Horrible new grading policy being tested in schools

[Leros]

As Zenmervolt said, the important thing is that the student grasps the material before moving on to the next class.

For example, say exam grades are 20, 30, 60, 80, and 90. This earns a 56 average, but the student has learned the material by the end of the class. Objective achieved. They don't deserve the same grade as somebody who made all As, but they deserve to at least have their grade bumped up to a passing grade.

Pro:This allows for students to make up for their shortcomings, but only through hard effort and actually learning.

Con: It doesn't necessarily work in all types of classes. The material has to be cumulative, like a math class.

 

[Zenmervolt]

As Zenmervolt said, the important thing is that the student grasps the material before moving on to the next class.

I'm not sure how will this works in certain types of classes, but if a student is doing well in the later portions of the class and does well on the final, then you can conclude they learned the material.

For example, if your exam grades are F F D C B B, then you've learned the material by the end of the class. Objective achieved. They don't deserve the same grade as somebody who made all As, but they deserve to at least have their grade bumped up to a passing grade.

Pro:This allows for students to make up for their shortcomings, but only through hard effort and actually learning.

Con: It doesn't necessarily work in all types of classes.

As you point out in your "con", that doesn't work in all (or even most) courses.

Very few HS classes are substantially additive over the course of a semester. Outside of Math, I really cannot think of a class in which the grades on later assignments are truly substantially dependent upon the understanding of earlier material.

In science classes, even specialized courses like Physics or Anatomy and Physiology, the curriculum is sufficiently varied that a strong performance on later assignments is not indicative of an understanding of the material covered by early assignments.

In humanities courses (History, Art, Literature, Sociology, etc) the curricula are once again sufficiently varied that strong performance in later assignments does not indicate understanding of earlier material.

It is really only Mathematics in which there is a strong enough tie between the initial assignments and the later assignments for the theory that a student who improves enough to satisfactorily complete the later assignments truly understands the course material.

I also neglected to delve into the increased potential for something like this to encourage slacking in the later parts of a course. If a person is coming into the final 1/3 to 1/4 of the course carrying a mid 90's average then a policy such as this actually removes some of the incentive to continue completing assignments. If a slacking student knows that he will receive a 50% even if he doesn't turn anything in, there is no incentive for even a token effort on later assignments which could lead to students absorbing significantly less knowledge near the final portion of a class when the most advanced topics are being taught. In essence, it reduces or removes the incentive to continue working hard through the most challenging portions of a course.

ZV

 

[xanis]

My mom works in Special Education and the "no fail" rule has been in effect for a LONG time. In some cases I suppose I can see it being okay, but in most it's just plain stupid.

 

[Sea Moose]

I was one of the kids that was always just failing assignments and exams. It got to a point where i handed in blank pieces of paper.

I told the teacher.

"I always fail, so why should i waste my time doing the assessment"

I think that i was in the wrong place. I am involved with the military and I am doing a trade now and i am running my own business. School is designed to channel people in university, and damn all others.

School should be run in a similar fashion to military class rooms. You cant fail a military class. Because they will teach you until you understand.

 

[Locut0s]

I was one of the kids that was always just failing assignments and exams. It got to a point where i handed in blank pieces of paper.

I told the teacher.

"I always fail, so why should i waste my time doing the assessment"

I think that i was in the wrong place. I am involved with the military and I am doing a trade now and i am running my own business. School is designed to channel people in university, and damn all others.

School should be run in a similar fashion to military class rooms. You cant fail a military class. Because they will teach you until you understand.

What's the business you run?

 

[ShawnD1]

This new policy doesn't seem fair to the kids. They're going through life thinking everything is ok then they turn 18 and their entire world changes. Suddenly people are judging them in ways they've never seen before, the bar is much higher, people no longer put up with their bullshit. If they were judged harshly from day 1, the transition from being a student to being a working adult would be very smooth.

We also need to stop telling kids that they are special and that grunt work is beneath them. It's soul-crushing when people find out they've been lied to, they are not special, and grunt work is what they'll be doing for the next 30 years.

 

[Via]

I was interested in this topic so I googled every combination of 59%, class, education etc. I could think of and didn't hit anything.

Strange. You'd think something radical like that would at least have some hits on google.

 

[ShawnD1]

I was interested in this topic so I googled every combination of 59%, class, education etc. I could think of and didn't hit anything.

Strange. You'd think something radical like that would at least have some hits on google.

It's not really a new policy. Even 10+ years ago, kids were never held back. It was so bad that my high school had 4 separate levels of math per grade from grade 10 to 12. Math 14 was retard math, 13 was less retarded, 10 Applied was useful math (problem solving), and 10 Pure was theoretical math (what is the area between these two curves). Universities accept only Pure math, community college will accept either Pure or Applied math. The 3 and 4 endings are completely useless.

The government would probably save a lot of money if they cut that down to just the pure math then failed everyone else. Make the high school diploma based on credits only with no specific requirements. That way people wouldn't waste time in the worthless math classes just for the sake of getting a diploma.

 

[Terzo]

As Zenmervolt said, the important thing is that the student grasps the material before moving on to the next class.

For example, say exam grades are 20, 30, 60, 80, and 90. This earns a 56 average, but the student has learned the material by the end of the class. Objective achieved. They don't deserve the same grade as somebody who made all As, but they deserve to at least have their grade bumped up to a passing grade.

Pro:This allows for students to make up for their shortcomings, but only through hard effort and actually learning.

Con: It doesn't necessarily work in all types of classes. The material has to be cumulative, like a math class.

As you point out in your "con", that doesn't work in all (or even most) courses.

Very few HS classes are substantially additive over the course of a semester. Outside of Math, I really cannot think of a class in which the grades on later assignments are truly substantially dependent upon the understanding of earlier material.

In science classes, even specialized courses like Physics or Anatomy and Physiology, the curriculum is sufficiently varied that a strong performance on later assignments is not indicative of an understanding of the material covered by early assignments.

In humanities courses (History, Art, Literature, Sociology, etc) the curricula are once again sufficiently varied that strong performance in later assignments does not indicate understanding of earlier material.

It is really only Mathematics in which there is a strong enough tie between the initial assignments and the later assignments for the theory that a student who improves enough to satisfactorily complete the later assignments truly understands the course material.

I also neglected to delve into the increased potential for something like this to encourage slacking in the later parts of a course. If a person is coming into the final 1/3 to 1/4 of the course carrying a mid 90's average then a policy such as this actually removes some of the incentive to continue completing assignments. If a slacking student knows that he will receive a 50% even if he doesn't turn anything in, there is no incentive for even a token effort on later assignments which could lead to students absorbing significantly less knowledge near the final portion of a class when the most advanced topics are being taught. In essence, it reduces or removes the incentive to continue working hard through the most challenging portions of a course.

ZV

I disagree about only math being substantially additive. Really, half of the "hard" sciences are applied math in some form or another. For example, in Physics, especially E&M, so much builds upon a foundation. We started with point charges, then line charges, then spherical/cylindrical/infinite plane charges. Then you make things even more fun when charges start moving and you get magnetic fields. Ideally by the end of the class you'll be covering Maxwell's Equations. I doubt someone would be able to really understand and apply them without having a grasp on the material that came before.
I cant give other examples, but I assume other subjects like chemistry and biology build upon themselves in a similar manner.

 

[Exterous]

I was interested in this topic so I googled every combination of 59%, class, education etc. I could think of and didn't hit anything.

Strange. You'd think something radical like that would at least have some hits on google.

It's called a 'Minimum Grade Policy'
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2009/oct/20/minimum-grades/
http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/webwatch/2009/04/killing_minimum_grades_in_texa.html
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09007/940011-52.stm

 

[shortylickens]

Thats hardly a new policy. Many, MANY school systems across the country work like that.
So long as you turn in something, you will always be given a generous score.

Also, I agree with Sea Moose. The schools I had in the Navy were far superior to anything I got in the civilian world.

 

[Exterous]

But they're just children, how can they? The average sixteen year old isn't even capable of comprehending the consequences of committing murder or child rape, and you expect them to have their entire school year planned ahead of time? This is simply too much a burden on our children. No wonder suicides and school shootings are so prevalent.

Yes - they have no sense of responsibility so let's not teach them any. I don't know about you but at the age of 16 I knew how grades were calculated and what I needed to do to get a passing grade. Shit - if they can get a driver's license at 16 they damn well better know responsibility!

Maybe we should make one of the requirements for getting a drivers license a passing grade in school (without minimum grade policies)

Even 10+ years ago, kids were never held back.

Ugh - thats horrible too. My wife got a student in Spanish III who failed Spanish II. The counselors didn't want him to feel bad or look bad in front of other students (self esteem) so they didn't make him retake the class. Needless to say he is not doing well in Spanish III

 

[Exterous]

Does anyone have any reason to believe this is actually happening, beyond the OP's wife's alleged conversation?

Thanks dick If you were really that concerned Google is a great site to look things up on to see it's not an isolated phenomenon (sadly enough). And she wasn't told second hand - she was told first hand in the district teacher's meeting. Both High Schools teachers gather twice a year for a meeting where new plans/policies are discussed. The Principal of the other High School in the District rolled out his new plan to all the teachers there. If it is seen as 'Successful' it will be pushed to her High School too.

Thats hardly a new policy. Many, MANY school systems across the country work like that.
So long as you turn in something, you will always be given a generous score.

It seems the minimum score is creeping upwards

 

[BarkingGhostar]

My wife just told me that the other highschool in her district is testing a policy where no child can be given lower than a 59%....ever. You can turn in an assignment or test, get every answer wrong and still get a 59%. They still give Incompletes but that just means it no longer counts towards your total grade......

And they aren't the only ones! She went to a staff meeting where they were told that this new program is being tested all over the country. They are afraid that children feel like they get too far behind if they get too many low grade assignments/tests. Then they just give up because they think they have no chance. Now - by only being able to get a 59% as the lowest grade the student will not be overwhelmed by past failures in class

I just can't believe it.....

so 2/100 = 59%?!

Come on!

When I was in college, I joked about creating a test in which you get 50% of the overall grade for putting your name correctly on the test, and you only get the remaining 50% if you get everything else correct. Cynical, yes, but teaches one to try or get a vocational career.

 

[Fenixgoon]

I was one of the kids that was always just failing assignments and exams. It got to a point where i handed in blank pieces of paper.

I told the teacher.

"I always fail, so why should i waste my time doing the assessment"

I think that i was in the wrong place. I am involved with the military and I am doing a trade now and i am running my own business. School is designed to channel people in university, and damn all others.

School should be run in a similar fashion to military class rooms. You cant fail a military class. Because they will teach you until you understand.

so you want people to put up with a bunch of PITA little craps for more than 8 hours a day, get paid less than 40k/year, and teach them till they understand?

good luck.

 

[TecHNooB]

They do this at my university :O

 

[Homerboy]

Social promotion saves tax money. This policy simply moves the kids through the system w/ minimal fuss. If parents don't care about their kids' education why should anyone else?

Amen. I see it over and over and OVER in my kids' school (and its a good school too where kids are actually required to be accountable and actually ARE accountable). Yet 90% of the parents don't give a crap and don't participate to make anything better (mind you they sure bitch and moan when things don't go as they like).

My wife and I make every effort to help out where we can both in the class room and at board meetings etc. It shows our kids that school is important and worth working towards and for.

As per the OP.... just stupid as hell. God bless the American Education system. Social promotion and "everybody wins!" mentality is softening our kids way way way too much.

 

[darkxshade]

5.9/10 rant

 

[Kadarin]

But they're just children, how can they? The average sixteen year old isn't even capable of comprehending the consequences of committing murder or child rape, and you expect them to have their entire school year planned ahead of time? This is simply too much a burden on our children. No wonder suicides and school shootings are so prevalent.

Children will stay children forever unless they learn how to deal with hard lessons at some point.

 

[sandmanwake]

My proposal to fix the education system is to no longer require school attendance beyond the 8th grade. In fact, if you want to go to high school, you should have to pass a standardized test in reading and math.

The school system has basically become a babysitting service and we have too many people with high school diplomas who can't even do basic reading, writing, and math. If someone is not able or willing to put in the effort to learn enough of the basics to go to high school, they should not be forced to do so.

 

[darkxshade]

This is extremely unfair to those who actually scored a 59, I propose they get an automatic 6 point bonus to put them on the passing mark. Stand with me people!

 

[destrekor]

But they're just children, how can they? The average sixteen year old isn't even capable of comprehending the consequences of committing murder or child rape, and you expect them to have their entire school year planned ahead of time? This is simply too much a burden on our children. No wonder suicides and school shootings are so prevalent.

Are you being serious?

I'll assume you were not, but reply as if you were indeed.

Children are being artificially directed to act like children for far too long.
There used to be no child labor laws, and children were used in the family unit for every drop of labor of which they were capable. Family farms, to an extent, are still run that way.

If we keep holding a kid's hand throughout their life, they will continue to remain dependent on that hand. Children have a brain physiologically capable of basic maturity, in which which reward/punishment, they can learn to understand their good deeds and mistakes.

Winners and losers is an important part of learning in life, and parenting associated with it is absolutely necessary. Children need to learn to accept they can't win at everything, and it's equally as important that parents help the children cope with losing and forcefully push them toward remaining a 'stable' individual, possibly encouraging them to become more driven.

It is true that the frontal lobe of the brain often doesn't reach full maturity until the mid 20s, and this region is responsible for well... responsible decision making in light of potential risks/rewards with a moral compass to help weigh decisions.

But just because it's not fully developed until around age 25, doesn't mean people younger than that have no capability to make sound judgment. It has to be nurtured, which requires parenting and educators to take a responsible path.

What schools have been doing as of late, is the exact opposite of the responsible path. They are indirectly encouraging these kids to develop even slower, remain immature for far longer than necessary.

When I went to school, and at the school district I went to, I feel the education was just. I was punished appropriately, and rewarded justly.
Hell, I received an F on a 4th grade coloring assignment, until the issue was raised that I am in fact plagued with Color Deficiency.

 

[sandmanwake]

This is extremely unfair to those who actually scored a 59, I propose they get an automatic 6 point bonus to put them on the passing mark. Stand with me people!

No way man, I say if people fail, let them fail. We need a population of people who can't do anything else but manual labor. Everyone is so "educated" now it makes a BS the new high school diploma.

I say, let people fail so that this country has a steady population of manual laborers--at some point it'll be just as cheap to employ those here than overseas for manufacturing jobs.

By the way, what school did you go to where 65 was passing?

 

[TecHNooB]

No way man, I say if people fail, let them fail. We need a population of people who can't do anything else but manual labor. Everyone is so "educated" now it makes a BS the new high school diploma.

I say, let people fail so that this country has a steady population of manual laborers--at some point it'll be just as cheap to employ those here than overseas for manufacturing jobs.

By the way, what school did you go to where 65 was passing?

Is a D not passing?

 

[sjwaste]

Does it really matter? It's not like anyone consistently making those scores is college-bound. It more or less allows someone to rebound from a disaster, but really anything that low means you didn't make any effort to learn the material. I'd almost be okay with "rounding" up to 59 once per class per school year. Everyone has a blower every once in a while and it's not like its suddenly pushing the kids at the top for their places at universities.