Hot for martyrdom: Possibly the best explanation of what drives Islamic extremists I've ever read.

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
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Hot for martyrdom
Dr. Tawfik Hamid doesn't tell people where he lives. Not the street, not the city, not even the country. It's safer that way. It's only the letters of testimony from some of the highest intelligence officers in the Western world that enable him to move freely. This medical doctor, author and activist once was a member of Egypt's Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Arabic for "the Islamic Group"), a banned terrorist organization. He was trained under Ayman al-Zawahiri, the bearded jihadi who appears in Bin Laden's videos, telling the world that Islamic violence will stop only once we all become Muslims.

He's a disarmingly gentle and courteous man. But he's determined to tell a complacent North America what he knows about fundamentalist Muslim imperialism.

He is now 45 years old, and has had many years to reflect on why he was willing to die and kill for his religion. "The first thing you have to understand is that it has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with poverty or lack of education," he says. "I was from a middle-class family and my parents were not religious. Hardly anyone in the movement at university came from a background that was different from mine.

"I've heard this poverty nonsense time and time again from Western apologists for Islam, most of them not Muslim by the way. There are millions of passive supporters of terror who may be poor and needy but most of those who do the killing are wealthy, privileged, educated and free. If it were about poverty, ask yourself why it is middle-class Muslims -- and never poor Christians -- who become suicide bombers in Palestine."

His analysis is fascinating. Muslim fundamentalists believe, he insists, that Saudi Arabia's petroleum-based wealth is a divine gift, and that Saudi influence is sanctioned by Allah. Thus the extreme brand of Sunni Islam that spread from the Kingdom to the rest of the Islamic world is regarded not merely as one interpretation of the religion but the only genuine interpretation. The expansion of violent and regressive Islam, he continues, began in the late 1970s, and can be traced precisely to the growing financial clout of Saudi Arabia.

He leans back, takes a deep breath and moves to another area, one that he says is far too seldom discussed: "North Americans are too squeamish about discussing the obvious sexual dynamic behind suicide bombings. If they understood contemporary Islamic society, they would understand the sheer sexual tension of Sunni Muslim men. Look at the figures for suicide bombings and see how few are from the Shiite world. Terrorism and violence yes, but not suicide. The overwhelming majority are from Sunnis. Now within the Shiite world there are what is known as temporary marriages, lasting anywhere from an hour to 95 years. It enables men to release their sexual frustrations.

"Islam condemns extra-marital sex as well as masturbation, which is also taught in the Christian tradition. But Islam also tells of unlimited sexual ecstasy in paradise with beautiful virgins for the martyr who gives his life for the faith. Don't for a moment underestimate this blinding passion or its influence on those who accept fundamentalism."

A pause. "I know. I was one who accepted it."

This partial explanation is shocking more for its banality than its horror. Mass murder provoked partly by simple lust. But it cannot be denied that letters written by suicide bombers frequently dwell on waiting virgins and sexual gratification.

"The sexual aspect is, of course, just one part of this. But I can tell you what it is not about. Not about Israel, not about Iraq, not about Afghanistan. They are mere excuses. Algerian Muslim fundamentalists murdered 150,000 other Algerian Muslims, sometimes slitting the throats of children in front of their parents. Are you seriously telling me that this was because of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians or American foreign policy?"

He's exasperated now, visibly angry at what he sees as a willful Western foolishness. "Stop asking what you have done wrong. Stop it! They're slaughtering you like sheep and you still look within. You criticize your history, your institutions, your churches. Why can't you realize that it has nothing to do with what you have done but with what they want."
I'm actually a little embarassed that I never thought about Islamic terrorism from this angle - it's so damn obvious, especially for someone who's traveled to Islamic countries and seen how the place positively seethes with repressed sexual tension.

We know that Dr. Hamid is correct - poverty is not the justification of extremists (of course it might be the reason for some smaller percentage of sympathizers). Sex, though... That makes sense. Man, sometimes the answer is right in front of your face.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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He's right, btw, most of our suicide profiles indicate a certain level of sexual frustration and shame that go hand-in-hand with the bombers' lust for paradise and forgiveness. Dr. Hamid has some great things to say here and his speeches are always worth listening to.
 

hellokeith

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2004
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Any info on the root cause of the sexual repression? Are these Muslim men restricted or forbidden to marry?
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
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Originally posted by: hellokeith
Any info on the root cause of the sexual repression? Are these Muslim men restricted or forbidden to marry?
Marriage is not a huge problem. It's the twentyish years before marriage which are usually completely devoid of open contact with females outside your immediate family. That tends to wind a guy up.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: hellokeith
Any info on the root cause of the sexual repression? Are these Muslim men restricted or forbidden to marry?
Their entire culture is consumed by lust, shame, fear, regret, and jealousy. Their actual marriage rules change slightly from tribe to tribe, and across the major lines such as Sunni and Shi'ite, but it's almost impossible for most Westerners to comprehend the rules of behavior by which they live. You would have to study their laws and the Quran/Hadiths to even begin to understand where all of their shame and regret comes from, and just how ingrained these aspects are in each person.

Their self-imposed shame and their divisions between the sexes goes to the very core of their beliefs and all that seperates them from Western secular society.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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The shame is not only personal, but cultural. Islam from its inception was a beacon of learning and advancement for the world. For the first few hundred years that is. At one point the caliphate was at the doors of vienna, and had conquered nearly the entire iberian peninsula. Since then all they have known is retreat, defeat, and subjugation. Now what does the world show towards them? The worst thing of all... mostly people pity them.

I don't blame the western world in the slightest for this. Both sides fought, and we won. Tough cookies. When your religion is your community, (and far more important then state and national divides) and your history has been one of humiliation and defeat for centuries... particularly when your religion teaches you that you are the best thing ever to show up in this world... it tends to cause people to lash out.

This is a large influence on why you see the regressivism in modern islam as well. They view the caliphate as the pinnacle, the most perfect expression of islam, and attribute much of their trouble over the last few centuries to straying from that ideal.
 

Atrail

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2001
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The first WTC bomber and many other known terrorists do not meet this model. Many of them are not even close to what Muslims would call "good muslims" meaning they drink, are promiscuous, etc... They see jihad as a way to make up for all the sin they have committed. If they had practiced jihad earlier in their life perhaps they would not feel this way, jihad meaning fighting in the struggle to lead a good life. There are "good muslims" who go to college get married and then become terrorists too sure. Just saying this not an accurate "model" of a terrorist. Not even close...
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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Hogwash who comes up this this convoluted garbage that passes for intelligentsia..
Osama has 4 wives and 43 children. Thats a lot of "released tension" Read the Quran, it's all in there. Some peoples take it seriously simple as that.


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html#009.005
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.034
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.065
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html#005.060
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/007.qmt.html#007.166

I could go on forever just get a clue in addition to offering Total Regulation of Life and a Complete Explanation of the Universe it's basically a manual for warfare against unbelievers. Read the whole thing cover to cover and then post this apologetic silliness. Your first clue is should have been their men of cloth have armed offensive militias. Don't you think thats a little odd? Never dawn on y'all as to why.

When celebit priests and monks of other persuasions start detonating bombs and chopping heads around the world I may reconsider the sexual repression angle.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I am sure many terrorists think America is a hotbed of sexual promiscuity with all females with the possible exception of nuns dressing like total sluts.

But I lose little sleep worrying about some suicidal terrorist blowing themselves up and in the process getting me.----------its always a small but finite risk.

What I do worry about is some terrorist who wants to survive---and so hates various extremist parts of my culture that they will find lots of effective ways to kill me.

And I also ask what the difference--a Western style army that basically uses suicidal Canon fodder called soldiers for its anti-terrorist weapon---and we set that upon entire populations---leaving only the terrorists as those who fight the last ditch battles with any weapons available. By the time that happens---all voices of moderation or accommodation have long been driven to the sidelines and out of the peace process.

If you want to reduce the I will commit suicide but take some one on the other side with me numbers.

And it seems to me that GWB is the other sides number one recruiter.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
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Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: hellokeith
Any info on the root cause of the sexual repression? Are these Muslim men restricted or forbidden to marry?
Their entire culture is consumed by lust, shame, fear, regret, and jealousy. Their actual marriage rules change slightly from tribe to tribe, and across the major lines such as Sunni and Shi'ite, but it's almost impossible for most Westerners to comprehend the rules of behavior by which they live. You would have to study their laws and the Quran/Hadiths to even begin to understand where all of their shame and regret comes from, and just how ingrained these aspects are in each person.

Their self-imposed shame and their divisions between the sexes goes to the very core of their beliefs and all that seperates them from Western secular society.

You make me so happy that I grew up here =p Despite all my contact with women, I'm amazingly still a virgin ;)

I never liked that strict division either - How are you supposed to grow up ignoring 50% of the world? How in the world will you ever learn to even INTERACT with women if you don't communicate with them?

I think that type of treatment also objectifies women - because you don't interact with them, thus they have no personality and no opinions. Your family alone is hardily enough to know how different people are. I think we can take it further and say that this treatment even takes rights away from women because you essentially try NOT to acknowledge them. I really feel the benefits of this specific type of Arab culture is far outweighed by the total cost.

Even Saddam was smart enough to know that once highschool comes - kids need to be mixed else you will get these problems later on.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Well, if we want to somehow hypothesize that lack of realistic sexual integration of a society reduces the birth rates to acceptable levels---we should not be looking at Islamic countries.--if anything low birth rates are a western social problem.

Anyway---war was always the time honored method of reducing excess population.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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While I don't doubt that this plays somewhat of a role, I think it's silly to assume everyone fits the same nutball image that the author presents. I think that terrorists, just like any other group of people, do it for different reasons. It's a mistake to assume they all have the same motivation.