House votes to finally end the SUV subsidy!

newmachineoverlord

Senior member
Jan 22, 2006
484
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Full article
"By H. JOSEF HEBERT, Associated Press Writer1 hour, 15 minutes ago

Declaring a new direction in energy policy, the House on Saturday approved $16 billion in taxes on oil companies, while providing billions of dollars in tax breaks and incentives for renewable energy and conservation efforts.

Republican opponents said the legislation ignored the need to produce more domestic oil, natural gas and coal. One GOP lawmaker bemoaned "the pure venom ... against the oil and gas industry."

The House passed the tax provisions by a vote of 221-189. Earlier it had approved, 241-172, a companion energy package aimed at boosting energy efficiency and expanding use of biofuels, wind power and other renewable energy sources.

"We are turning to the future," said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

The two bills, passed at an unusual Saturday session as lawmakers prepared to leave town for their monthlong summer recess, will be merged with legislation passed by the Senate in June.

On one of the most contentious and heavily lobbied issues, the House voted to require investor-owned electric utilities nationwide to generate at least 15 percent of their electricity from renewable energy sources such as wind or biofuels.

The utilities and business interests had argued aggressively against the federal renewables mandate, saying it would raise electricity prices in regions of the country that do not have abundant wind energy. But environmentalists said the requirement will spur investments in renewable fuels and help address global warming as utilities use less coal.

"This will save consumers money," said Rep. Tom Udall, D-N.M., the provision's co-sponsor, maintaining utilities will have to use less high-priced natural gas. He noted that nearly half the states already have a renewable energy mandate for utilities, and if utilities can't find enough renewable they can meet part of the requirement through power conservation measures.

The bill also calls for more stringent energy efficiency standards for appliances and lighting and incentives for building more energy-efficient "green" buildings. It would authorize special bonds for cities and counties to reduce energy demand.

Pelosi, D-Calif., said it was essential to commit to renewable energy while reducing reliance on fossil fuels. Doing so, she said, will help address global warming and make the country more energy-independent.

"It's about our children, about our future, the world in which they live," Pelosi said.

Democrats avoided a nasty fight by ignoring ? at least for the time being ? calls for automakers to make vehicles more fuel-efficient. Cars, sport utility vehicles and small trucks use most of the country's oil and produce almost one-third of the carbon dioxide emissions linked to global warming.

That issue, as well as whether to require huge increases in the use of corn-based ethanol as a substitute for gasoline, were left to be thrashed out when the House bill is merged with energy legislation the Senate passed in June.

Majority Leader Steny Hoyer of Maryland said he was confident the final bill that will go to President Bush will contain a significant increase in automobile fuel economy requirements.

"This is a historic turn away from a fossil fuel agenda toward renewable energy. It's been a long time in coming," said Rep. Ed Markey, D-Mass., in an interview. Markey abandoned efforts to get an auto mileage provision into the bill, but also expressed confidence one will be added during negotiations with the Senate. The Senate in passing energy legislation in June called for a 40 percent increase auto mileage to 35 mpg by 2020.

Republicans said the House bill did nothing to increase domestic oil and natural gas production or take further advantage of coal, the country's most abundant domestic energy resource.

"There's a war going on against energy from fossil fuels," said Rep. Ralph Hall, R-Texas. "I can't understand the pure venom felt against the oil and gas industry."

Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas, said the bill was "a political exercise" to promote "pet projects, ... pet ideas." He predicted it "isn't going anywhere" because President Bush will veto it if it gets to his desk.

The White House indicated President Bush might veto the bill if he gets it saying it makes "no serious attempts to increase our energy security or address high energy costs" and would harm domestic oil and gas production.

The bill would repeal for oil companies a tax breaks given in 2004 to help domestic manufacturers compete against foreign companies, and another tax break pertaining to income from foreign oil production. Critics of the two tax provisions called them loopholes that the industry had taken advantage of.

The House-passed bill also includes an array of loan guarantees, federal grants and tax breaks for alternative energy programs. They include building biomass factories, research into making ethanol from wood chips and prairie grasses and producing better batteries for hybrid gas-electric automobiles.

The legislation would end a tax break for buying large SUVs, known as the "Hummer tax loophole" because it allows people who buy some of the most expensive SUVs to write off much of the cost.
"

It would be nice if that subsidy for SUVs were finally closed, but I think they should go further and end the 3 ton loophole on the gas guzzler tax as well. Despite the limitations it's nice to see progress finally being made.

Also in this article, "republicans" claimed that coal is the most abundant domestic energy source. This is clearly false, as sunlight and wind are the most abundant domestic energy sources, we just haven't built the infrastructure to exploit them. They probably meant that coal is the most abundantly used energy source, which is more accurate. Unfortunately there is no link to communicate this error to the author. If they're going to include an incorrect statement, they should at least quote someone specific who said it instead of a group.

If they're concerned about promoting domestic energy sources, the logical course of action would be to enact an import tariff on foreign oil and fossil fuels. This would boost all domestically produced energy, renewable and non. Of course such a tax increase would have to be balanced by a tax decrease, such as eliminating the gas tax and exempting the first 40k in income from payroll and income tax.

 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Bullsh!t -
"It's about our children, about our future, the world in which they live," Pelosi said.

Get prepared for increased gas/electric/nat gas prices if this is enacted. Woot woot - way to go dems!

:thumbsdown:
Versus the last 4 years of war under Bush which have brought us...increased gas, electric and natural gas prices.

:laugh: Nice try.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Republicans said the House bill did nothing to increase domestic oil and natural gas production or take further advantage of coal, the country's most abundant domestic energy resource.

Of course it doesn't you twits. The idea is to move away from and eventually completely off of fuel sources that cannot be replenished without waiting a few million years.

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Bullsh!t -
"It's about our children, about our future, the world in which they live," Pelosi said.

Get prepared for increased gas/electric/nat gas prices if this is enacted. Woot woot - way to go dems!

:thumbsdown:
Versus the last 4 years of war under Bush which have brought us...increased gas, electric and natural gas prices.

:laugh: Nice try.

And you want to pay more? :genius; :roll:
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Bullsh!t -
"It's about our children, about our future, the world in which they live," Pelosi said.

Get prepared for increased gas/electric/nat gas prices if this is enacted. Woot woot - way to go dems!

:thumbsdown:

The goal of energy policy should not be to keep fossil fuel prices low...that's a losing game no matter how you look at it, anything that moves us away from our ridiculous usage of fossil fuels seems like a good thing in my book. Pelosi is right, it's about the future, not how much you have to pay for gas tomorrow. That's the problem with Republicans, they seem to be terminally short sighted.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Bullsh!t -
"It's about our children, about our future, the world in which they live," Pelosi said.

Get prepared for increased gas/electric/nat gas prices if this is enacted. Woot woot - way to go dems!

:thumbsdown:

The goal of energy policy should not be to keep fossil fuel prices low...that's a losing game no matter how you look at it, anything that moves us away from our ridiculous usage of fossil fuels seems like a good thing in my book. Pelosi is right, it's about the future, not how much you have to pay for gas tomorrow. That's the problem with Republicans, they seem to be terminally short sighted.

:laugh: Hook line and sinker! :laugh:

You really think she's doing this for the kids? and future? :laugh: Pssttt... It's about taxes and the environment religion.

Oh, and BTW, I've said it before and I stand by it to this day. I'm probably the most "green" Conservative Republican I know, so don't even attempt the smears.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
We are going to be energy dependent, but we are not going to do it be using our own sources of energy :confused:

Every barrel of oil we get from our own sources is one less we have to import from another country. We?re all about ?Made in America? except when it comes to oil.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,126
9,260
136
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Bullsh!t -
"It's about our children, about our future, the world in which they live," Pelosi said.

Get prepared for increased gas/electric/nat gas prices if this is enacted. Woot woot - way to go dems!

:thumbsdown:
Versus the last 4 years of war under Bush which have brought us...increased gas, electric and natural gas prices.

:laugh: Nice try.

That's a reason to make it worse? :confused:
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,197
4
76
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Bullsh!t -
"It's about our children, about our future, the world in which they live," Pelosi said.

Get prepared for increased gas/electric/nat gas prices if this is enacted. Woot woot - way to go dems!

:thumbsdown:
Versus the last 4 years of war under Bush which have brought us...increased gas, electric and natural gas prices.

:laugh: Nice try.

And you want to pay more? :genius; :roll:

The problem is you have nothing to base your argument on. Under Bush we've had numerous tax cuts and incentives for energy companies, yet we've had record energy prices. What evidence is there that removing those tax cuts and incentives will increase the cost on the commodity they don't put the price on? At least not directly. Oil pricing is a screwed up system and tax cuts and incentives only do so much. The Bush incentives were also crap. Lower taxes? Sure. Give incentives? Why the hell not! Give massive subsidies to the energy industry? You better believe it.

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
We are going to be energy dependent, but we are not going to do it be using our own sources of energy :confused:

Every barrel of oil we get from our own sources is one less we have to import from another country. We?re all about ?Made in America? except when it comes to oil.

Sadly, even if we opened all of our sources, it's more like every barrel of oil we get from our own sources, one more day we put off our increase. Projects, such as ANWR, were never going to decrease our demand for foreign oil -- only slow down our increase. The demand on foreign oil can't decrease without the decrease in the demand for oil.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Bullsh!t -
"It's about our children, about our future, the world in which they live," Pelosi said.

Get prepared for increased gas/electric/nat gas prices if this is enacted. Woot woot - way to go dems!

:thumbsdown:

The goal of energy policy should not be to keep fossil fuel prices low...that's a losing game no matter how you look at it, anything that moves us away from our ridiculous usage of fossil fuels seems like a good thing in my book. Pelosi is right, it's about the future, not how much you have to pay for gas tomorrow. That's the problem with Republicans, they seem to be terminally short sighted.

:laugh: Hook line and sinker! :laugh:

You really think she's doing this for the kids? and future? :laugh: Pssttt... It's about taxes and the environment religion.

Oh, and BTW, I've said it before and I stand by it to this day. I'm probably the most "green" Conservative Republican I know, so don't even attempt the smears.

I'm not judging her motives, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. Whether or not the Democrats are doing this for the right reasons (and I have my doubts) the fact is that we can't drill or mine our way away from fossil fuels. :laugh: all you want, the fact is that sooner or later we'll have to move away from fossil fuels...putting it off with tax breaks and incentives FOR fossil fuel companies is not going to do us very much good in the long run.

And this isn't about your personal behavior, it's about national policy. I see no need to smear your personal actions when it comes to the environment when your views on environmental policy as so short sighted.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
We are going to be energy dependent, but we are not going to do it be using our own sources of energy :confused:

Every barrel of oil we get from our own sources is one less we have to import from another country. We?re all about ?Made in America? except when it comes to oil.

Think long term.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Bullsh!t -
"It's about our children, about our future, the world in which they live," Pelosi said.

Get prepared for increased gas/electric/nat gas prices if this is enacted. Woot woot - way to go dems!

:thumbsdown:

The goal of energy policy should not be to keep fossil fuel prices low...that's a losing game no matter how you look at it, anything that moves us away from our ridiculous usage of fossil fuels seems like a good thing in my book. Pelosi is right, it's about the future, not how much you have to pay for gas tomorrow. That's the problem with Republicans, they seem to be terminally short sighted.

:laugh: Hook line and sinker! :laugh:

You really think she's doing this for the kids? and future? :laugh: Pssttt... It's about taxes and the environment religion.

Oh, and BTW, I've said it before and I stand by it to this day. I'm probably the most "green" Conservative Republican I know, so don't even attempt the smears.

I'm not judging her motives, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. Whether or not the Democrats are doing this for the right reasons (and I have my doubts) the fact is that we can't drill or mine our way away from fossil fuels. :laugh: all you want, the fact is that sooner or later we'll have to move away from fossil fuels...putting it off with tax breaks and incentives FOR fossil fuel companies is not going to do us very much good in the long run.

And this isn't about your personal behavior, it's about national policy. I see no need to smear your personal actions when it comes to the environment when your views on environmental policy as so short sighted.

Nowhere did I say anything about policy. I stated what will happen due to this law(if passed). As for policy, I believe we must utilize our own resources better. Yes, we need to move away from Oil, but not out of spite which it looks like the left is doing.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: Hacp
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
We are going to be energy dependent, but we are not going to do it be using our own sources of energy :confused:

Every barrel of oil we get from our own sources is one less we have to import from another country. We?re all about ?Made in America? except when it comes to oil.

Think long term.

Oil pumped from America is NOT GOING TO AMERICANS.. jesus christ.. you think Oil Companies are philanthropists?

They sell it to the highest bidder
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
The only thing this does is raise the price for the consumer and give the Government a bit more money to waste.

As much left versus right arguing there is on this subject there really is a relatively easy solution that won't be as painful to the consumer AND would get much better results.

First, Congress should form some sort of NASA type agency whose goal is to research alternative energy with a set goal. Treat it as ambitiously and fund it like the Apollo program. There should be very little political influence on the agency (amusingly, I think this is the most "impossible" part) Congress should just give them whatever budget they need and let the scientists and engineers work. I would bet a months pay that with they could reduce our oil dependancy by at least 10% in 3-5 years.

Take hybrid cars for instance. How much R&D are automakers really putting into hybrid vehicles? We have after market places that can make some cars a plug in hybrids that get around 100 miles per gallon for the first 50 miles of your daily commute, which is less than the avg commute for most Americans. The latest I have heard is that automakers are 2-3 years behind what some tiny (in comparison) after market companies are doing right now.

Secondly, are the right now issues. American consumers are not going to consume less. Raising the cost of fuel or energy is just going to leave them with a little less money they would have spent elsewhere in the economy. Instead of focusing on raising taxes on oil and electric companies we should focus our attention on new technology that is already in its infancy.

We could have solved this problem 20 years ago if we actually tried. Its absurd to think that we can't do it now.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Bullsh!t -
"It's about our children, about our future, the world in which they live," Pelosi said.

Get prepared for increased gas/electric/nat gas prices if this is enacted.

Woot woot - way to go dems!

:thumbsdown:

Yes, Woot woot - way to go dems! :thumbsup:

Even higher prices will wake the sleeping giant up and rise up against your hero buddies.

Speaking of your buddies, they just told me they have a new goal now thanks to this

"Six for Kicks".



 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,863
2,697
136
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Bullsh!t -
"It's about our children, about our future, the world in which they live," Pelosi said.

Get prepared for increased gas/electric/nat gas prices if this is enacted.

Woot woot - way to go dems!

:thumbsdown:

Yes, Woot woot - way to go dems! :thumbsup:

Even higher prices will wake the sleeping giant up and rise up against your hero buddies.

Speaking of your buddies, they just told me they have a new goal now thanks to this

"Six for Kicks".

Oohhhh, another prediction? Still waiting for "drive for five" by Christmas of 06........

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Bullsh!t -
"It's about our children, about our future, the world in which they live," Pelosi said.

Get prepared for increased gas/electric/nat gas prices if this is enacted.

Woot woot - way to go dems!

:thumbsdown:

Yes, Woot woot - way to go dems! :thumbsup:

Even higher prices will wake the sleeping giant up and rise up against your hero buddies.

Speaking of your buddies, they just told me they have a new goal now thanks to this

"Six for Kicks".

Oohhhh, another prediction? Still waiting for "drive for five" by Christmas of 06........

Yeah, I just paid 2.23/gallon the other day. (E-85) Long way to go for 5 or even 6 unless the Dems continue down this path.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Bullsh!t -
"It's about our children, about our future, the world in which they live," Pelosi said.

Get prepared for increased gas/electric/nat gas prices if this is enacted.

Woot woot - way to go dems!

:thumbsdown:

Yes, Woot woot - way to go dems! :thumbsup:

Even higher prices will wake the sleeping giant up and rise up against your hero buddies.

Speaking of your buddies, they just told me they have a new goal now thanks to this

"Six for Kicks".

Oohhhh, another prediction? Still waiting for "drive for five" by Christmas of 06........

Yeah, I just paid 2.23/gallon the other day. (E-85) Long way to go for 5 or even 6 unless the Dems continue down this path.

You live in Iowa, where ethanol fuels are extremely subsidized by the government. It's a ridiculous idea that that represents any kind of market price, or that it will continue for very long even WITH ridiculous levels of government funds.

Ever wonder why 89 octane gas with ethanol seems to always be the cheapest at the pump in good old Skankeny? I'll give you a hint, it's not because it's the cheapest to make. And that's in Iowa, land of the corn...which is right next to Nebraska, where I'm not convinced they have anything BESIDES corn. What a brilliant solution :roll:
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Bullsh!t -
"It's about our children, about our future, the world in which they live," Pelosi said.

Get prepared for increased gas/electric/nat gas prices if this is enacted.

Woot woot - way to go dems!

:thumbsdown:

Yes, Woot woot - way to go dems! :thumbsup:

Even higher prices will wake the sleeping giant up and rise up against your hero buddies.

Speaking of your buddies, they just told me they have a new goal now thanks to this

"Six for Kicks".

Oohhhh, another prediction? Still waiting for "drive for five" by Christmas of 06........

Yeah, I just paid 2.23/gallon the other day. (E-85) Long way to go for 5 or even 6 unless the Dems continue down this path.

You live in Iowa, where ethanol fuels are extremely subsidized by the government. It's a ridiculous idea that that represents any kind of market price, or that it will continue for very long even WITH ridiculous levels of government funds.

Ever wonder why 89 octane gas with ethanol seems to always be the cheapest at the pump in good old Skankeny? I'll give you a hint, it's not because it's the cheapest to make. And that's in Iowa, land of the corn...which is right next to Nebraska, where I'm not convinced they have anything BESIDES corn. What a brilliant solution :roll:

89 octane (10% ethanol blend) has a tax reduction -that's why it's cheaper. E-85 has a similar deal with some othe incentives thrown in right now. It won't be long before those go away but by then our ethanol capacity will be such that the price may actually stabalize and come down a bit.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Bullsh!t -
"It's about our children, about our future, the world in which they live," Pelosi said.

Get prepared for increased gas/electric/nat gas prices if this is enacted.

Woot woot - way to go dems!

:thumbsdown:

Yes, Woot woot - way to go dems! :thumbsup:

Even higher prices will wake the sleeping giant up and rise up against your hero buddies.

Speaking of your buddies, they just told me they have a new goal now thanks to this

"Six for Kicks".

Oohhhh, another prediction? Still waiting for "drive for five" by Christmas of 06........

Yeah, I just paid 2.23/gallon the other day. (E-85) Long way to go for 5 or even 6 unless the Dems continue down this path.

You live in Iowa, where ethanol fuels are extremely subsidized by the government. It's a ridiculous idea that that represents any kind of market price, or that it will continue for very long even WITH ridiculous levels of government funds.

Ever wonder why 89 octane gas with ethanol seems to always be the cheapest at the pump in good old Skankeny? I'll give you a hint, it's not because it's the cheapest to make. And that's in Iowa, land of the corn...which is right next to Nebraska, where I'm not convinced they have anything BESIDES corn. What a brilliant solution :roll:

89 octane (10% ethanol blend) has a tax reduction -that's why it's cheaper. E-85 has a similar deal with some othe incentives thrown in right now. It won't be long before those go away but by then our ethanol capacity will be such that the price may actually stabalize and come down a bit.

I understand the concept of tax incentives to help spur market growth, but I'm not sure corn based ethanol is the answer...it takes nearly the same amount of energy to GROW and process the corn as you get from it as ethanol. I suppose there is a benefit to growing our own fuel, but it just seems like too little to make an impact in the long run.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I understand the concept of tax incentives to help spur market growth, but I'm not sure corn based ethanol is the answer...it takes nearly the same amount of energy to GROW and process the corn as you get from it as ethanol. I suppose there is a benefit to growing our own fuel, but it just seems like too little to make an impact in the long run.

Only if you believe Pimentel. The other reports suggest 1.2 to 1.56(MSU Ethanol Energy Balance Study) times the energy and it's increasing all the time with new technologies. Biodeisel is even better than ethanol in it's energy balance. But all this might be better discussed in a different thread. :)