Hot Pursuit Into Pakistan?

[RbSX]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Tell you what. How about Pakistan does anything at all of value to the rest of the world, THEN you can talk shit all you like. Otherwise you just look like a nationalistic tool.

]

So what's this thing that the US has done to the rest of the world except threaten, extort, start illegal wars; murder and torture?

[/quote]

A lot of things, I am not American and I consider the American presence up until the Bush era to be a blessing.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
And then never seem to notice that is bad as the Taliban is, you manage to make your self even more morally degenerate in Afghan eyes.

WTF do you know about "Afghan eyes"?!?

Answer: not a g'damn thing. you've never seen one.. let alone a pair.

you've also never come close to being correct on this topic.

not once.

still.

batting zero.

wow.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Here is where it all comes unraveled-----I advocate air strikes that ARE DIRECTED FROM THE GROUND AT SPECIFIC TROOP PLACEMENTS.

And then you do not read the news. Lets see, Krazai is now hopping mad at you Turkeys who did just that and oops--killed 41 people going to a wedding, 22 somewhere else, 15 Pakistani troops two weeks ago, 9 more yesterday, it all looks good on what you intended paper, but actual results matter.

And your actual results are cutting your own throats and air power is a very crude bludgeon indeed. For every bad guy you get, rule of thumb, figure one or two innocent civilians.

How the fuck you can get away with this kind of constant hypocrasy, misrepresentation and complete lies is beyond me.

I will not answer it, since it's a complete and utter lie, first line to last.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well try this link JOS---it only took a few minutes to find on google.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/pos...eral_ceremonial_damage

If this is not enough lies for you I am sure I can find much much more with just a bit of effort.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Lemon law
And then never seem to notice that is bad as the Taliban is, you manage to make your self even more morally degenerate in Afghan eyes.

WTF do you know about "Afghan eyes"?!?

Answer: not a g'damn thing. you've never seen one.. let alone a pair.

you've also never come close to being correct on this topic.

not once.

still.

batting zero.

wow.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
palehorse, for a fellow who seems to think you are always right, you seem to have a mighty poor batting average yourself.

I can somewhat understand the Taliban making mischief at the Pakistani Afghan border, but when they have free run of all of Afghanistan far far far from the border, it tells me you are speaking with a forked tongue.

And you sure are not winning anything, if each and every year, the Taliban gets more and more active. But then again I don't base my posts on your rose colored glasses cheer leading, I read it in news reports like everyone else. After that, its not hard at all to connect the dots.

But I suppose I am not right, never been right, when I say 2008 is the highest US causality year ever in Afghanistan, and all those yahoo news links I post here are a pack of lies I made up.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Turkey who did just that and oops--killed 41 people going to a wedding, 22 somewhere else, 15 Pakistani troops two weeks ago.

For every bad guy you get, rule of thumb, figure one or two innocent civilians.

Turkey would not be directing ops in Afghanistan. Turkey is less particular when it comes to targets.

Second, for those who aren't familiar with how airs support works, perhaps you would explain two things. One is how what Turkey did is fundamentally different from what JOS is suggesting and two, when acting as JOS intends, what source did you use to arrive to the 1:1 to 1:2 kill ratio?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Here is where it all comes unraveled-----I advocate air strikes that ARE DIRECTED FROM THE GROUND AT SPECIFIC TROOP PLACEMENTS.

And then you do not read the news. Lets see, Krazai is now hopping mad at you Turkeys who did just that and oops--killed 41 people going to a wedding, 22 somewhere else, 15 Pakistani troops two weeks ago, 9 more yesterday, it all looks good on what you intended paper, but actual results matter.

And your actual results are cutting your own throats and air power is a very crude bludgeon indeed. For every bad guy you get, rule of thumb, figure one or two innocent civilians.

How the fuck you can get away with this kind of constant hypocrasy, misrepresentation and complete lies is beyond me.

I will not answer it, since it's a complete and utter lie, first line to last.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well try this link JOS---it only took a few minutes to find on google.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/pos...eral_ceremonial_damage

If this is not enough lies for you I am sure I can find much much more with just a bit of effort.

A site/blog by someone that is not there.
Quick review of the site shows the slant.

Come back with first hand, not third hand with axes to grind.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I think Rainsfort is somewhat arguing at cross purposes. By in large I think there WAS world wide agreement that a US invasion of Afghanistan was justified. But the notion that Pakistan is responsible for the resurgence of the taliban, basically a group of retro reactionary nuts lacking any education is absurd.

But when the Nato occupation has only 62,000 troops in a nation of 31 million, when the US and Nato have done basically nothing to provide the economic aid that would prove the Taliban has nothing to offer the Afghan people, and then the US empowers war lords who have taken over much of Afghanistan, it becomes an easy sell for the Taliban to say
all your miseries are caused by Western influences.

This is still a battle for the hearts and minds of the Afghan people and its a battle that must take place in the free marketplace of ideas. Its totally absurd that 62,000 Nato troops or even triple that will do anything but prove the taliban correct. The taliban will still find new refuges as the USA becomes the most hated nation in the region.

In many ways, The Green Bean is somewhat a typical modern Pakistani, he wants to support the US efforts, but its certainly equally possible to get all Pakistanis to unite against the USA.

And when we have so few Pakistanis posting on P&N, I hardly think we should dismiss The Green Bean as some defiant nut that fails to fall down and worship us. If he is anything remotely resembling typical, its a warning that we should heed.

Why do you keep contributing to threads about Pakistan? You have absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about, and yet you persist, thread after thread. Are you that much in love with the sound of your own voice? Admittedly I get a kick out of the authoritative voice you try to give yourself in these threads, but I'm starting to wonder if you now actually believe that you know what you're talking about.

Edit: The Green Bean a typical modern Pakistani? LOL. Pray tell, what's the size of the pool of other typical Pakistanis are you drawing this conclusion from?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: RyanSengara

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Tell you what. How about Pakistan does anything at all of value to the rest of the world, THEN you can talk shit all you like. Otherwise you just look like a nationalistic tool.

]

So what's this thing that the US has done to the rest of the world except threaten, extort, start illegal wars; murder and torture?

A lot of things, I am not American and I consider the American presence up until the Bush era to be a blessing.

[/quote]

Damn your media must be smart. Getting away with "A lot of things."

 

[RbSX]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: RyanSengara

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Tell you what. How about Pakistan does anything at all of value to the rest of the world, THEN you can talk shit all you like. Otherwise you just look like a nationalistic tool.

]

So what's this thing that the US has done to the rest of the world except threaten, extort, start illegal wars; murder and torture?

A lot of things, I am not American and I consider the American presence up until the Bush era to be a blessing.

Damn your media must be smart. Getting away with "A lot of things."[/quote]

My media?

I'm Canadian, I live 30 minutes away from the border.

I've found American technological and soceital developments, and contributions to the betterment of man kind over the last two hundred years to be mostly positive. I could go onto list them, but rather I'll summarize with one basic thought, up until the bush era the Americans operated on good intentions as much as anything else, and were NOT self serving. They assisted people at their own expense.

You sure talk a lot of smack for someone that lives from a second world country, from a caste based society that is from the stone age that promotes the degradation of women, violence amongst other things. You come from a turbulent culture that festers on arguing, age old familial disputes that makes your society look like a bunch of bickering children.

It's okay, don't be alarmed, you aren't alone in that regard, it's a part of South Asian culture, I'd know, I'm half South Asian.

Take a look inside of yourself and see if Pakistan has done anything 1/10th as significant as America in terms of positive contributions.

 

[Lemon law]

I just get amazed buy what unrealistic expectations some posters have of Pakistan. In the first place, they started with damn near nothing when the Modern world came to Pakistan and many similar nations. Then they are militarily threatened by an India easily 10X or better its size, and now some suddenly want to compare something at best
medium sized with some thing huge.

But if we remove the Pakistani tribal regions from the equation, India has heavily invested in its very few best and brightest, while Pakistan has tended to invest in everyone.
If you can stomach the squalor in the rest of India, its still their strategy that only a real giant nation can use. When you compare Pakistan with similar sized nations, Pakistan
comes out somewhat better than most.

 

[RbSX]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I just get amazed buy what unrealistic expectations some posters have of Pakistan. In the first place, they started with damn near nothing when the Modern world came to Pakistan and many similar nations. Then they are militarily threatened by an India easily 10X or better its size, and now some suddenly want to compare something at best
medium sized with some thing huge.

But if we remove the Pakistani tribal regions from the equation, India has heavily invested in its very few best and brightest, while Pakistan has tended to invest in everyone.
If you can stomach the squalor in the rest of India, its still their strategy that only a real giant nation can use. When you compare Pakistan with similar sized nations, Pakistan
comes out somewhat better than most.

A lot of people have unrealistic expectations of America and most of the first world, the fact is at some point every major nation state has been in a similar situation as Pakistan, where it is at the juncture of becoming a first world nation with the potential to help, or be so consumed with infighting that it collapses in on itself.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Pakistan make a positive contribution? That's a good one.

 

[tvarad]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I just get amazed buy what unrealistic expectations some posters have of Pakistan. In the first place, they started with damn near nothing when the Modern world came to Pakistan and many similar nations. Then they are militarily threatened by an India easily 10X or better its size, and now some suddenly want to compare something at best
medium sized with some thing huge.

But if we remove the Pakistani tribal regions from the equation, India has heavily invested in its very few best and brightest, while Pakistan has tended to invest in everyone.
If you can stomach the squalor in the rest of India, its still their strategy that only a real giant nation can use. When you compare Pakistan with similar sized nations, Pakistan
comes out somewhat better than most.

Lemon Law,
You truly need a history lesson of the region. Pakistan's instability arises from the fact that it defined itself as "not India" right from it's independence. And it's nurtured that obsessive trait to this day, even when things are falling apart. Instead of investing in it's political and social institutions to serve the people, it has invested heavily in projecting itself as a militaristic state equal to India, a country five times it's size. As the saying goes, if a rabbit tries to s*it like an elephant, it will eviscerate itself.

Pakistan is a dysfunctional entity, plain and simple. It's an affliction brought on by it's myopic leaders, I might add.

 

[Lemon law]

Well now I understand, if Pakistan as a nation met the Betty Crocker Good Housekeeping seal of approval, it would have the same rights as everyone other sovereign nation,
but because its does not meet the Betty test, it becomes the white mans burden and you morally superior people are now empowered to show them the way.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

BLACK
HAWK
DOWN

 

[Vonkhan]

Originally posted by: Lemon law


But if we remove the Pakistani tribal regions from the equation, India has heavily invested in its very few best and brightest, while Pakistan has tended to invest in everyone.
If you can stomach the squalor in the rest of India, its still their strategy that only a real giant nation can use. When you compare Pakistan with similar sized nations, Pakistan
comes out somewhat better than most.

LOL, are you serious?!

pakistan may come out marginally better than Zimbabwe or Bangladesh ...

The only thing that pakistan invested in was terrorism - a nice sized one at that too seeing the chunk it's taken out of their collective butts.

I'm taking bets on how long it takes for pakistan to implode - I give it 5 years max

 

[Lemon law]

A good part of Pakistan's problems involve its problem with India. Maybe a better comparison might by the USA v. Cuba. Here the USA implies an embargo and then jumps up and says communism does not work.

But Pakistan is infinitely better than Zimbabwe, after all, Pakistan has nukes and that says it all. Other than the heavily subsidized Israel, the smallest member of the nuclear club. And much of Pakistan's fears are driven by India and a justified fear that US commitments are worthless.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Vonkhan

Originally posted by: Lemon law


But if we remove the Pakistani tribal regions from the equation, India has heavily invested in its very few best and brightest, while Pakistan has tended to invest in everyone.
If you can stomach the squalor in the rest of India, its still their strategy that only a real giant nation can use. When you compare Pakistan with similar sized nations, Pakistan
comes out somewhat better than most.

LOL, are you serious?!

pakistan may come out marginally better than Zimbabwe or Bangladesh ...

The only thing that pakistan invested in was terrorism - a nice sized one at that too seeing the chunk it's taken out of their collective butts.

I'm taking bets on how long it takes for pakistan to implode - I give it 5 years max

So how come the average Pakistani is richer than the average Indian? Don't show me BS stats. I've been to India and have seen unbelievable poverty in the large cities (Mumbai) and rural areas. Yes it's getting better but in that regard Pakistanis are MUCH better off. Why do the stats not reflect this? Because Pakistan's black economy is almost as large as the one that's shown officially. So I think you will be better if you concentrate of fixing your own problems before pointing fingers at us telling us how badly we are doing!

India's problems are not less than that of Pakistan's. It's just that the western media is too busy broadcasting our faults because of its illegal wars. India might be a powerhouse but only because it has 1.1 billion people! On an per/capita level it's a shit hole and doesn't look like it's going to get better. India is light years behind China which is light years behind some western countries.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Pakistan make a positive contribution? That's a good one.

There are plenty of positive contributions we have made. It's just that that the definition of positive will vary from culture to culture and from individual to individual.

 

[Vonkhan]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Vonkhan

Originally posted by: Lemon law


But if we remove the Pakistani tribal regions from the equation, India has heavily invested in its very few best and brightest, while Pakistan has tended to invest in everyone.
If you can stomach the squalor in the rest of India, its still their strategy that only a real giant nation can use. When you compare Pakistan with similar sized nations, Pakistan
comes out somewhat better than most.

LOL, are you serious?!

pakistan may come out marginally better than Zimbabwe or Bangladesh ...

The only thing that pakistan invested in was terrorism - a nice sized one at that too seeing the chunk it's taken out of their collective butts.

I'm taking bets on how long it takes for pakistan to implode - I give it 5 years max

So how come the average Pakistani is richer than the average Indian? Don't show me BS stats. I've been to India and have seen unbelievable poverty in the large cities (Mumbai) and rural areas. Yes it's getting better but in that regard Pakistanis are MUCH better off. Why do the stats not reflect this? Because Pakistan's black economy is almost as large as the one that's shown officially. So I think you will be better if you concentrate of fixing your own problems before pointing fingers at us telling us how badly we are doing!

India's problems are not less than that of Pakistan's. It's just that the western media is too busy broadcasting our faults because of its illegal wars. India might be a powerhouse but only because it has 1.1 billion people! On an per/capita level it's a shit hole and doesn't look like it's going to get better. India is light years behind China which is light years behind some western countries.

A nation of crooks & thugs.

Good job.

A famous quote: "pakistanis are obsessed with Indians while Indians are obsessed with themselves. This greatly pleases Indians and it annoys pakistanis to a great extent"

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Vonkhan

A nation of crooks & thugs.

Good job.

A famous quote: "pakistanis are obsessed with Indians while Indians are obsessed with themselves. This greatly pleases Indians and it annoys pakistanis to a great extent"

We can clearly see who is obsessed with who here

 

[Lemon law]

A nation of crooks & thugs.

As an American I resent that---I do not want to be compared with GWB, blackwater, Hailburton, or the contractors we sent into Iraq.

At least Pakistan tends to its own knitting and does not try to destabilize entire regions half way around the world.

 

[neodyn55]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
A nation of crooks & thugs.

As an American I resent that---I do not want to be compared with GWB, blackwater, Hailburton, or the contractors we sent into Iraq.

At least Pakistan tends to its own knitting and does not try to destabilize entire regions half way around the world.

??

He called pakistan a nation of crooks and thugs.

are you pakistani?

 

[Vonkhan]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
A nation of crooks & thugs.

As an American I resent that---I do not want to be compared with GWB, blackwater, Hailburton, or the contractors we sent into Iraq.

At least Pakistan tends to its own knitting and does not try to destabilize entire regions half way around the world.

Punjab, Kashmir, Afghanistan ... lol, seriously - get a clue.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
At least Pakistan tends to its own knitting and does not try to destabilize entire regions half way around the world.

Amen to that. Most countries this day and age do the same. There are just a few power-hungry empires that need to fulfill their rise-and-fall destiny like all those before them.