Horrible new grading policy being tested in schools

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Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
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Social promotion saves tax money. This policy simply moves the kids through the system w/ minimal fuss. If parents don't care about their kids' education why should anyone else?

Actually it costs money because education has been reduced to a numbers game with every school district trying to get the test scores necessary to qualify for various Federal spending schemes like No Child Left Behind. If they really cared they would shutdown the Department of Education and never remove that money from the states in the first place.
 

Matthiasa

Diamond Member
May 4, 2009
5,755
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I remember one game she described involve a map of the U.S, each child is given a state, and each child takes a turn trying to find that state on a map. If they child has a difficulty then they can be helped. After each child turn they are clapped and told they won. Each child is clapped and told they won.

Thats so not a game. :(
Thats just extra teaching in a form the kids might not hate as much.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
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Why does it matter, a fail is a fail. Not like we need to know who extra failed.

Before, if a student got 2%'s his first half of school and 90%'s his second half, the student would average a 46%, still failing. Now, the average will be a 74.5%, a passing grade which gives children hope that they can still make up for their previous mistakes. People in this thread obviously have no care for the future of children that need extra help, and would rather see them become crackhead homeless people. No empathy. :(
 

Leros

Lifer
Jul 11, 2004
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Before, if a student got 2%'s his first half of school and 90%'s his second half, the student would average a 46%, still failing. Now, the average will be a 74.5%, a passing grade which gives children hope that they can still make up for their previous mistakes. People in this thread obviously have no care for the future of children that need extra help, and would rather see them become crackhead homeless people. No empathy. :(

You don't get to make up for your mistakes. I see all these whiny kids in college who forget to turn assignments in and then complain when the teacher won't cut them a break.

Man up and accept your failures.

If you know you're accountable for everything you do, maybe you won't screw it up in the first place.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
318
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You don't get to make up for your mistakes. I see all these whiny kids in college who forget to turn assignments in and then complain when the teacher won't cut them a break.

Man up and accept your failures.

If you know you're accountable for everything you do, maybe you won't screw it up in the first place.

But they're just children, how can they? The average sixteen year old isn't even capable of comprehending the consequences of committing murder or child rape, and you expect them to have their entire school year planned ahead of time? This is simply too much a burden on our children. No wonder suicides and school shootings are so prevalent. :(
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
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Actually it costs money because education has been reduced to a numbers game with every school district trying to get the test scores necessary to qualify for various Federal spending schemes like No Child Left Behind. If they really cared they would shutdown the Department of Education and never remove that money from the states in the first place.

In JLee's thread about property taxes I noticed that a lot people are only paying ~$2k per year (or less!) in property taxes. The average cost of education is ~$7k per year per student. Property taxes cover more than just schools. Either these people live in areas with a very high ratio of adults to children or they're benefiting from an outside funding source.

In short, be careful what you wish for - the people who want to leave the money in the states are more likely to be from the states that benefit the most from the federal government's redistribution of money. Blue states get screwed, red states benefit.
 

l0cke

Diamond Member
Dec 12, 2005
3,790
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Hmmm, at my school it is the opposite. If you get too many questions wrong at first the teacher will just give you a 0 and move on.
 

Leros

Lifer
Jul 11, 2004
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But they're just children, how can they? The average sixteen year old isn't even capable of comprehending the consequences of committing murder or child rape, and you expect them to have their entire school year planned ahead of time? This is simply too much a burden on our children. No wonder suicides and school shootings are so prevalent. :(

I hope that's sarcasm.
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
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no then they just have a higher chance of ending up in jail, and we pay for them anyway

How about we just kick them in the junk then? Eventually the stupidest will no longer be able to reproduce and will thus be weeded out. I'm willing to help carry that cost for two or three generations.
 

Mike Gayner

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2007
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Does anyone have any reason to believe this is actually happening, beyond the OP's wife's alleged conversation?
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
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Does anyone have any reason to believe this is actually happening, beyond the OP's wife's alleged conversation?

Have you met some of the most recent products of the public education system? That should remove all doubt.

It really needs to be ok to tell kids to stop being stupid. They SHOULD feel bad about being stupid. Being stupid is not a good thing, it's not ok and it is their fault.
 
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Mike Gayner

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2007
6,175
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Have you met some of the most recent products of the public education system? That should remove all doubt.

It really needs to be ok to tell kids to stop being stupid. They SHOULD feel bad about being stupid. Being stupid is not a good thing, it's not ok and it is their fault.

I know America is a massively fucked country in a lot of respects, but this seems far fetched. All I'm saying is that I'm not going to believe this is happening just because some random internet guy's wife was told second hand about it. Does anyone have a link to verify this?
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
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I know America is a massively fucked country in a lot of respects, but this seems far fetched. All I'm saying is that I'm not going to believe this is happening just because some random internet guy's wife was told second hand about it. Does anyone have a link to verify this?

A link to verify this? Because being written on the Internet makes it true? Seriously?
 

Sphexi

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2005
7,280
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Why does it matter, a fail is a fail. Not like we need to know who extra failed.

QFT....anything lower than a 60 is going to be a F grade, doesn't matter if it's 59% or 0%. Point is they failed, try again next time.
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
11
81
QFT....anything lower than a 60 is going to be a F grade, doesn't matter if it's 59% or 0%. Point is they failed, try again next time.

There's a difference between being wrong 2/3 of the time or all the time.
 

Leros

Lifer
Jul 11, 2004
21,867
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Does anyone have any reason to believe this is actually happening, beyond the OP's wife's alleged conversation?

I've talked to a teacher from Colorado who's district was making this move.

They also added a policy that you can turn homework in past the due date without losing any points. Needless to say, all the teachers were pissed off.
 

Mike Gayner

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2007
6,175
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Found some info on it. When you here their justification it's actually not as bad as it sounds - it's about giving kids who bomb in a certain assessment a chance of catching up, where it would otherwise be mathematically impossible for that child to pass. Actually I think it's quite a smart scheme.

Their argument: Other letter grades — A, B, C and D — are broken down in increments of 10 from 60 to 100, but there is a 59-point spread between D and F, a gap that can often make it mathematically impossible for some failing students to ever catch up.

"It's a classic mathematical dilemma: that the students have a six times greater chance of getting an F," says Douglas Reeves, founder of The Leadership and Learning Center, a Colorado-based educational think tank who has written on the topic. "The statistical tweak of saying the F is now 50 instead of zero is a tiny part of how we can have better grading practices to encourage student performance."
 

Leros

Lifer
Jul 11, 2004
21,867
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That argument is stupid.

There is at least a 1 point increment. Individual grades are kept as a number between 0 - 100, then added up into the final average.

Example: A student earns a 43, which is in a F. It is not recorded as a 0, it is recorded as a 43.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
44
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Found some info on it. When you here their justification it's actually not as bad as it sounds - it's about giving kids who bomb in a certain assessment a chance of catching up, where it would otherwise be mathematically impossible for that child to pass. Actually I think it's quite a smart scheme.
Their argument: Other letter grades — A, B, C and D — are broken down in increments of 10 from 60 to 100, but there is a 59-point spread between D and F, a gap that can often make it mathematically impossible for some failing students to ever catch up.

"It's a classic mathematical dilemma: that the students have a six times greater chance of getting an F," says Douglas Reeves, founder of The Leadership and Learning Center, a Colorado-based educational think tank who has written on the topic. "The statistical tweak of saying the F is now 50 instead of zero is a tiny part of how we can have better grading practices to encourage student performance."

This is faulty reasoning based on a piss-poor understanding of mathematics.

The assumption is that a certain minimum amount of knowledge of the entire subject materials of the course is necessary to pass the course overall. In the case of the current grading system, that is roughly 62% of the material (unless schools have dumbed down the 92-100 = A, 82-92 = B, 72-82 = C, etc standard with which I grew up).

In that scenario, a person who got 0% on half the assignments and 100% on the other half would receive a 50% final grade and would thereby fail the class. This is deserved because they clearly only understood half the course material, not the 62% of the material that is required to minimally pass the class.

Using the new system, the same student with the same performance would have an overall score of 75% (assuming 50% was the minimum grade). So, despite only having a functional understanding of half the course material (and therefore earning a true 50% failing score overall for the class), the student would be credited with a 75% score and a C grade. That's not better for the student.

This second situation allows students to pass with a sub-par understanding of curricula and artificially promotes them through the grade levels. This creates a situation in which such students are increasingly unable to cope with the higher level courses (since they are passed along despite insufficient understanding of their previous courses) and leads to greater and more significant failures at higher levels. Not only is this bad for the affected students who suffer from an ever more crippling lack of foundational knowledge, but it is also bad for the other students who actually are achieving at the appropriate levels as once the unprepared students who benefit from this plan are advanced, they monopolize teachers' resources which inhibits teachers' ability to provide quality education for those students who actually have the understanding to make use of it.

Furthermore, it is virtually impossible to earn (and yes, even when a student receives a 0%, that's the grade he has earned) less than a 50% on an assignment unless a student is either wholly unable to comprehend even the most basic portions of the curriculum (in which case that student should be held back for his own educational well-being), or the student simply doesn't care enough to make even a perfunctory effort (in which case the student clearly doesn't deserve to be moved forward and thereby consume educational resources which would be better directed towards children who actually want to learn). A student who gets below 50% on assignments is either academically out of his depth (in which case promoting him is detrimental to his own educational development) or simply not serious about his own education (in which case promoting him is detrimental to the education of others).

The only students this sort of system will help are those students who aren't going to be either able or willing to take advantage of it.

ZV