House Passes 1/6 Commission

[Pens1566]

Yeah, it's SOP to wipe mobile devices or reset to factory defaults. The determination of what is/isn't covered is largely up to the department in question. DoD devices are wiped/reset on leaving the position. Or, even if you fail login like 10 times.

Having said that, these devices SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN WIPED as they were legal records that were requested by various oversight bodies. Someone used the standard procedures to get around that.

 

[zinfamous]

So that at least may be SOP. I know I've always wiped anything that was ever associated with personnel that left unless I was told otherwise.

no, not in their capacity as federal employees. Just not done.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

no, not in their capacity as federal employees. Just not done.

What are you talking about? I'm referring to govt issued devices (phones, laptops, etc). Those are routinely wiped once someone no longer works in their position anymore, unless otherwise required.

 

[zinfamous]

What are you talking about? I'm referring to govt issued devices (phones, laptops, etc). Those are routinely wiped once someone no longer works in their position anymore, unless otherwise required.

communications that are saved on the phone, like texts, still have to be vetted for archives. It's law. The general policy is that gov't records can be identified relatively quickly based on the status of the individual producing the records, or the office of such individuals. And the fact that they are gov't issued phones and equipment, nothing on there is ever owned by the individual anyway. The possible handlers that may have wiped this stuff knew what they were doing.

....I think anything related to POTUS detail is pretty obviously required for preservation. This is a very standard, simple law that we all have to deal with and re-train every year. There is absolutely no way that any of these people didn't know what they were doing.

And now the Pentagon? Holy shit.

 

[fskimospy]

What are you talking about? I'm referring to govt issued devices (phones, laptops, etc). Those are routinely wiped once someone no longer works in their position anymore, unless otherwise required.

You’re right they are wiped by IT people but those same IT people are also supposed to preserve any federal records created in the course of use for that device. It is beyond belief that there were no federal records on those devices so if they weren’t preserved then it was illegal to wipe them.

 

[thilanliyan]

I'm sure there were very computer and device literate people in the Trump Administration.

It was probably Baron of the Cyber.

 

[fskimospy]

I for one am just shocked that Republicans haven’t said more about these clear breaches of federal document retention policies. I swear about six years ago or so they were apoplectic about stuff like this.

 

[dank69]

I for one am just shocked that Republicans haven’t said more about these clear breaches of federal document retention policies. I swear about six years ago or so they were apoplectic about stuff like this.

Hillary got away with it so it's only fair.

 

[fskimospy]

Hillary got away with it so it's only fair.

Well they keep saying she should be imprisoned. By this logic shouldn’t ‘only fair’ indicate these people should also be imprisoned? Maybe Jared can get his dad’s old cell.

 

[Pens1566]

Well they keep saying she should be imprisoned. By this logic shouldn’t ‘only fair’ indicate these people should also be imprisoned? Maybe Jared can get his dad’s old cell.

It's different because she has a blue vagina and eats little kids in the basement of a building that has no basement.

 

[NWRMidnight]

Hillary got away with it so it's only fair.

This isn't entirely accurate for the context of this discussion. What Hillary did was erase emails on her PRIVATE non government server. Her "crime" was sending official confidential government emails thru her private server. As far as I recall, she didn't wipe or erase emails on official government servers.

We are not talking about private phones here, even though any of them may have sent official texts on them, we are talking about government owned phones that these people had to turn in when their jobs ended.

It's different because she has a blue vagina and eats little kids in the basement of a building that has no basement.

See above.

 

[zinfamous]

It's different because she has a blue vagina and eats little kids in the basement of a building that has no basement.

You know I wonder if the Qnutters misheard the prophecy of their Oracle from the beginning: maybe the pedo-trafficking sex dungeon is actually in the basement of the Alamo?

 

[fskimospy]

This isn't entirely accurate for the context of this discussion. What Hillary did was erase emails on her PRIVATE non government server. Her "crime" was sending official confidential government emails thru her private server. As far as I recall, she didn't wipe or erase emails on official government servers.

We are not talking about private phones here, even though any of them may have sent official texts on them, we are talking about government owned phones that these people had to turn in when their jobs ended.


See above.

The storage of government emails on private servers was the primary issue, yes. Of course when Jared and Ivanka did the exact same thing a year or so later nobody cared.

The main thing here is that people who pretended to be outraged over Clinton's violation of the federal records act are now ignoring far more serious violations of it, and violations potentially as part of an attempted coup. This of course is because they never cared about this to begin with, which was why I was always saying the media did not have to pretend to believe them when they lied about caring.

 

[Pens1566]

This isn't entirely accurate for the context of this discussion. What Hillary did was erase emails on her PRIVATE non government server. Her "crime" was sending official confidential government emails thru her private server. As far as I recall, she didn't wipe or erase emails on official government servers.

We are not talking about private phones here, even though any of them may have sent official texts on them, we are talking about government owned phones that these people had to turn in when their jobs ended.


See above.

Oh, I'm well aware of her alleged situation considering I've spent all of 25+ years dealing with the type of information she was accused of handling inappropriately. And it's also why I know that it's absolute weapons grade horse shit that anyone blame her in any way.

Which is why I was only making a ridiculous joke ... because it's a ridiculous situation.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Huh? Of course not, these would be turned over to an IT person who would wipe phones as a matter of course unless they were told otherwise. Possible stuff inside the pentagon/WH works differently than the rest of the military but I kinda doubt it.

Absolutely not. I work for the federal government in a position that has me handle sensitive documents and I can tell you with 100% certainty that no one wipes equipment as a matter of course. Destroying federal records is a felony, and it is taken very seriously. You MUST have the documentation that any federal records on that device has been properly archived before you can wipe any device. There is forms that has to be filled out that show that the records have been archived, or that the device has been checked and no federal records are on the device, before you are allowed to wipe the device. Those forms must be signed by someone. So, someone is responsible.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

communications that are saved on the phone, like texts, still have to be vetted for archives. It's law. The general policy is that gov't records can be identified relatively quickly based on the status of the individual producing the records, or the office of such individuals. And the fact that they are gov't issued phones and equipment, nothing on there is ever owned by the individual anyway. The possible handlers that may have wiped this stuff knew what they were doing.

....I think anything related to POTUS detail is pretty obviously required for preservation. This is a very standard, simple law that we all have to deal with and re-train every year. There is absolutely no way that any of these people didn't know what they were doing.

And now the Pentagon? Holy shit.

You’re right they are wiped by IT people but those same IT people are also supposed to preserve any federal records created in the course of use for that device. It is beyond belief that there were no federal records on those devices so if they weren’t preserved then it was illegal to wipe them.

Absolutely not. I work for the federal government in a position that has me handle sensitive documents and I can tell you with 100% certainty that no one wipes equipment as a matter of course. Destroying federal records is a felony, and it is taken very seriously. You MUST have the documentation that any federal records on that device has been properly archived before you can wipe any device. There is forms that has to be filled out that show that the records have been archived, or that the device has been checked and no federal records are on the device, before you are allowed to wipe the device. Those forms must be signed by someone. So, someone is responsible.

I think there's some confusion floating around here. Govt workers aren't supposed to store 'govt documents' or 'federal records' on a phone. If they are, that's wrong, because those systems aren't cleared for storing govt documents and federal records. Accessing email on a govt phone is different from 'documents' because the email system stores the data, not the phone. That shit's just an interface between the user and the "secure" system.

Unless things have changed dramatically since I was in (which is entirely possible), texts don't get to be considered 'govt records' unless someone suspects you've been talking about shit you shouldn't over text. Phones are supposed to be wipeable because you aren't supposed to be sending sensitive shit over them. Again, unless there's different rules for different areas within the govt, which is possible.

Citation: spent years sysadding in the govt, for the govt, including dealing with BB's. They were wiped with regularity. Only time we didn't immediately upon someone not being authorized to have one is if they died.

 

[fskimospy]

I think there's some confusion floating around here. Govt workers aren't supposed to store 'govt documents' or 'federal records' on a phone. If they are, that's wrong, because those systems aren't cleared for storing govt documents and federal records. Accessing email on a govt phone is different from 'documents' because the email system stores the data, not the phone. That shit's just an interface between the user and the "secure" system.

Unless things have changed dramatically since I was in (which is entirely possible), texts don't get to be considered 'govt records' unless someone suspects you've been talking about shit you shouldn't over text. Phones are supposed to be wipeable because you aren't supposed to be sending sensitive shit over them. Again, unless there's different rules for different areas within the govt, which is possible.

Citation: spent years sysadding in the govt, for the govt, including dealing with BB's. They were wiped with regularity. Only time we didn't immediately upon someone not being authorized to have one is if they died.

Here is the definition of federal record and it definitely includes texts:

44 U.S. Code § 3301 - Definition of records

www.law.cornell.edu

Documenting Your Public Service

Introduction This guide provides all Government employees, including senior agency officials and political appointees, with information regarding their responsibilities for managing Federal records. Knowledge of this guidance and careful advance planning will aid employees throughout their...

www.archives.gov

Electronic messages, including email, social media messages, instant messages, and texts, are Federal records if they meet the definition mentioned above.

So basically any text that was part of the conduct of federal business is a federal record and must be preserved at least temporarily.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Well the good news is we already have Alex Jones’ 1/6 texts.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

So basically any text that was part of the conduct of federal business is a federal record and must be preserved at least temporarily.

And how long is that? And are there regulations as to what kind of federal business can take place over text, or non-(easily)preserveable media?

 

[Pens1566]

Here is the definition of federal record and it definitely includes texts:

44 U.S. Code § 3301 - Definition of records

www.law.cornell.edu

Documenting Your Public Service

Introduction This guide provides all Government employees, including senior agency officials and political appointees, with information regarding their responsibilities for managing Federal records. Knowledge of this guidance and careful advance planning will aid employees throughout their...

www.archives.gov

So basically any text that was part of the conduct of federal business is a federal record and must be preserved at least temporarily.

Key part being "part of the conduct of federal business". And even then, individual agencies/Departments are allowed to define policies regarding the creation/retention/deletion of data. I can tell you that DoD systems/devices are returned to IT upon separation and wiped and re-imaged. And that's SES level, not the guy tracking inventory at a weather station in Alaska.

 

[fskimospy]

And how long is that? And are there regulations as to what kind of federal business can take place over text, or non-(easily)preserveable media?

From my (limited) understanding whoever you turned your phone over to should have had procedures in place to ensure the retention of federal records. Since presumably you weren't a senior official most of your records would probably be deemed temporary ones and would be eventually destroyed but even temporary retention periods have to be retained for a pretty long time.

As far as federal business that takes place over non-federal systems the individual engaging in the creation of that record has to forward it to a government system within 20 days.

 

[Pens1566]

And how long is that? And are there regulations as to what kind of federal business can take place over text, or non-(easily)preserveable media?

Yeah, this is the gray area right here. Agencies/Departments will have specific policies about what things you can do with govt devices for just this purpose. Additionally, all "official" records are to be placed/shared into centrally managed repos (sharepoint, whatever) so this exact scenario isn't an issue. Like someone else already said, email isn't an issue as it's server based in this case and backed up/stored centrally.

 

[fskimospy]

Key part being "part of the conduct of federal business". And even then, individual agencies/Departments are allowed to define policies regarding the creation/retention/deletion of data. I can tell you that DoD systems/devices are returned to IT upon separation and wiped and re-imaged. And that's SES level, not the guy tracking inventory at a weather station in Alaska.

Individual agencies are allowed to define policies but they all must be approved by the national archives. While the devices are wiped and re-imaged I'm sure, every one is still subject to federal records policy and if they weren't being checked for those records that's a violation of federal law as far as I can see.

Regardless, the idea that none of the communications of the secret service or senior officials in or around 1/6 were federal records beggars belief and I'm not aware of any policy that would permit them to be destroyed so quickly.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yeah, this is the gray area right here. Agencies/Departments will have specific policies about what things you can do with govt devices for just this purpose. Additionally, all "official" records are to be placed/shared into centrally managed repos (sharepoint, whatever) so this exact scenario isn't an issue. Like someone else already said, email isn't an issue as it's server based in this case and backed up/stored centrally.

Right, so, if they weren't supposed to be conducting official business over text, it's not exactly a crisis that the texts were wiped when the person left, as it's SOP. Unless it's not, then someone fucked the coconut.

 

[fskimospy]

Right, so, if they weren't supposed to be conducting official business over text, it's not exactly a crisis that the texts were wiped when the person left, as it's SOP. Unless it's not, then someone fucked the coconut.

So the claim is that the agencies properly evaluated the devices in question, determined no texts or other messages on them were federal records, and then wiped them in accordance with policy?

If so, why hasn't any agency made that claim?