Houses Divided:A hard look at segregation in Illinois

bbhaag

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Jul 2, 2011
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http://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-segregation-main-feature.html

Anyone else see this article from governing.com? It's the first part in a series of articles that they are going to publish. It hits home for me because I live in the Peoria area and I see the geographical divide between blacks and whites. It appears it's just not a Peoria problem but a State problem. It's a hard problem to solve. Illinois has so many issues right now and this is just one more to try an overcome. It just never stops, financial issues, government corruption, people leaving by the thousands......I love this State I've lived here my whole life and it's hard to read another bad story about Illinois.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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it's not just IL, it's the whole country, it started years ago and it was set by federal regs. even though they knew it was unconstitutional.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
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Unfortunately it's an ever growing problem. I've seen multiple articles on the subject and they all have one thing in common as the reason why:

Public schools are a key factor as well. While segregation in schools is often viewed as a product of the neighborhoods the schools are located in, the truth is much more complicated because schools shape the neighborhoods they serve. In many cases, in fact, they exacerbate segregation by driving white flight to suburban areas. That is especially true in Illinois, because of its proliferation of small school districts. As cities such as Peoria and Springfield stretch beyond their original district borders, white residents flock to the suburban-style schools on their peripheries. Farther-out villages have transformed themselves from farm towns to bedroom communities by luring white families with new subdivisions and the promise of better schools in stand-alone school districts. The net result is that predominantly white suburban districts are flourishing, while urban districts have become increasingly black and suffer from declining tax bases.

The only way I can think of to combat this is to redistribute taxes between cities/local governments, at least in regards to school funding. A good education shouldn't be dependant on what neighborhood a kid lives in.

Other issues not related to this new type of segregation but also as important are systemic issues regarding policing and the justice system. I think Leo's are in badly need of better training and how people are prosecuted and sentenced need to be looked at big time.
 

bbhaag

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Jul 2, 2011
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it's not just IL, it's the whole country, it started years ago and it was set by federal regs. even though they knew it was unconstitutional.
Yeah but it shouldn't be that way man. Illinois is suppose to be a shining beacon of blue in the Midwest. For close to five decades we have stood behind liberal and Democratic policies. Policies that were suppose to bring issues like this to an end but instead four paragraphs in I read lines like this "It’s particularly bad in large metro areas, and certainly the Chicago region is the most segregated in Illinois."
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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it's not just IL, it's the whole country, it started years ago and it was set by federal regs. even though they knew it was unconstitutional.

I've never seen "regulations" cited as a reason for segregation, in fact I've seen the opposite. In the south where schools are required to be mixed, the schools are less segregated than those in the north (new york for example).

I'd argue we need more regulations rather than less.
 

dawp

Lifer
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when you have entrenched institutions setting policies it is very difficult to change without a court order.
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Unfortunately it's an ever growing problem. I've seen multiple articles on the subject and they all have one thing in common as the reason why:



The only way I can think of to combat this is to redistribute taxes between cities/local governments, at least in regards to school funding. A good education shouldn't be dependant on what neighborhood a kid lives in.

Other issues not related to this new type of segregation but also as important are systemic issues regarding policing and the justice system. I think Leo's are in badly need of better training and how people are prosecuted and sentenced need to be looked at big time.
I agree with you that the neighborhood you live in should not dictate the quality of education you get. It will be a very hard sell trying to convince parents how their money is distributed to schools around the State.

I also agree with you on the issue of police officers and the justice system. I believe the issue revolves around many departments hiring ex-military personnel as officers. These personnel were not trained on how to handle a civilian population. They were trained how to behave and act in a war zone. The two are completely different situations but like you suggested with better training it might help alleviate some of the problems we are seeing.
 
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dawp

Lifer
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I've never seen "regulations" cited as a reason for segregation, in fact I've seen the opposite. In the south where schools are required to be mixed, the schools are less segregated than those in the north (new york for example).

I'd argue we need more regulations rather than less.
it may not have been an official reg, but redlining was policy and the feds did nothing to stop it and did everything to encourage it until they had to and it's still an issue
 
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Used to fly to Peoria every week for work.... Yeah, everytime I drove to the airport there is definitely some shitty living there to say the least.....

Overall nice little town though :p


I've never seen "regulations" cited as a reason for segregation, in fact I've seen the opposite. In the south where schools are required to be mixed, the schools are less segregated than those in the north (new york for example).

I'd argue we need more regulations rather than less.

Haven't heard of NIMBY apparently.... Liberals are great at that. If this is news to you then you're simply a moron.

But that's already been proven time and time again with your points of blissful under the table hand-jobs of the liberal party as if they are all knowing and all caring for us.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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it may not have been an official reg, but redlining was policy and the feds did nothing to stop it and did everything to encourage it until they had to and it's still an issue

Ah, I thought we were talking about current day regulations. So yes, our country and its people and therefore the government we elect does indeed have a racist background.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Lol in keeping with my previous statement, hit the link in the OP and see the map of places that have the highest segregation.

Everyone here would probably just assume it's gotta be in the southern racist states!... Nope... The more north you get, the higher the segregation gets. Fancy that liberals.... try putting your money where your mouth is for once.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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Used to fly to Peoria every week for work.... Yeah, everytime I drove to the airport there is definitely some shitty living there to say the least.....

Overall nice little town though :p




Haven't heard of NIMBY apparently.... Liberals are great at that. If this is news to you then you're simply a moron.

But that's already been proven time and time again with your points of blissful under the table hand-jobs of the liberal party as if they are all knowing and all caring for us.

Lol. Maybe you can show your work and show how regulations, specifically in regards to "NIMBY" have helped increase segregation.

You don't have a very good history of saying accurate things so feel free to change that impression.
 
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Nov 8, 2012
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Lol. Maybe you can show your work and show how regulations, specifically in regards to "NIMBY" have helped increase segregation.

You don't have a very good history of saying accurate things so feel free to change that impression.

I don't need to? Reasonable lefties on this forum such as @fskimospy have commented on NIMBY in liberal cities multiple times.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
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I don't need to? Reasonable lefties on this forum such as @fskimospy have commented on NIMBY in liberal cities multiple times.

Yeah I didn't think you would. I'm will aware of eskimospy's thoughts are on NIMBY, what I'm asking is for you to show how its related to segregation. Put up or shut up.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Are we really trying to assign blame on something that people happen to do naturally?

Ethnic enclaves exist ALL over the planet. There may be some exceptions, but comfort with diversity is not our natural behavior.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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Are we really trying to assign blame on something that people happen to do naturally?

Ethnic enclaves exist ALL over the planet. There may be some exceptions, but comfort with diversity is not our natural behavior.

Millions of years of human history disagrees with you. Humans have intermingled with various variants of humans since the beginning of time. I'd argue that our natural tendencies is to seek out economic opportunities, whether that means better living conditions in modern times or a better food supply in ancient times. I'd even go as far as to say that boxing people into categories (such as looks, religion, beliefs, aliegence, etc), as societies, has been done for economic reasons.
 

bbhaag

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Jul 2, 2011
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Used to fly to Peoria every week for work.... Yeah, everytime I drove to the airport there is definitely some shitty living there to say the least.....

Overall nice little town though :p




Haven't heard of NIMBY apparently.... Liberals are great at that. If this is news to you then you're simply a moron.

But that's already been proven time and time again with your points of blissful under the table hand-jobs of the liberal party as if they are all knowing and all caring for us.
Hey I think I remember you and I having a conversation about that some time ago. I saw your post in OT about leaving your job. Did you ever get a chance to make it out to my greenhouse while you were in the Peoria area?
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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Are we really trying to assign blame on something that people happen to do naturally?

Ethnic enclaves exist ALL over the planet. There may be some exceptions, but comfort with diversity is not our natural behavior.

That might be true, but it depends on how one defines 'diversity' and what characteristics one regards as important when deciding who is 'us' and who is 'them'. It doesn't really explain things, because you then have to ask why particular traits have come to seem central to defining 'diversity'.

Segregation in the US (and in other countries) has specific historical, social, economic, and political roots. You can't reduce it to some supposed 'universal' instinct as if there is nothing more to it.

For one thing it seems we aren't talking of recent migrants here. One can see obvious reasons why new arrivals, especially if there is a language and religion difference, might want to cluster with their own. That doesn't seem to be the mechanism in this case.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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Ah my state and even my hometown for good measure. The problems that we have are very similar to what I've seen across most of the rust belt. The cities were intentionally segregated by redlining, decreased investment, and other discriminatory policies. City services often ignored the black parts of town like they didn't even exist for the most part. Their infrastructure was left to rot.

There is a virulent core of racism across this region that rivals anything I've seen in the south and it mostly persists. We did business in Pekin, IL and I've probably never seen a place that would be more at home if the Nazis won the war.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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That might be true, but it depends on how one defines 'diversity' and what characteristics one regards as important when deciding who is 'us' and who is 'them'. It doesn't really explain things, because you then have to ask why particular traits have come to seem central to defining 'diversity'.

It's just basic human tribalism. "Other" is anyone outside the tribe, and while modern man has grown more tolerant than in the past, larger outward differences do still apply. I'm sure Democrat voters would not feel comfortable with MAGA hats and rebel flags next door. So what I probably should have said is tribalism. Because I'm sure we all do regard that as universal. Both historically and today.

Millions of years of human history disagrees with you. Humans have intermingled with various variants of humans since the beginning of time.

So then tell me, why do we self segregate? Don't tell me it's all outside influences. There may be socioeconomic reasons that help the problem persist, but such places are found world wide. Meaning it's not a local, regional, or even national issue. It's a human issue.
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
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This is playing out in blue states across the country. Housing advocates push for high density low income housing along desirable light rail transit hubs, only to be thwarted by NIMBYists, who suddently become huge advocates of small local government autonomy over zoning laws to preserve the “character” of their neighborhoods.

The high density housing instead gets built in working class neighborhoods that lack the tax revenue and resources to absorb the jolts in population, which inmediately impacts things like classroom sizes. Resentment builds, often along racial lines, and then you wonder why you started to see Trump stickers right next to union ones.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
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Are we really trying to assign blame on something that people happen to do naturally?

Ethnic enclaves exist ALL over the planet. There may be some exceptions, but comfort with diversity is not our natural behavior.
I was called a racist for saying that.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
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Anyone else see this article from governing.com? It's the first part in a series of articles that they are going to publish. It hits home for me because I live in the Peoria area and I see the geographical divide between blacks and whites. It appears it's just not a Peoria problem but a State problem. It's a hard problem to solve. Illinois has so many issues right now and this is just one more to try an overcome. It just never stops, financial issues, government corruption, people leaving by the thousands......I love this State I've lived here my whole life and it's hard to read another bad story about Illinois.

Everything has to be around race, right?

This is typical economic segregation, and nothing more:
  • Rich people live in an area because they can afford to.
  • Middle class live in an area because that is what they can afford.
  • Poor people live in an area because they can not afford anything else.

The sad truth, black men have the highest crime rates of all races. So first that should to be addressed before the community as a whole can change.

Want to end racial segregation, how about:

Teaching minorities the value of families staying together. Children raised in broke families are at an exponentially greater risk at committing crimes, joining gangs... etc.

Build community college campus next to public housing projects. Require everyone in public housing to go to college.

Get more minorities into the military - to help teach them discipline and get training.