House panel cuts Amtrak funding, eliminates "transportation enhancement" funding. Enjoy the smog.

[Fausto]

Yeah....funnel more money into highways....it's helping so much already. :|

I can't say I'm all that upset about the Amtrack thing since it's been a......er.....train wreck since it's inception, but I am really, really pissed off that the $600 million for trans. alternatives is getting nuked. That's a relatively tiny amount of money that has provided some nice tangible benfits to communities over the years. Enjoy that local walking/cycling path? Happy that your kid has a safe route to bike to school so he doesn't become a blob like his classmates? Odds are this is where at least some of the funding for those kinds of things came from.

Information of what Transportation Enhancements are all about.

Transportation Enhancements (TE) are twelve different community focused activities defined in TEA-21. The twelve activities are:

1. Pedestrian and Bicycle Facilities
2. Pedestrian and Bicycle Safety and Education Activities
3. Acquisition of Scenic or Historic Easements and Sites
4. Scenic or Historic Highway Programs, Including Tourist and Welcome Centers
5. Landscaping and Scenic Beautification
6. Historic Preservation
7. Rehabilitation and Operation of Historic Transportation Buildings, Structures, or Facilities
8. Preservation of Abandoned Railway Corridors
9. Control and Removal of Outdoor Advertising
10. Archaeological Planning and Research
11. Mitigation of Highway Runoff and Provision of Wildlife Connectivity
12. Establishment of Transportation Museums

A vote by the full Appropriations Committee may happen on Monday, 7/21. If this pisses you off, contact your representative. Call your Representative's Washington DC office. Reach any Rep by calling 202-224-3121 and asking to be transferred to the Rep?s office. If you don? t know who your Rep is, find them using the League?s new service by clicking the 'elected officials' tab, entering your zip code, then clicking 'biography' for phone numbers.

 

[freegeeks]

Stupid Euro Question


Is Amtrak a private company or owned by the govt??

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: freegeeks
Is Amtrak a private company or owned by the govt??

Amtrak is a for-profit federal corporation that has never made money in its 30-year history. It has $4 billion in debt, and the Bush administration has proposed dismantling it over the next several years instead of continuing to subsidize it.

 

[Toasthead]

Amtrak Sucks. If we keep giving them money they will continue to need it.

Shut them down.

Trains suck.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Amtrak Sucks. If we keep giving them money they will continue to need it.

Shut them down.

Trains suck.

Read the rest of the damn ariticle. There's more going on than just Amtrak.

God, you guys have the attention span of a cracked-out hamster sometimes.

 

[beer]

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Amtrak Sucks. If we keep giving them money they will continue to need it.

Shut them down.

Trains suck.

Trains do not suck. Long-haul commuter trains suck. Regional rail is very, very useful and probably the most important way to relieve traffic congestion in urban or regional areas. Simply because going by bus still leaves you stuck in traffic as if you were driving, usually in a more uncomfortable place than you would be if you were in your car. Light rail solves many urban transit problems, and commuter rail works for regional transit, such as between big metropoltan hubs. Amtrak shouldn't be running long-haul service, but it shouldn't shut down either. A lot of their commuter routes in the DC area, for example, are absolutely critical to prevent traffic problems from exploding even worse than they are now.

 

[beer]

Originally posted by: Elemental007

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Amtrak Sucks. If we keep giving them money they will continue to need it.

Shut them down.

Trains suck.

Trains do not suck. Long-haul commuter trains suck. Regional rail is very, very useful and probably the most important way to relieve traffic congestion in urban or regional areas. Simply because going by bus still leaves you stuck in traffic as if you were driving, usually in a more uncomfortable place than you would be if you were in your car. Light rail solves many urban transit problems, and commuter rail works for regional transit, such as between big metropoltan hubs. Amtrak shouldn't be running long-haul service, but it shouldn't shut down either. A lot of their commuter routes in the DC area, for example, are absolutely critical to prevent traffic problems from exploding even worse than they are now.

I'd like to add that I'm all for nuking the long-haul service, though. Greyhound does the exact same thing, serving more or less the exact same routes with far greater flexibility and more frequently, and does so fairly profitabily. Amtrak trains are just about as slow as the buses are anyways.

 

[Ladies Man]

Think money grows on trees???

If I was running the show I'd cut so many programs it would make your head spin.
I'm sure for that one that's cut there are probably 4 other programs that do the same damn thing and take up just as much tax payer dollars.

 

[kranky]

From the article:

With congestion rising on U.S. roads, "highway funding is the main priority"

That's like saying "There has been an increase in arson cases, so we need more firemen." Wouldn't it be better to stop the fires from starting? In this case, it would mean taking steps to avoid more highway congestion, which rails-to-trails, and passenger trains, can help with.

 

[beer]

Originally posted by: Ladies Man
Think money grows on trees???

If I was running the show I'd cut so many programs it would make your head spin.
I'm sure for that one that's cut there are probably 4 other programs that do the same damn thing and take up just as much tax payer dollars.

explain your solution for traffic then. What good are more highways in areas that are already so buiilt out you can't expand anymore?

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: Ladies Man
Think money grows on trees???

If I was running the show I'd cut so many programs it would make your head spin.
I'm sure for that one that's cut there are probably 4 other programs that do the same damn thing and take up just as much tax payer dollars.

Yeah, but the TE money is getting completely axed to be added to a highway budget that's already way above what even Bush asked for.

Total highway spending would rise to $34.1 billion in fiscal year 2004, $4.8 billion above Bush's budget request and about $2.5 billion more than 2003.

Where's the logic in that? An extra $600 million will maybe build an on-ramp somewhere while it would fund a lot of TE projects that improve quality of life for those in urban areas. This is an incredibly short-sighted decision IMO.

 

[Dudd]

The problem with Amtrak is that the trains are hopeless out of date. Go to Europe, ride their rail system, and then come back and compare it to Amtrak. It's no wonder no one wants to travel by train in the US. Unfortunately, the US is so much bigger than Europe or Japan that a modern rail system would be a financial impossibility, so I guess we're stuck with the system we have now.

 

[freegeeks]

Maybe the govt. should invest in a high-speed railway system like in Europe or Japan. IMO there is a lot of potential for something like that.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: kranky
From the article:

With congestion rising on U.S. roads, "highway funding is the main priority"

That's like saying "There has been an increase in arson cases, so we need more firemen." Wouldn't it be better to stop the fires from starting? In this case, it would mean taking steps to avoid more highway congestion, which rails-to-trails, and passenger trains, can help with.

Exactly. A good example as to why this is a terrible idea is my home town of Atlanta. Way back when we realized we were on the cusp of becoming a huge city, they had to make a decision as to how to address the traffic issue. The two choices were to create extensive public transportation/bike lanes/light rail/etc of to just make all the highways 8 lanes wide and add a perimter highway to feed them.

They opted for the second thing and Atlanta's traffic is now a fscking disaster area. More pavement will not fix congestion. Period.

 

[Shantanu]

Amtrak is fvcking useless outside the Boston-DC corridor. Scrap it.

 

[Ladies Man]

Originally posted by: Elemental007

Originally posted by: Ladies Man
Think money grows on trees???

If I was running the show I'd cut so many programs it would make your head spin.
I'm sure for that one that's cut there are probably 4 other programs that do the same damn thing and take up just as much tax payer dollars.

explain your solution for traffic then. What good are more highways in areas that are already so buiilt out you can't expand anymore?

there is no solution to traffic... there will never be a time when there are no rush hours.
Only way to make that slightly possible are to tear down all the roads are start over.
If you have 8 lane highways and still can't get them to move there isn't going to be an easy fix all solution. To many people living in one area and until people die off or hover cars start flying in the sky there will be no solution.

Amtrak is worthless. Few people use it and it's just wasting all of our money. I wish they weren't putting the money back into the roads... I wish they would actually lower the budget for a change...

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: Ladies Man

Originally posted by: Elemental007

Originally posted by: Ladies Man
Think money grows on trees???

If I was running the show I'd cut so many programs it would make your head spin.
I'm sure for that one that's cut there are probably 4 other programs that do the same damn thing and take up just as much tax payer dollars.

explain your solution for traffic then. What good are more highways in areas that are already so buiilt out you can't expand anymore?

there is no solution to traffic... there will never be a time when there are no rush hours.
Only way to make that slightly possible are to tear down all the roads are start over.
If you have 8 lane highways and still can't get them to move there isn't going to be an easy fix all solution. To many people living in one area and until people die off or hover cars start flying in the sky there will be no solution.

Amtrak is worthless. Few people use it and it's just wasting all of our money. I wish they weren't putting the money back into the roads... I wish they would actually lower the budget for a change...

Well obviously you can't change the roadways that already exist so the solution is to create viable alternatives for commuters. This is precisely why I'm pissed off that the TE funding is getting axed. Amtrak was/is a disaster, but there are things that will actually work.

 

[rahvin]

Two things:

Amtrak should be dismantled, it's a dissaster. Railways in general should have all federal protections (enacted in the early 1800s) removed and the system completely deregulated to assist in it becoming a competative industry again.

Roadways do need the money, nearly 20% of the bridges in this country have structural stabilities that are deemed insufficient. The nations highways have been disentigrating. We have made progress replacing highway infastructure in this country over the past decade but we need at least a decade and probably two of increased highway spending to restore the infastructure that built this country to acceptable status again. Consider this, the interstates were designed with a life expectancy till full reconstruction of 40 years. Most of the nations interstates are at or over those 40 years since a complete reconstruction. Additionaly, the Nations Highway Trust fund which is funded ENTIRELY by the national gas tax has not been fully spent on highways in decades. Even at current spending levels we don't come close to spending the money that was allocated originally for the highways on highways.

Do not think increased spending on highways means building new roads, it often means simply rebuilding the dissentegrating roads we have.

 

[beer]

Originally posted by: freegeeks
Maybe the govt. should invest in a high-speed railway system like in Europe or Japan. IMO there is a lot of potential for something like that.

Unfortunately it will never happen. I can fly anywhere in the region for about $150 on SWA, the costs of building a high-speed rail would never compete. Our country's long-haul transit future is buses and regional air carriers. Amtrak, though, could start a slippery slope that could derail other regional and urban rail projects. THat is why I am concerned.

 

[beer]

Originally posted by: rahvin
Two things:

Amtrak should be dismantled, it's a dissaster. Railways in general should have all federal protections (enacted in the early 1800s) removed and the system completely deregulated to assist in it becoming a competative industry again.

Roadways do need the money, nearly 20% of the bridges in this country have structural stabilities that are deemed insufficient. The nations highways have been disentigrating. We have made progress replacing highway infastructure in this country over the past decade but we need at least a decade and probably two of increased highway spending to restore the infastructure that built this country to acceptable status again. Consider this, the interstates were designed with a life expectancy till full reconstruction of 40 years. Most of the nations interstates are at or over those 40 years since a complete reconstruction. Additionaly, the Nations Highway Trust fund which is funded ENTIRELY by the national gas tax has not been fully spent on highways in decades. Even at current spending levels we don't come close to spending the money that was allocated originally for the highways on highways.

Do not think increased spending on highways means building new roads, it often means simply rebuilding the dissentegrating roads we have.

Railways and mass transit do not have to be competitive. Granted, amtrak is an extreme example and should have it's long-haul service dismantled. But smaller rail projects can't break even. However, if they move 25,000 people a day in a regional area, that's good, isn't it? That's 25,000 less cars on the road reducing pollution and most of it occurs during rush hours. This is not a libertarian society and sometimes the public good of having alternatives to transportation via car is a good thing.

 

[Shantanu]

Trains are only viable in high population density corridors.

Amtrak exists because their objective has never been to identify and service these corridors. Their routes are setup at the mercy of Congressmen.

"Well, I want a train coming through my town of Bumfvck, Arizona (pop. 240), if ya'll expect me to vote for this Amtrak bill".

The whole thing is a mess. I think another reason why Amtrak persists is a mindset that "We've got to have rail travel at all costs", even if in the modern age it's no longer feasible, nor necessary with cheap bus/plane tickets.

 

[DanTMWTMP]

damn it i rely on amtrak pacific surfliner every month!!! :|

 

[freegeeks]

Two things:

Amtrak should be dismantled, it's a dissaster. Railways in general should have all federal protections (enacted in the early 1800s) removed and the system completely deregulated to assist in it becoming a competative industry again.

Roadways do need the money, nearly 20% of the bridges in this country have structural stabilities that are deemed insufficient. The nations highways have been disentigrating. We have made progress replacing highway infastructure in this country over the past decade but we need at least a decade and probably two of increased highway spending to restore the infastructure that built this country to acceptable status again. Consider this, the interstates were designed with a life expectancy till full reconstruction of 40 years. Most of the nations interstates are at or over those 40 years since a complete reconstruction. Additionaly, the Nations Highway Trust fund which is funded ENTIRELY by the national gas tax has not been fully spent on highways in decades. Even at current spending levels we don't come close to spending the money that was allocated originally for the highways on highways.

Do not think increased spending on highways means building new roads, it often means simply rebuilding the dissentegrating roads we have.

they tried it in Great-Britain. Thatcher started privatizing the proud British-Rail. I suggest you ask the opinion of the Brits on this forum what they think of the "competitive" railway system in Great-Britain. The govt. had to intervene because the system went broke. It's unsafe and is not punctual. Basically it's a total mess. The British railway system is a disgrace for europe this moment.

 

[bolsen]

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Amtrak Sucks. If we keep giving them money they will continue to need it.

Shut them down.

Trains suck.

I agree. What a waste of $$$

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Elemental007

Railways and mass transit do not have to be competitive. Granted, amtrak is an extreme example and should have it's long-haul service dismantled. But smaller rail projects can't break even. However, if they move 25,000 people a day in a regional area, that's good, isn't it? That's 25,000 less cars on the road reducing pollution and most of it occurs during rush hours. This is not a libertarian society and sometimes the public good of having alternatives to transportation via car is a good thing.

Light rail funding was not cut. Federal light rail assistance is only in the form of matching construction funds for state projects, there are NO maitence or operational funds provided by the feds. If a local community desires light rail they can obtain federal matching funds to build the lines then pass a tax increase on the consitutency that will use the facility. All light rail/regional rail projects should be funded locally.

Most of the money in that fund was Pork, look at the list (and not the couple at the top).