You can be a powerful speaker with a bad message, that is how tyrants are made. You can't be that ignorant. He didn't suggest that at all, he used his speech to tie the Jews to different problems Germany was facing to round up support for what he later had envisioned as a final solution. There is a difference between going "You robbed my house, and because you robbed my house I am going to kill you" and "You are getting what you deserve *bam*". Not even sure why you continue to argue this when we both know you will not be able to actually produce anything besides your own opinion over his speeches. While a valid opinion is one I think is wrong and does not actually do justice to understanding exactly what Hitler did, something that needs to be understood and not ignored (as you wish to do) due to the fact that tyrants and dictators can still appear in the world.
You can be a powerful speaker with a bad message, that is how tyrants are made. You can't be that ignorant. He didn't suggest that at all, he used his speech to tie the Jews to different problems Germany was facing to round up support for what he later had envisioned as a final solution. There is a difference between going "You robbed my house, and because you robbed my house I am going to kill you" and "You are getting what you deserve *bam*". Not even sure why you continue to argue this when we both know you will not be able to actually produce anything besides your own opinion over his speeches. While a valid opinion is one I think is wrong and does not actually do justice to understanding exactly what Hitler did, something that needs to be understood and not ignored (as you wish to do) due to the fact that tyrants and dictators can still appear in the world.
My "You can't be ignorant" reference was to the statement that it followed. You have to resort to cutting up phrases now?
As I said, he didn't say "they were getting what they deserve" You said you had a ton of never before seen quotes that would prove me wrong, I'm still waiting.
It is sad that there are so many Neocons are in AT.
Israel do no wrong --- its the Hamas started the fight
Israelis do no wrong --- its the Palestinian are the evil doers
Jews do no wrong --- its the fault of the teenagers stone thrower
Zionist do no wrong --- because the world is antisemitic
I like to ask the Neocons in this forum & the "Common Courtesy? mod one question.
What would you do if the next door farmer neighbor throw rocks at you because you built your house on their land illegal? Do you shoot the farmer & their children because you claim that it is them that started the rock throwing?
Anyone with a common sense (or courtesy) would get a mediator to start a dialog, and return the land to the rightful owner if hope & peace is what they seek.
Israel do no wrong --- its the Hamas started the fight
Israelis do no wrong --- its the Palestinian are the evil doers
Jews do no wrong --- its the fault of the teenagers stone thrower
Zionist do no wrong --- because the world is antisemitic
I like to ask the Neocons in this forum & the "Common Courtesy? mod one question.
What would you do if the next door farmer neighbor throw rocks at you because you built your house on their land illegal? Do you shoot the farmer & their children because you claim that it is them that started the rock throwing?
Anyone with a common sense (or courtesy) would get a mediator to start a dialog, and return the land to the rightful owner if hope & peace is what they seek.
theflyingpig
Banned
- Mar 9, 2008
- 5,616
- 18
- 0
Such amazing foolishness. The entire US is built on someone elses land, and we are not giving it back. We were able to take it because we are stronger than those we took it from, just as the Israelis are stronger than the Palestinians. The Palestinians will never get all of their land back. They should be happy with what they have. The longer they continue their madness, the longer they will continue to be slaughtered.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
What would you think of the idea of us in the US to putting Mexico under military occupation and denying civil rights to the millions of people there, and colonizing their homeland for ourselves while killing off anyone who gets in our way?
I don't see how that could be argued as anything but foolish, but that is what Israel has been doing in Palestine for decades now.
And yeah, nice addition on the Commandments there NoShangriLa. I wonder how many people understand that the might makes right argument used to justify Israel's conquest over Palestine is effectively satanism.
mrSHEiK124
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2004
- 11,488
- 2
- 0
"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
"This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy." And people make fun of Muslims...
-- Golda Meir, Le Monde, 15 October 1971
"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.
"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.
Out of their mouths, not mine. You're deluded if you can rationalize "Israel just wants to be left alone." I'm certain a whole bunch of Israelis might want to be left alone, but definitely not their leadership, not in the past, nor in the present.
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
"This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy." And people make fun of Muslims...
-- Golda Meir, Le Monde, 15 October 1971
"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.
"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.
Out of their mouths, not mine. You're deluded if you can rationalize "Israel just wants to be left alone." I'm certain a whole bunch of Israelis might want to be left alone, but definitely not their leadership, not in the past, nor in the present.
theflyingpig
Banned
- Mar 9, 2008
- 5,616
- 18
- 0
LOL. We did take land from Mexico. Are we giving it back? No. If they tried to take it back, by launching rocket attacks against our border towns, we would slaughter them like the Israelis are slaughtering the Palestinians.
If I was born in a home 300 years after Europeans took it, am I as guilty as them? What if I live in parts of Europe that use to belong to Greek, but were taken back by the barbarians. Does Greek have a claim to my land? Should people in Mexico seek out ancestors of the Aztecs and return land to them as well? Would you support all of humanity returning to a little area in Africa (if that theory is correct of course) so that we can reverse every action in history?
You accuse people of being blind for Israel when you are just as blind to Israels plight. It is almost amusing the amount of hypocritical speak that comes from people who sympathize with Hamas, and cheer wildly at there actions. From Dahunan accusing people of being bias (as he goes off on Israels every post), TheSnowman accusing people of being close minded (When he himself fails to see that the actions of Hamas are a perfect example of the the end does not justify the means and never will) and you attempting to label people when labels fit you so perfectly.
If skimming this thread is any indication it's pretty clear there's not going to be any peace there.
What do you think helped spark the late 30's revolt? Jewish immigration into the area. Only after the revolt and realizing the true intent of Nazi Germany did the British limit jewish immigration.
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem played a huge role in the formation of Arab nationalism. It isnt like he is a nobody.
You are right. They started out with throwing rock then it escalated to bombs.
Again, Jew did no wrong and all of the sudden the crazy Arab terrorists strap bomb to their body and blow themselves up at markets for fun.
PS. Which part of the Jew 10 commandments don't you understand, and which part of American Castle Law don't you understand?
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
We are not in the process of talking land from Mexico, while Israel is in the process of colonizing Palestine while denying civil rights to the millions of people there, and killing off anyone who gets in the way.
Do you not comprehend the difference between history and ongoing reality?
JEDIYoda
Lifer
- Jul 13, 2005
- 33,986
- 3,321
- 126
Israel does just want to be left alone!!
There is no dilusion at all!!
In fact if you were truthful you would fill in the blanks instead of your one sides account of what past Israeli leaders said!!
Israel as a nation has traded land for peace over and over and over they have been willing to do so!!
Yet invariably down the line an Arab group or a recognized Arab group breaks that Peace.....
As I stated and you know it`s the truth....
Dis-arm the arabs and 100years from now the Arabs will still be in the Middle east!
Dis -- arm the Israeli`s and 100 years from now you there will NOT be a nation of Israel anywhere to be found!...hmmm
mrSHEiK124
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2004
- 11,488
- 2
- 0
No, really, you are. YOU'RE, not your. What about his too much?
They are well documented quotes, you can pull those books out of a library if you like. Past Israeli leaders? Ariel Sharon was the 2nd most recent PM of Israel...those don't sound like the quotes of someone who wants to be left alone at all.
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,589
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Everyone can find quotes and stastics that can be used to buttress up their own arguments.
Quotes can also be selective, taken out of context, outdated or by the opposition that match up with ones perspective.
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