Originally posted by: Wreckem
Originally posted by: BigDH01
There is no shortage of skilled American workers. As far as scientists go, we overproduce them. There is a shortage of cheap skilled American labor. This whole thing stems from a report from the NSF in the 80s I believe, and companies have continued to manipulate this perception in order to secure more H1Bs to depress wages.
Is that why most schools PhD programs in Science, Math, and Engineering are comprised of mostly foreign students? Some programs are over 75% foriegners. In Graduate programs in general americans are becoming the minority.
I'm at an engineering school, and most engineering, science, and math undergrads are American. My fiance is graduating with her degree in ChE and every group member I've ever seen her with has been American. For her, it's not worth it to go to grad school as she can get a job right now. I also know a ton of American EEs and CprEs. They aren't going to grad school for engineering because they don't need to. Career-wise, it's basically equivalent to have 2 years of work experience or a Master's. If you aren't going into academia or switching careers, what's the point?
I graduated with a degree in a biological science and I regret it to this day. Had I known
what kind of crappy pay most scientists usually receive, I would've chosen something else. I think many Americans aren't going further in science because there is little economic benefit in doing so. In fact, the only microbiologists I knew that went to grad school did so because they had few other options. It was either take a low paying lab rat job now or get further schooling and hope conditions improve. If you want more American scientists, you need to offer them more than what your average businessman, salesman, or, in the case of my single biological offer post grad, garbageman makes. If you see more foreigners in a program, it's probably because the Americans who would've applied saw the writing on the wall and found careers elsewhere (what myself and many of my fellow graduates did). If we trust the law of supply and demand, then the reason that people are getting science degrees and changing fields due to depressed wages is either because there is no demand for these laborers or that there is already a large pool of labor. Companies are claiming that the demand is there so the second seems to be true. I think companies would like to keep it that way, and this is why they always claim shortage.
Granted, my case was a biological science and not computer science, but I can't imagine the situation is that much different. I ended up taking a lot of Comp Sci classes before graduating in an attempt to salvage some of my education, and most of my classmates were American. The cyberwar competition we had? Most contestants were American. The Linux Club? Mostly American. The Information Assurance grad degree I'm receiving this month? My classmates were almost entirely American.
I highly doubt that Americans are becoming a minority in grad programs. Even here, most engineering, science, and math grad students are still American. I'm not denying that there are a large number of foreign students, but they certainly aren't the majority. In the lab where I worked as an undergrad (microbio - a reputation for having a large number of international students), there were 2 foreign students out of 11.
Listen, I don't think it really matters either way. As more people both domestically and internationally get important skills, American wages will be depressed. Either more foreigners come here with H1Bs or those jobs are simply shipped overseas. I just wish these companies would call it what it is. There are plenty of Americans to do the job, just not enough willing to do it as cheaply as they'd like. At least if they were honest, maybe American and international workers would attempt to fix the system by ensuring that wages move up to meet the American standard and not down to meet the international standard (maybe international unions). As it stands, the companies simply create mistrust and contempt between domestic and foreign workers ensuring that the process of global wage arbitrage will continue. End the "There aren't enough Americans to do the job" BS.