchemize]

Netchelle, Kiara, Brittany, Gerald Guy, Brea, Reginisha, and Brian

:music:"One of these things is not like the others, one of these is not the same!":music:

 

[Jaskalas]

Guess we?ve taught the youth that children are somehow free and that you can be irresponsible and others will pay for your decision to have 7 children.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: Svnla
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5392785.html

Gotta love some of these:

****Half can't find full-time jobs and get paid less than $15,000 a year, according to the Texas Low Income Housing Information Service. Also, county officials said 48 percent of their DHAP clients are unemployed.****** Must be Bush/Republicans' faults..uh huh...

*****Michelle Mercadel, a part-time cashier, and her seven children ? Netchelle, 17, Kiara, 15, Brittany, 14, Gerald Guy, 9, Brea, 6, Reginisha, 5, and Brian, 18 months ? moved in with her mother******* Where the babies' DADDIES??? <note the plural> and if you are a PART TIME cashier, you won'be be able to support SEVEN kids, that's just common sense.

What's your point? Are you ready to offer help, or do you just like to bash the less fortunate?

 

[Craig234]

When looking at people making poor choices like the 7 kids, you can hate them and blame them and mock them and call that a policy, or you can recognize that some people are less educated and have other issues and are more prone to those bad choices, and ask how public policy can have a positive impact in a way that's cost effective and respects rights.

To make an analogy, the same people who do the former above are more likely on smoking to have thought that at most all that's needed is a warning label on cigarettes,and if anything the government spending money on the issue was questionable - while others would see the benefits to anti-smoking measures, recognizing the addictiveness of nicotine additives, and support such controversial measures as the ban on TV ads for cigarettes.

The former's policies with just the warning labels would leave far more people using and being killed by cigarettes, while the latter group has plummeted the use of cigarettes in the US (not internationally, where US tobacco companies see their growth and big profits).

Note the difference, between the former as ideological and unworkable, and the latter which tries to improve the situation. Jaskalas rues about the lesson taught to children that having those 7 kids was ok, as if that has any constructive effect; he could ask himself who better knows the problems, him or the mother after she had had 4 or 5 of the 7 and continued to have more - it wasn't ignorance of the issue that led to her choice.

The thing is, the former group tends to try to solve the problem by grasping for whatever desperate, drastic, short-sighted policy is easy - 'let's stop providing any aid for those children' is a frequent message - without considering whether those drastic measures would cause more harm than good, whether they'd have the desired benefits or bad unintended effected, and to consider more thoughtful, liberal approaches - or larger issues, e.g., poverty.

It's be one thing if the debate was well-informed, but it's not; it's between largely uninformed people, and corrupted by the propaganda floating in the air, offering people catch phrases to use that are misleading, inaccurate, to serve some group's agenda. So all we get instead are threads like this mocking the childrens' names.

We probably all agree the woman above did not make good choices. The question I'd ask is what can be done to help women in her situation make better choices, besides the simplistic and harmful response by the reactionaries to simply get rid of aid for the children, with the harm that would bring?

For a starting point, note the irony in how - globally - the poorest people are the ones who have the most children, leading to problems ranging from the suffering that causes, to the economic impact of having the population in the worst situation have the highest growth rate.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: Svnla
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5392785.html

Gotta love some of these:

****Half can't find full-time jobs and get paid less than $15,000 a year, according to the Texas Low Income Housing Information Service. Also, county officials said 48 percent of their DHAP clients are unemployed.****** Must be Bush/Republicans' faults..uh huh...

*****Michelle Mercadel, a part-time cashier, and her seven children ? Netchelle, 17, Kiara, 15, Brittany, 14, Gerald Guy, 9, Brea, 6, Reginisha, 5, and Brian, 18 months ? moved in with her mother******* Where the babies' DADDIES??? <note the plural> and if you are a PART TIME cashier, you won'be be able to support SEVEN kids, that's just common sense.

What's your point? Are you ready to offer help, or do you just like to bash the less fortunate?

That's not bashing and these people are not "less fortunate".

They're insanely irresponsible and should be treated as they are.

They have no business popping out kids like Orville Reddbacher pop corn.

Take the kids away and sterilize these baby making money grubbing leeches.

There are a lot of hard working responsible parents looking to adopt.

 

[Svnla]

Feralkid - we did help, for OVER 2 YEARS, with free/assisted housing, welfare, foodstamps and on and on. WHEN will it stop? I bet that she and people like her were on the government...ie. the taxpayers like you and me for years while they were in NO.

Craig -help her? hummmm.. why first generation immigrants like myself didn't make bad choices <note the plural> like she or many like her did for years and years and years? Who helps us? Oh yeah, I forgot, WE HELP OURSELVES!!!! Gosh, what a strange and so brave and new concept/idea.
BTW, we did help her and people like her for years. Remmember the Great Society Program? How about all the free housing, welfare, foodstamp, WIC, and on and on programs? Do you really think the poors are getting better now compare with the 50s and 60s with all the BILLIONS we spent on those social "help" programs?

Dave - until you are getting serious, I will just ignore you. I am suprise that you didn't bash Bush and Republicans this time. You are losing your touch, man.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Craig234
When looking at people making poor choices like the 7 kids, you can hate them and blame them and mock them and call that a policy, or you can recognize that some people are less educated and have other issues and are more prone to those bad choices, and ask how public policy can have a positive impact in a way that's cost effective and respects rights.

I find providing for the irresponsible tends to promote further irresponsibility. Who cares how many children she has, you?re going to pay for it. So then I challenge you to do more than just throw money at the problem, and then the door will be open to agree on something.

My spite is in the current system, not in something that would actually achieve a result.

Of course, if you or I had the solution to this problem we likely would have posted it already.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Svnla
Feralkid - we did help, for OVER 2 YEARS, with free/assisted housing, welfare, foodstamps and on and on. WHEN will it stop? I bet that she and people like her were on the government...ie. the taxpayers like you and me for years while they were in NO.

Craig -help her? hummmm.. why first generation immigrants like myself didn't make bad choices <note the plural> like she or many like her did for years and years and years? Who helps us? Oh yeah, I forgot, WE HELP OURSELVES!!!! Gosh, what a strange and so brave and new concept/idea.
BTW, we did help her and people like her for years. Remmember the Great Society Program? How about all the free housing, welfare, foodstamp, WIC, and on and on programs? Do you really think the poors are getting better now compare with the 50s and 60s with all the BILLIONS we spent on those social "help" programs?

Dave - until you are getting serious, I will just ignore you.

I am suprise that you didn't bash Bush and Republicans this time. You are losing your touch, man.

Why do you think I am not serious?

I lived there and saw these people first hand before and after Katrina.

I didn't get one single penny from FEMA.

I nearly died there and it cost me at least $10,000 with $2000 on gasoline alone between generator and travel.

I'm certainly qualified to rant on this.

 

[Darwin333]

Wow, I didn't figure this would make ATOT. I had to measure a job on Tulane today. As I was leaving I turned on Loyola and saw the rucuss as I was passing City Hall. I had a bit of time so I parked a few blocks away and walked back to see what was going on.

Mind you, I kept a pretty good distance because it didn't look like a good scene but it got WILD. People where screaming and shouting pushing and shoving. Then you seen them all surge backwards, after I watched the video I know thats when they used the pepper spray, but at the time I had no clue what was going on. As they where "regrouping" an assload of mounted police and the SWAT team showed up. I figured that was a damn good time to get the hell out of there.

Crazy seen. The funny part of it is most of the people protesting are white. I hate to inject race into it but white folk didn't live in the New Orleans housing projects. Most of the people who DID live in the housing projects are all for the new and much improved mixed income developments they are going to rebuild. I wish they could make those protesters live in the projects they are protesting to keep. Bet it would change their minds real quick.

The real question is, what is the real agenda behind the protesters?

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: Svnla
Feralkid - we did help, for OVER 2 YEARS, with free/assisted housing, welfare, foodstamps and on and on. WHEN will it stop? I bet that she and people like her were on the government...ie. the taxpayers like you and me for years while they were in NO.

Try generations. Some of those people have lived in the housing projects their entire lives. Part of the problem is the design of the housing itself which is what HUD is trying to fix now.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Darwin333
Wow, I didn't figure this would make ATOT. I had to measure a job on Tulane today. As I was leaving I turned on Loyola and saw the rucuss as I was passing City Hall. I had a bit of time so I parked a few blocks away and walked back to see what was going on.

Mind you, I kept a pretty good distance because it didn't look like a good scene but it got WILD. People where screaming and shouting pushing and shoving. Then you seen them all surge backwards, after I watched the video I know thats when they used the pepper spray, but at the time I had no clue what was going on. As they where "regrouping" an assload of mounted police and the SWAT team showed up. I figured that was a damn good time to get the hell out of there.

Crazy seen. The funny part of it is most of the people protesting are white. I hate to inject race into it but white folk didn't live in the New Orleans housing projects. Most of the people who DID live in the housing projects are all for the new and much improved mixed income developments they are going to rebuild. I wish they could make those protesters live in the projects they are protesting to keep. Bet it would change their minds real quick.

The real question is, what is the real agenda behind the protesters?

It's always all all about the money.

Find out who is paying the protesters and you have the answer.

I'm not there for a while now but before I left people like Donald Trump were buying up all the land (it was up to 38% when I left in Feb 2006) to put in Condo projects.

I suspect the protesters are being paid by the lower rungs of the Real Estate elite such as Century 21, Re-Max etc since they have lost out on the majority of the Real Estate in New Orleans.

 

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Svnla
Feralkid - we did help, for OVER 2 YEARS, with free/assisted housing, welfare, foodstamps and on and on. WHEN will it stop? I bet that she and people like her were on the government...ie. the taxpayers like you and me for years while they were in NO.

Try generations. Some of those people have lived in the housing projects their entire lives. Part of the problem is the design of the housing itself which is what HUD is trying to fix now.

I mean 2 years since Katrina (while they live in Houstons). See the bold part.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: Svnla

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Svnla
Feralkid - we did help, for OVER 2 YEARS, with free/assisted housing, welfare, foodstamps and on and on. WHEN will it stop? I bet that she and people like her were on the government...ie. the taxpayers like you and me for years while they were in NO.

Try generations. Some of those people have lived in the housing projects their entire lives. Part of the problem is the design of the housing itself which is what HUD is trying to fix now.

I mean 2 years since Katrina (while they live in Houstons). See the bold part.

My apologies, and you are most likely right. Some of them litterally think it is their home because they lived there for 40 years.

As an update to everyone else:

The city council is getting ready to vote on the demolition. I predict a unanimous vote to demolish the housing projects.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Darwin333
Wow, I didn't figure this would make ATOT. I had to measure a job on Tulane today. As I was leaving I turned on Loyola and saw the rucuss as I was passing City Hall. I had a bit of time so I parked a few blocks away and walked back to see what was going on.

Mind you, I kept a pretty good distance because it didn't look like a good scene but it got WILD. People where screaming and shouting pushing and shoving. Then you seen them all surge backwards, after I watched the video I know thats when they used the pepper spray, but at the time I had no clue what was going on. As they where "regrouping" an assload of mounted police and the SWAT team showed up. I figured that was a damn good time to get the hell out of there.

Crazy seen. The funny part of it is most of the people protesting are white. I hate to inject race into it but white folk didn't live in the New Orleans housing projects. Most of the people who DID live in the housing projects are all for the new and much improved mixed income developments they are going to rebuild. I wish they could make those protesters live in the projects they are protesting to keep. Bet it would change their minds real quick.

The real question is, what is the real agenda behind the protesters?

It's always all all about the money.

Find out who is paying the protesters and you have the answer.

I'm not there for a while now but before I left people like Donald Trump were buying up all the land (it was up to 38% when I left in Feb 2006) to put in Condo projects.

I suspect the protesters are being paid by the lower rungs of the Real Estate elite such as Century 21, Re-Max etc since they have lost out on the majority of the Real Estate in New Orleans.

I agree that it is most likely about the money. Some people rumor that its politics at play (Dems don't want them torn down so more poor blacks live in the city who will vote for the Dems, Repubs are rumored to be doing the exact opposite in order to have a more republican leaning district) but I really don't believe that seeing how this entire thing has played out.

I have a picture of an actual flier (printed on regular paper from an inkjet) GLUED to buildings around the city that said "For every public housing unit that is torn down we will destroy a condo (with picture of flaming building in the background)". It would appear there protesters where being run by either an incredibly ignorant person or someone who actually desired the destruction of the housing projects. Threats like significantly hurt the cause just like the riot earlier.

 

[Darwin333]

Update

City council votes 7-0 in favor of demolishing the housing projects. It appears the "Protesters" for the most part have already went home.

 

[loup garou]

Originally posted by: Darwin333
Update

City council votes 7-0 in favor of demolishing the housing projects. It appears the "Protesters" for the most part have already went home.

:thumbsup:
For once in my life, I'm feeling a faint flicker of faith in New Orleans city government.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Svnla
*****Michelle Mercadel, a part-time cashier, and her seven children ? Netchelle, 17, Kiara, 15, Brittany, 14, Gerald Guy, 9, Brea, 6, Reginisha, 5, and Brian, 18 months ? moved in with her mother******* Where the babies' DADDIES??? <note the plural> and if you are a PART TIME cashier, you won'be be able to support SEVEN kids, that's just common sense.

Oh no you di-ent! They babydaddy dead is all!

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: loup garou

Originally posted by: Darwin333
Update

City council votes 7-0 in favor of demolishing the housing projects. It appears the "Protesters" for the most part have already went home.

:thumbsup:
For once in my life, I'm feeling a faint flicker of faith in New Orleans city government.

I wouldn't go that far.

The decision was a not a tough one. Do you take a ton of federal money and rebuild nice new mixed income housing units (and gasp, , maybe create property value in that area. Note I said create and not increase). Or do you get jack from the Feds and try to fix buildings that you wouldn't allow your dog to walk into at the cost of a billion or more?

Like I said earlier, very few people who actually lived in the housing projects where protesting this. Trying to rehab the current sites would take longer than tearing them down and building new and the new units are going to be much nicer.

I KNOW that the protesters where paid to be there by someone with an agenda. I am not sure what that agenda is but I doubt that most of those protesters even live in this state.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Like I said earlier, very few people who actually lived in the housing projects where protesting this. Trying to rehab the current sites would take longer than tearing them
down and building new and the new units are going to be much nicer.

I KNOW that the protesters where paid to be there by someone with an agenda.
I am not sure what that agenda is but I doubt that most of those protesters even live in this state.

The people who had lived in the 'Projects' had approved the destruction of the units prior to Katrina.
Post Katrina, the original residents did not go back to them, but a few 'Squatters' stayed in them.
Their presence and activities made that section of the city a high risk and high crime area.

The plan in process was to demolish those storm damaged abandoned structures,
and recycle the land recovered with new tenaments.


Riddle me this:

Why are there white activists from out of town trying to force the poor and homeless
into living in these lead paint and asbestos contaminated death traps?

I KNOW that the protesters where paid to be there by someone with an agenda.
I am not sure what that agenda is but I doubt that most of those protesters even live in this state.


Local radio WWL discused this protest at length as it unfolded today.
Consensus was that it's backed by contractors who are pushing a decision in either direction, both are wins.
Bunch of young college kids on break coming in believing that they are doing something good, free bus ticket, lunch, a chance to be on TV,
then penty of time later, when it's night, to check out the action on Burboun Street.
Here's an extra 20 bucks remember -the bus leaves from the Quarter at 9:00 AM tomorrow morning.

'Save the Hovels' and the refurb can begin now, and trap thousands in the same desair that led to their ruin.
Tear them down and start over, just a different phase of construction, same project with a much better outcome.

Hell, there are many other areas that could be so lucky. Ruined streets lined with ruined homes in 80% vacant neighborhoods.
Some are undriveable, with some homes still ungutted and unattended.
Every refrigerator is a science project.

There is a lot more available for occupancy here now, but at double the price . . or more.

Saving the Projects wouldn't help a damn thing here.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: Svnla
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5392785.html

Gotta love some of these:

****Half can't find full-time jobs and get paid less than $15,000 a year, according to the Texas Low Income Housing Information Service. Also, county officials said 48 percent of their DHAP clients are unemployed.****** Must be Bush/Republicans' faults..uh huh...

*****Michelle Mercadel, a part-time cashier, and her seven children ? Netchelle, 17, Kiara, 15, Brittany, 14, Gerald Guy, 9, Brea, 6, Reginisha, 5, and Brian, 18 months ? moved in with her mother******* Where the babies' DADDIES??? <note the plural> and if you are a PART TIME cashier, you won'be be able to support SEVEN kids, that's just common sense.

What's your point? Are you ready to offer help, or do you just like to bash the less fortunate?

That's not bashing and these people are not "less fortunate".

They're insanely irresponsible and should be treated as they are.

They have no business popping out kids like Orville Reddbacher pop corn.

Take the kids away and sterilize these baby making money grubbing leeches.

There are a lot of hard working responsible parents looking to adopt.

:Q

I actually agree with you.

 

[Slew Foot]

Everyone in the f'n coutnry wants a f'n handout, to take care of their own irresponsibility. F them.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Like I said earlier, very few people who actually lived in the housing projects where protesting this. Trying to rehab the current sites would take longer than tearing them
down and building new and the new units are going to be much nicer.

I KNOW that the protesters where paid to be there by someone with an agenda.
I am not sure what that agenda is but I doubt that most of those protesters even live in this state.

The people who had lived in the 'Projects' had approved the destruction of the units prior to Katrina.
Post Katrina, the original residents did not go back to them, but a few 'Squatters' stayed in them.
Their presence and activities made that section of the city a high risk and high crime area.

The plan in process was to demolish those storm damaged abandoned structures,
and recycle the land recovered with new tenaments.


Riddle me this:

Why are there white activists from out of town trying to force the poor and homeless
into living in these lead paint and asbestos contaminated death traps?

I KNOW that the protesters where paid to be there by someone with an agenda.
I am not sure what that agenda is but I doubt that most of those protesters even live in this state.


Local radio WWL discused this protest at length as it unfolded today.
Consensus was that it's backed by contractors who are pushing a decision in either direction, both are wins.
Bunch of young college kids on break coming in believing that they are doing something good, free bus ticket, lunch, a chance to be on TV,
then penty of time later, when it's night, to check out the action on Burboun Street.
Here's an extra 20 bucks remember -the bus leaves from the Quarter at 9:00 AM tomorrow morning.

'Save the Hovels' and the refurb can begin now, and trap thousands in the same desair that led to their ruin.
Tear them down and start over, just a different phase of construction, same project with a much better outcome.

Hell, there are many other areas that could be so lucky. Ruined streets lined with ruined homes in 80% vacant neighborhoods.
Some are undriveable, with some homes still ungutted and unattended.
Every refrigerator is a science project.

There is a lot more available for occupancy here now, but at double the price . . or more.

Saving the Projects wouldn't help a damn thing here.

I was listening to 105.3 for most of the day as well. The contractor angle makes just as much sense as any other. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if we could find out whose check Bill Quigley is cashing we would have a clear idea of who was behind it and their agenda.

I concur with the rest of your statements. The last thing we need to be devoting our time to is the housing projects. A recent report said that 3/4 of the residents reported 0 income. The very last thing this city needs are more areas with extremely high crime rates and more people sucking up public resources that we simply don't have.