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Hong Kong.... Fighting for democracy

sportage

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2008
7,655
543
126
America needs to sit up and take notice.
Hong Kong are fighting for their democracy and freedom while over here Donald Trump is hell bent on taking away our democracy and freedom.
Take note of Hong Kong and what the end result looks like when democracy is under attack.
People are very upset, riots, the incredible protests to get their democracy back.
Lets just hope that Americans will wake up before it is too late, and our citizen must resort to protesting and riots in the street.
You don't want Donald Trump to take away your freedom and democracy and leave America no choice but to respond in th same way as those over in Hong Kong.
Our big mistake would be sleeping, ignoring, and not caring until its too late for us too.
And that is exactly where we are headed.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
53,189
2,373
126
How can the Hong Kongers be surprised at the way China is responding? It's not like the Chicoms have a long history of accepting protests...or caving to their demands.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,228
975
126
I agree. We're heading to someplace much worse than you, myself and anyone else could ever imagine if Trump gets another 4 years in office. ;)
Well it means that somehow, impossibly, that Democrats will have found someone to run and lose in 2020 that was even worse than Hillary Clinton in 2016. We would be "somewhere much worse" if our choices in 2020 are even more horrendous than last go-around, which I quite frankly think is impossible and akin to developing a machine that cools objects below absolute zero temperature.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
27,820
1,669
126
Well it means that somehow, impossibly, that Democrats will have found someone to run and lose in 2020 that was even worse than Hillary Clinton in 2016. We would be "somewhere much worse" if our choices in 2020 are even more horrendous than last go-around, which I quite frankly think is impossible and akin to developing a machine that cools objects below absolute zero temperature.
Just so I get this straight, you still believe Hilary would have been worse than Trump?
I underrated if you felt that way when voting, but I'm asking about right now. You think that Hillary would be worse than Trump at this point?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
33,761
3,471
126
Just so I get this straight, you still believe Hilary would have been worse than Trump?
I underrated if you felt that way when voting, but I'm asking about right now. You think that Hillary would be worse than Trump at this point?
That's like asking someone without a brain if they have one.
 

kn51

Senior member
Aug 16, 2012
516
54
91
Just so I get this straight, you still believe Hilary would have been worse than Trump?
I underrated if you felt that way when voting, but I'm asking about right now. You think that Hillary would be worse than Trump at this point?
I'll go out on a limb here, I basically read that he meant Hillary was the worst pick out of the group.

Who knows if she would have been a better president (probably a YES) but man there were forces involved that turned off a lot voters and hence the situation we are in.

And also implying history will repeat itself because of, well you know, the circus going on.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
20,451
5,407
136
Just so I get this straight, you still believe Hilary would have been worse than Trump?
I underrated if you felt that way when voting, but I'm asking about right now. You think that Hillary would be worse than Trump at this point?
I have a followup to that question, exactly in what way would Hillary have been worse? Be specific.
 

Denly

Senior member
May 14, 2011
971
72
91
I grow up in HK, and I tried to keep a close eye into the "event". It is way more complicated than it look from the outside. First HK always has freedom but never has democracy, what HKer(and others) afraid was the extradition bill that can give China power to get anyone they want rather it is westerner, HKer or Taiwanese. After a series of events now the demand are withdraw the bills, investigate in police abuse of power and the "figure head" resign. Independent/democracy were never on the table except for some extremist, everyone knows it never going to happen.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
5,902
2,011
116
I grow up in HK, and I tried to keep a close eye into the "event". It is way more complicated than it look from the outside. First HK always has freedom but never has democracy, what HKer(and others) afraid was the extradition bill that can give China power to get anyone they want rather it is westerner, HKer or Taiwanese. After a series of events now the demand are withdraw the bills, investigate in police abuse of power and the "figure head" resign. Independent/democracy were never on the table except for some extremist, everyone knows it never going to happen.
Stay safe. The skeptics among us see another Tiananmen Square coming.
 

quikah

Platinum Member
Apr 7, 2003
2,977
128
106
How can the Hong Kongers be surprised at the way China is responding? It's not like the Chicoms have a long history of accepting protests...or caving to their demands.
China isn't actually doing anything yet (at least not publicly). It is all still local HK government still. Though how much is CCP pulling strings is up to speculation.

This is actually a pretty important event, has nothing to do with US politics, so all the Trump bashing has no place here. One thing, the trade war may indirectly be helping HK protests.
 

Denly

Senior member
May 14, 2011
971
72
91
Stay safe. The skeptics among us see another Tiananmen Square coming.
As a Canadian for 30yrs I think I am as safe as I can in Toronto lol but thanks, most of my families and frds mention that mostly life go on other then those isolated area.

As for TS coming, IMHO it is no going to happen.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
5,902
2,011
116
As a Canadian for 30yrs I think I am as safe as I can in Toronto lol but thanks, most of my families and frds mention that mostly life go on other then those isolated area.

As for TS coming, IMHO it is no going to happen.
Understood, glad you're okay.

I hope you're right, like I said, I'm a skeptic :p
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
24,582
4,160
126
I'll go out on a limb here, I basically read that he meant Hillary was the worst pick out of the group.

Who knows if she would have been a better president (probably a YES) but man there were forces involved that turned off a lot voters and hence the situation we are in.

And also implying history will repeat itself because of, well you know, the circus going on.
Those forces at work were Russians. People turned off by those forces were morons.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
28,210
2,139
126
Lets just hope that Americans will wake up before it is too late, and our citizen must resort to protesting and riots in the street.
You want Americans to wake up and... do what?
One might imagine needing to protest and riot in the streets.

Though I suspect you mean Americans should wake up and vote differently. Polarization makes it very difficult for entrenched voters to see errors on their side of the line. And our government is split by design meaning no single election grants the victor control to make good on campaign promises - even if they wanted to. End result is, Americans can vote FOR change... but little will or can be changed.

Ergo, I imagine the line I quoted is... contradictory. It's actually easier to tear ourselves apart than it is to truly "win" an election in America. That, I think, is the fatal flaw in the American form of government.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,228
975
126
Just so I get this straight, you still believe Hilary would have been worse than Trump?
I underrated if you felt that way when voting, but I'm asking about right now. You think that Hillary would be worse than Trump at this point?
She was a terrible candidate. I'm guessing that very few people could do worse at being POTUS than Trump and have no doubt Hillary wouldn't be worse, but that's a ridiculously low bar to clear.

I have a followup to that question, exactly in what way would Hillary have been worse? Be specific.
See above. I personally think Hillary would have been a below average POTUS had she been elected, with an arc similar to Jimmy Carter's. Her instincts on foreign policy have been proven fairly poor for example. That being said, Jimmy Carter is still heaps better than Trump despite the former sucking at being president.

Getting back to OP, I think you need to go for a walk and get some fresh air. Trump is a rolling disaster but he'll hardly be the end of the republic. He's the U.S. version of Berlusconi who will be seen to be a detour to stupidity for a while but otherwise leave zero traces like a fart in a hurricane. Whoever takes over for him will bring a sense of normalcy back although some successors would obviously be much better for that purpose than others.
 
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blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
18,181
257
126
We know enough about Hilary's work history and Trump's to answer that question. It's called an educated guess.
Coulda woulda shoulda. It makes no difference except for trolls like you that just bring it up to argue.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
17,530
12,904
136
How can the Hong Kongers be surprised at the way China is responding? It's not like the Chicoms have a long history of accepting protests...or caving to their demands.
I'd say that their response so far has been rather muted
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
11,116
1,506
126
I'll go out on a limb here, I basically read that he meant Hillary was the worst pick out of the group.

Who knows if she would have been a better president (probably a YES) but man there were forces involved that turned off a lot voters and hence the situation we are in.

And also implying history will repeat itself because of, well you know, the circus going on.
It's called Russian interference.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
10,647
2,456
136
Is China about to roll in on Hong Kong?
I mean when Putin can get away with Crimea and continue to finger Ukraine on the eastern front ... I guess China taking Hong Kong is small potatoes.
Right?
 

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