honestly im not happy with tank guys anymore

[Some1ne]

1 - If my supplier calls me up and says, "Ben, I've got 300 E6600's for $360, do you want them?" I would say NO. If I only charged $350 for them, why on earth would I pay $360 for them? So, in this case, I don't buy any, and nobody gets orders filled, since I'm still waiting for better priced processors from another supplier. No change in ETA.

2 - Same scenerio, but this time, I tell customers that if they want to pay more, they can, and I'll get them chips. 20 people say yes, they will pay more. I then order 20 of those chips at the higher price, and ship to those 20 customers. The customers who did not pay extra now have 20 fewer people in line, so they get moved up a bit, for doing nothing. Now, we've moved more inventory, so now Intel/Distributors take us a bit more seriously, and speed up allocation and/or drop prices back down, both of which make it easier to fill orders.

Furthermore, if I am able to secure inventory at the lower price, I give NO preference to people willing to pay more, nor will I charge them more.

Well now it seems mostly like the initial e-mail was just poorly worded. However, I still think that people who do not wish to pay extra, and who do not want to wait an indefinite amount of time for suppliers to drop their prices should at this point be able to cancel their orders without penalty.

Really it seems like what would be least confusing (if it didn't require extra IT work) is that there should be a second Core 2 E6600 product page added, which reflects the higher price, and anyone so inclined can cancel their existing order without penalty, and then place a new order on the second page if they want (and the $350 Core 2 page should probably no longer allow additional pre-orders, until prices fall back down). That way it seems somewhat less like you're getting supply in regardless, and just choosing to ship only to people who pay extra (provided that the second page makes it clear that the more expensive chips are purchased on demand only...if they actually do come in regardless, then the existing orders should really be honored on the first-come, first-served basis).

 

[srs]

Originally posted by: TankGuys
Allow me to explain (yet again ) why this isn't "Bad" for anyone:

1 - If my supplier calls me up and says, "Ben, I've got 300 E6600's for $360, do you want them?" I would say NO. If I only charged $350 for them, why on earth would I pay $360 for them? So, in this case, I don't buy any, and nobody gets orders filled, since I'm still waiting for better priced processors from another supplier. No change in ETA.

Well, if the current market prices are $380 and you have 20 preorders @ $350, you would still turn a profit by filling the preorders at below cost, and selling the rest at market prices.

That's the reason people preorder... to protect themselves from market prices at launch, safe in the knowledge that the seller cannot start moving stuff at a higher price before their order is filled.

You'd have been perfectly justified in adopting a "you'll get it when you get it" line and waiting for your supplier prices to come down, but what you (unintentionally) did was tell people that you misjudged the market prices, and that if they were willing to pay the higher price they could escape the line, but if they wanted to cancel they would still have to pay the 5% fee.

I think you were just a bit too eager to help people without fully working out the implications.

 

[River Side]

Originally posted by: TankGuys
1 - If my supplier calls me up and says, "Ben, I've got 300 E6600's for $360, do you want them?" I would say NO.

when u have something for a pre-order you are basically saying I WILL have these and for a given price. Everyone knows what Intel's prices were. They all agreed to pay whatever price you marked them up for and by accepting their order you agreed to supply them the CPU at that price. PERIOD. End of Story.

IF the supplier had come around saying.. Ben I've got E6600's for $320 would u refund people the extra they paid? What if nothing had happened but someone would have just come up and said... Ben i'd like this processor for $15 less now cuz i see some people are getting it for that much.. would u just give them a discount or ask them to honor their pre-order? If they cancelled due to not getting that discount, wouldn't u charge them a cancellation fee?

From the looks of it, if you can't fullfil an order, it's YOU who should be paying a cancellation fee to the buyer.

 

[Captante]

This is what happens when you try to be a nice guy & explain things to customers ... unfortuately as has already been stated, the best thing to do would have been to not send out the e-mail & just hold the pre-orders until they could be filled at the agreed upon price point... would have saved a lot of grief!

In any case the damage is done ... nothing to do but live with the fallout... I'd suggest waiving the 5% cancellation fee in this case, because although I believe the explanation given is the truth, theres just no way to convince some folks & it might just shut them up & help salvage your reputation.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: Pantoot

Originally posted by: buzzsaw13

I can understand why everyone who fronted money to them feels slighted, but I cannot understand the foaming at the mouth that exists at their site.

If you think they are being shady, cancel the order, lesson learned and move on.

I am one of those people and don't think they are being shady at all. I have always been happy with their personalized service, this is a company that does things like letting people choose their stepping and such.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: n7

Originally posted by: shamans
Isn't a pre-order still an order that must be fulfilled at some specified later date?

Why did they promise if they can't deliver? (assuming they actually specified a date for customers when they pre-ordered).

It's still a contract, irregardless of whatever other circumstances that passed (unless extreme).

If it was up to me, I'd offer a free one-time cancellation (due to extreme circumstances). ie. if you can't offer the goods, then don't take the money.

Supplier raising prices does not imply that you're not obligated to fulfill your contract with your customer.

OMG...

They didn't specify a date by which the pre-orders would be fulfilled.
That was clearly stated on the page for the pre-orders.
It was even bolded IIRC; i remember seeing it a number of times on the main pre-order page.

Those who pre-ordered are still going to get the CPU they ordered at the same goddamn time as they would have.

Ben is merely offering some E6600s for a bit more since some people were asking if he could get some in, but for more.

The sad thing is, if he'd been smart, he never would sent out this email, & the idiots whining now woulda never known any better.
Instead though, he decides to be honest with his customers, & they whine their dumb asses off.

Unbelievable.

Exactly, although a nearly 20 dollar fee to cancel a pre-order on an e6600 is excessive in my view. Moreso when your pre-order there is preventing you from getting it someplace else that has them in stock

 

[C Dub]

A pre-order is supposed to do two things:

1) Ensure your place in line so that you can get the hot new item before others
2) Lock you into a price so that in the event of price increases you are safe.

These are services that a business provides to its customers as a reward for their business. There are already plenty of people who HAVE their processors in hand, so TankGuys has already failed on the first point. If a customer elects not to pay the higher price, then they still hold true to #2, but make #1 worse.

Most larger businesses would learn from the mistake they made and eat the loss in order to keep their customers happy.

Personally, I didn't order from TankGuys for a different reason. I read all the great reviews and was ready to place a near $5000 order. However about a month ago I emailed them with a question twice (once using the "leave a message/live help" tool on their site, and once through actual email) and never got a response to either inquiry. That didn't seem like good service to me, so I went elsewhere. Now that I have already received all my parts, I am happy about that decision.

I notice on TankGuys you can no longer place an order for any Core 2 chips. Probably a wise move on their part.

 

[LMR]

While I support TankGuys generally for what it's known for - participation in forums, outstanding customer services, etc., this fiasco is no one but Tankguys' fault. And thankfully for tankguys, there are many forummers like me who support you. But for everybody's sake, I'd like to do some reality check.

1. Like others mentioned, people place pre-order to get products early, without going through the hassle of price-gouging. (Think XBOX360)

2. For all intents and purposes, 5% cancelation charge on unfulfilled orders cannot be justified. When you sign up with whatever agent that does credit card transaction, I'm sure you're told the policy. There are prices to pay using credit card transaction service and it's most likely already reflected in the listed prices. If you do not want to pay fees, then you shouldn't take credit card payment. You can still get paid by money orders or checks, etc. which doesn't involving "fees" you have to pay. But you still choose to use credit card companies because you know otherwise you can't do this online business. On top of that I don't think any credit card company would let you take 5% fee for a unfullfiled (for almost month and a half?) order. It's like you asking customers to pay for your sales tax. And you hold the money during that time. Don't forget that customers also pay fees (interest) to the credit card companies. Depending on one's billing cycle, that could be 2 billing cycles and depending on the APR, the interest one should pay might even be bigger than the fees you have to pay.

3. And I don't know how you come up with 5% figure, either. I also get paid by credit cards often times and the fees are more or less 2~3%.

4. Now, your suppliers asked for more. I do trust you but the fact is that we only have your words here. I wouldn't go as far as asking you to scan the invoices from your suppliers and post them as proof. The point is that we have no way of verifying current situation other than following your words. This could be hard to swallow for some.

5. Assuming what you said is truth, it's more of a problem between you and the suppliers, not one between you and customers. Before you go out to talk to your customers, you should confront the suppliers first. (Can't comment further on this because I do not know what kind of contracts you and your suppliers had) But I can't help wondering what you did with the money customers paid up front over a month ago.

6. Therefore the main excuse (speeding up things for everybody) became suspicious/upsetting to some. (I sincerely hope you don't make this kind of mistake any more.) They do not care about the deal you had with your suppliers. They do care about the deal between them and you. Of course many here, including myself, are more understanding thanks to your previous forum participation but for other folks, they have a very good reason to get upset.

7. "ETA" (No-ETA, more precisely): This is certainly a valid point you can bring up to defend yourself and indeed is a very strong one. But also there is something called "common sense" attached to "pre-order" and while people might not argue against you for this specific matter but they will remember the way it will have been treated. Like someone exampled above, if things had gone well and you were able to secure the supplies at much lower cost than what you sold them for via pre-order. Will the extra profit be returned to the customers?

I'm sure you regret the whole thing at this point but at the beginning it was a decent opportunity to widen your clientele, for sure. Intel screwed things up and little guys like you get hurt. I couldn't help but sympatetic thinking if I were in your shoes. Since you stood up and suggested a more reasonable solution, let's hope this settles quickly and be forgetten by all of us. People should give more credit for TankGuys for what they have done for us. And they certainly deserve a benifit of doubt on this one, IMHO. For TankGuys, what I've said above is for help, believe it or not. I haven't bought anything from you but I wanted to show that people can be very difficult, especially when it comes to money. (I'm sure you already know this through all the screams and moans in your mailbox)

Let's just blame Intel.

 

[Technonut]

2. For all intents and purposes, 5% cancelation charge on unfulfilled orders cannot be justified. When you sign up with whatever agent that does credit card transaction, I'm sure you're told the policy. There are prices to pay using credit card transaction service and it's most likely already reflected in the listed prices. If you do not want to pay fees, then you shouldn't take credit card payment. You can still get paid by money orders or checks, etc. which doesn't involving "fees" you have to pay. But you still choose to use credit card companies because you know otherwise you can't do this online business. On top of that I don't think any credit card company would let you take 5% fee for a unfullfiled (for almost month and a half?) order. It's like you asking customers to pay for your sales tax. And you hold the money during that time. Don't forget that customers also pay fees (interest) to the credit card companies. Depending on one's billing cycle, that could be 2 billing cycles and depending on the APR, the interest one should pay might even be bigger than the fees you have to pay.

QFT.....

If I were involved in this transaction, and charged 5% to cancel due to the merchant's supply problem, I would immediately dispute the charge. Personally, I would not have allowed my card to be hit for a pre-order to begin with. IMO, the customer's cards should not have been charged any amount until stock was available, and the items ready to ship. It is not good practice to gather and use other people's money unless you have possession of the goods.

 

[TankGuys]

Originally posted by: LMR
...this fiasco is no one but Tankguys' fault...

Interesting way to start Can people assign blame to us? Sure. But to imply it's COMPLETELY our fault isn't quite fair. I can't control the supply chain, wholesale prices, or any of that... I'm just doing the best I can within the constraints that I have to work.

[LMR
1. Like others mentioned, people place pre-order to get products early, without going through the hassle of price-gouging. (Think XBOX360)

Agreed, which is why we were not cancelling earlier orders. We had been filling them, just slowly. This option was to help speed the process, it was not to exclude those not willing to do so. Furthermore, a lot of people have already gotten processors from us, so it is not like we hadn't shipped anything and were holding everyone hostage - we were filling orders as quickly as we can.

[LMR
2. For all intents and purposes, 5% cancelation charge on unfulfilled orders cannot be justified. When you sign up with whatever agent that does credit card transaction, I'm sure you're told the policy. There are prices to pay using credit card transaction service and it's most likely already reflected in the listed prices. If you do not want to pay fees, then you shouldn't take credit card payment. You can still get paid by money orders or checks, etc. which doesn't involving "fees" you have to pay. But you still choose to use credit card companies because you know otherwise you can't do this online business. On top of that I don't think any credit card company would let you take 5% fee for a unfullfiled (for almost month and a half?) order. It's like you asking customers to pay for your sales tax. And you hold the money during that time. Don't forget that customers also pay fees (interest) to the credit card companies. Depending on one's billing cycle, that could be 2 billing cycles and depending on the APR, the interest one should pay might even be bigger than the fees you have to pay.

All of which are legitimate points, but the cancellation fee was made very explicit, and I had explained the purpose of it from day one. Furthermore, we gave every single customer the option of NOT paying right away. I did not, in any way, force anyone to pay right away. They were told, correctly, that if they wanted to pay early, it would speed things up a bit since I wouldn't have to track them down later, but with that deal came the downside of a cancellation fee and a long wait. None of this was hidden from our customers... and yes, the CC companies would, in fact, stand by it for me in this case, as it was made clear, and we did not "force" people to accept it.

[LMR
3. And I don't know how you come up with 5% figure, either. I also get paid by credit cards often times and the fees are more or less 2~3%.

2.5% on average, for each transaction. Billing, AND refund. 2 x 2.5%. That's where the 5% came from, and again, this was made clear for everyone.

[LMR
4. Now, your suppliers asked for more. I do trust you but the fact is that we only have your words here. I wouldn't go as far as asking you to scan the invoices from your suppliers and post them as proof. The point is that we have no way of verifying current situation other than following your words. This could be hard to swallow for some.

Indeed, some people may not believe it, I don't blame them. I just hoped that based on our reputation and my being as forthcoming with information as I was, that people would trust me. Heck, I would have happily posted invoices to prove it, I'm not out to "scam" anyone here

[LMR
5. Assuming what you said is truth, it's more of a problem between you and the suppliers, not one between you and customers. Before you go out to talk to your customers, you should confront the suppliers first. (Can't comment further on this because I do not know what kind of contracts you and your suppliers had)

I did... at great lengths. I screamed and yelled until I could yell no more. I mean honestly, do you guys think I would just roll over and say "okay!" and then try and charge people more? Of course not. It was either make people keep waiting with absolutely no idea when they'd come in, or give the option to pay more from suppliers who actually had them in stock.

[LMR
But I can't help wondering what you did with the money customers paid up front over a month ago.

A question which has come up before, and I'll answer it again: Nothing. It sat in our checking account. I wasn't about to go doing anything with it, lest it be unavailable for people should they need to cancel.

[LMR
6. Therefore the main excuse (speeding up things for everybody) became suspicious/upsetting to some. (I sincerely hope you don't make this kind of mistake any more.) They do not care about the deal you had with your suppliers. They do care about the deal between them and you. Of course many here, including myself, are more understanding thanks to your previous forum participation but for other folks, they have a very good reason to get upset.

They do, and I think 90% of the problem was that I did not word the e-mail very well, and people just misunderstood. Many people assumed that I was saying, "Pay me more, or I'll just make you wait forever, and when you finally give up, I'm going to charge you a cancellation fee" which could not be further from the truth. What I meant to say was that I would still fill orders at the same rate, but that for those willing to pay more and let me buy from other suppliers, they could have chips in hand sooner, to no detriment of those unwilling to do so.

[LMR
7. "ETA" (No-ETA, more precisely): This is certainly a valid point you can bring up to defend yourself and indeed is a very strong one. But also there is something called "common sense" attached to "pre-order" and while people might not argue against you for this specific matter but they will remember the way it will have been treated. Like someone exampled above, if things had gone well and you were able to secure the supplies at much lower cost than what you sold them for via pre-order. Will the extra profit be returned to the customers?

There was no way I'd get them for a lower cost then what I had based our prices on. However, in my e-mail, I did specifically say that when I was able to secure processors at the original price, I would *not* charge ANYONE the extra fee, meaning that no, I was in no way trying to take profit from this.

[LMR
I'm sure you regret the whole thing at this point but at the beginning it was a decent opportunity to widen your clientele, for sure. Intel screwed things up and little guys like you get hurt. I couldn't help but sympatetic thinking if I were in your shoes. Since you stood up and suggested a more reasonable solution, let's hope this settles quickly and be forgetten by all of us. People should give more credit for TankGuys for what they have done for us. And they certainly deserve a benifit of doubt on this one, IMHO. For TankGuys, what I've said above is for help, believe it or not. I haven't bought anything from you but I wanted to show that people can be very difficult, especially when it comes to money. (I'm sure you already know this through all the screams and moans in your mailbox)

Let's just blame Intel.

I ABSOLUTELY regret even offering it, but oh well, such is life. I can't make everyone happy, so at some point, some people were going to get mad, not much I can do there. I just hoped this would be better understood, and I think my wording of all of this was a big issue as well.

Oh well, lesson learned.

 

[tylerw13]

Originally posted by: River Side

Originally posted by: TankGuys
1 - If my supplier calls me up and says, "Ben, I've got 300 E6600's for $360, do you want them?" I would say NO.

when u have something for a pre-order you are basically saying I WILL have these and for a given price. Everyone knows what Intel's prices were. They all agreed to pay whatever price you marked them up for and by accepting their order you agreed to supply them the CPU at that price. PERIOD. End of Story.

IF the supplier had come around saying.. Ben I've got E6600's for $320 would u refund people the extra they paid? What if nothing had happened but someone would have just come up and said... Ben i'd like this processor for $15 less now cuz i see some people are getting it for that much.. would u just give them a discount or ask them to honor their pre-order? If they cancelled due to not getting that discount, wouldn't u charge them a cancellation fee?

From the looks of it, if you can't fullfil an order, it's YOU who should be paying a cancellation fee to the buyer.

my thing was this if they would have come out and said that they dont yet know when they are recieving the processors i would have been fine about it. i have no problems with paying the 5% restocking fee...i agreed on that when i bought the chip...i have nothing wrong with paying the 5%....what i did not ever hear about or agree upon is having to pay more to get my chip sooner or to get my chip period....i understand that the price was out of his control...however it was paid in full and i honored my side of the deal and i felt like the other side wasnt being honored, during the whole time waiting i was patient and never complained...then when i got the email last night it pushed me over the edge...im not here spreading bad mojo against tank guys im here releasing my frustration...there have been other times that i have stated on here that i was happy with the updates from tank guys

 

[fbrdphreak]

I was getting ready to speak my piece on the 5% stuff. But then I looked at the Conroe Pre-Order page and Billing Questions page. It is all laid out very straight forward and clear. I don't entirely agree with the 5%, but when you're dealing with internet sales, cut-throat pricing, and the need to reduce overhead as much as possible, I don't blame him.

I've perused your stock and page a while back, but I really like the straight-forward way you place billing & pre-order information. It gives one the satisfaction that there aren't any hidden loopholes.

Good luck with this little fiasco, hopefully the masses will gain a few IQ percentage points and not give you too much grief over this.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
I was getting ready to speak my piece on the 5% stuff. But then I looked at the Conroe Pre-Order page and Billing Questions page. It is all laid out very straight forward and clear. I don't entirely agree with the 5%, but when you're dealing with internet sales, cut-throat pricing, and the need to reduce overhead as much as possible, I don't blame him.

I've perused your stock and page a while back, but I really like the straight-forward way you place billing & pre-order information. It gives one the satisfaction that there aren't any hidden loopholes.

Good luck with this little fiasco, hopefully the masses will gain a few IQ percentage points and not give you too much grief over this.

 

[jg0001]

Originally posted by: shamans
Isn't a pre-order still an order that must be fulfilled at some specified later date?

Why did they promise if they can't deliver? (assuming they actually specified a date for customers when they pre-ordered).

It's still a contract, irregardless of whatever other circumstances that passed (unless extreme).

If it was up to me, I'd offer a free one-time cancellation (due to extreme circumstances). ie. if you can't offer the goods, then don't take the money.

Supplier raising prices does not imply that you're not obligated to fulfill your contract with your customer.

I have to agree here. I do not believe it is legal for them to ask a higher price for a product then they originally allowed for on pre-orders. It is an implicit understanding that you would get the product as soon as it is available, NOT as soon as it is available to that dealer AT a particularly profitable price.

Now, I can understand them saying that they can't sell them at the old price -- but in my mind, the contract is STILL BROKEN and the 5% (NOT $5) cancellation charge should no longer apply.

I "risked" my 5% cancellation charge with them to get a chip when it became available, hoping they'd get it before others and to lock in a good price. I didn't risk that 5% to be stuck waiting in line only to end up paying the same price for a chip I could EASILY now have gotten elsewhere.

 

[jg0001]

Were this BestBuy or even Newegg, and the preorder was on PS3's or XBOX360s (yes I know they don't take preorders on those), there'd be a class action suit if they denied contract fulfillment and upped the price AND wanted a cancellation fee to get out. If you can't supply the goods at the price you offered (and god only knows when you can) then you need to offer a free exit, period. If it costs TankGuys something b/c they already charged our credit cards and it costs something to 'undo' that, that's THEIR RISK for doing so. Their MOTIVATION was an expectation that they could get the chips to sell in the first place -- by offering pre-orders where many would not, they received a good chunk of business that they otherwise would not have gotten.

Forget for a moment that the TankGuys guy comes off as a really good, decent guy. I don't doubt that for a second. Nevertheless, it's not my concern how he gets the chips... I'm paying TankGuys to take that risk. I'm sure many people with prior experience with TankGuys will overlook this issue -- again, however, remove the friendly face and you are still dealing with a business -- no one would be so kind and forgiving of a larger store.

I also don't doubt that he's genuinely not trying to price gouge. The real issue is the cancellation fee (now waived for the next 72 hours). If you can't do what you offer then I shouldn't be stuck shouldering the cost of your miscalculation in costs. What we know now is that we can't get product until you can get it cheaper -- which may be a very long time. That is NOT the contract I signed up for.

I cannot manage both MY risk and every other businesses' risk that I deal with. Given the terms of the situation, I doubt I'd have very much trouble getting AMEX to reverse the charge, had it come to that.

Presently, I've ordered from Newegg. I've also submitted my cancellation order. If by some magic TankGuys now says my CPU is shipping (b/c their costs to cancel would equal the loss on the sale anyway) then we will have a problem. I'm not waiting 3 days to a week for a cancellation confirmation while TankGuys tries to squeeze out a few more sales. Sorry.

 

[Regs]

I have to agree here. I do not believe it is legal for them to ask a higher price for a product then they originally allowed for on pre-orders. It is an implicit understanding that you would get the product as soon as it is available, NOT as soon as it is available to that dealer AT a particularly profitable price.

Very wrong. Prices for pre-orders are only considered "guides" and are not binding. Though the vendor has to show consideration on their part of the agreement to make the buyer aware of the price change before processing the order. The buyer can opt out to cancel the order any time before dispatch.

This is why I do not pre-order. It's strictly for suckers.

 

[Avalon]

Even after all the explanations in this thread, why do some of you continue to post saying that you are being forced to pay a higher price or cancel?

Since the day you pre-ordered, you knew there would be no firm ETA for these chips and that they were going to be in tight supply. This shouldn't be a shock to anyone.

This small availability of higher priced processors have nothing to do with your pre-order, from what I gather. It's just simply an offer that appeared last minute, and those who want to jump ship to it may do so. Else, you'll just continue to wait for your order to become available, like you would have done before.

 

[imported_inspire]

Didn't have time to read all the replies, but I'll offer my opinion as a fellow consumer getting the run-around (from Asus).

This is the cost of doing business. They shouldn't have taken pre-orders if they couldn't fill them at the quoted price and deliver them within a reasonable timeframe. Consumers should not have to suffer for the lack of a company's foresight - especially not after the sale.

Qualifying Edit: If TG can still deliver these within a 'reasonable' timeframe to those who opted not to pay more, I don't think they've really done anything wrong. We all knew about the potential supply difficulties with C2D...

 

[shamans]

Originally posted by: jg0001
Were this BestBuy or even Newegg, and the preorder was on PS3's or XBOX360s (yes I know they don't take preorders on those), there'd be a class action suit if they denied contract fulfillment and upped the price AND wanted a cancellation fee to get out. If you can't supply the goods at the price you offered (and god only knows when you can) then you need to offer a free exit, period. If it costs TankGuys something b/c they already charged our credit cards and it costs something to 'undo' that, that's THEIR RISK for doing so.

Forget for a moment that the TankGuys guy comes off as a really good, decent guy. I don't doubt that for a second. Nevertheless, it's not my concern how he gets the chips... I'm paying TankGuys to take that risk. I'm sure many people with prior experience with TankGuys will overlook this issue -- again, however, remove the friendly face and you are still dealing with a business -- no one would be so kind and forgiving of a larger store.

I also don't doubt that he's genuinely not trying to price gouge. The real issue is the cancellation fee (now waived for the next 72 hours). If you can't do what you offer then I shouldn't be stuck shouldering the cost of your miscalculation in costs. What we know now is that we can't get product until you can get it cheaper -- which may be a very long time. That is NOT the contract I signed up for.

I cannot manage both MY risk and every other businesses' risk that I deal with. Given the terms of the situation, I doubt I'd have very much trouble getting AMEX to reverse the charge, had it come to that.

Presently, I've ordered from Newegg. I've also submitted my cancellation order. If by some magic TankGuys now says my CPU is shipping (b/c their costs to cancel would equal the loss on the sale anyway) then we will have a problem. I'm not waiting 3 days to a week for a cancellation confirmation while TankGuys tries to squeeze out a few more sales. Sorry.

Let me explain the reasoning of why TankGuys messed up in any way we look at it:

Upping the price and offering a separate (more expensive) deal is okay. This is perfectly fine. The problem is if they offered an actual date ETA on the original deal and is unable to deliver by then. If they offered no ETA then all those people who bought in bought in to the 'no ETA' fact - which is very risky and get lots of people mad of course. If there was no ETA, then TankGuys should not have taken the money as there is an implication that the deal will never be fulfilled yet the customer has already fulfilled his part. And of course, there is some misunderstanding that since TankGuys said that the product is indeed available (at a higher cost), that they should fulfill their original deals first. The customer doesn't care how much you're paying for them, they care if you can get the product they paid for. See, although people who pay more $ get their product faster in reality, some people just don't think that way. They think that if they have plunked down the cost before getting the product that they deserve to get their product first because of their sign of good faith. TankGuys should never have taken pre-orders with taking payment before being able to fulfill the deal. Customer = showed good faith then expected goods ASAP. Honestly, no ETA is a very grey area. Don't ever do it and take payment. All the customer ever heard through his perception filter was 'we have the goods but we're not sending it to you'. He doesn't care if you couldn't get it a lower price from your supplier. If he hears you have them (or can get it), he wants his product. I mean, when he paid with his money (in good faith), he never thought 'well, when he can get it at a cheap enough price'. TankGuys deserve the bad rep for offering shady deals and introducing misunderstandings. Keep it simple, don't piss off the customers even though they're demanding/ misunderstanding. You didn't outline the rules clearly enough on what happens on 'no ETA' and then backed the customer into a corner he might not have liked: which was either paying 5% cancellation (someone said this might have been waived now), or paying more for a product that he believes you already have in your hands - irregardless of supplier prices.

Anyway, looks like this has been talked to death. Ultimately, in the long run, it's TankGuys feeling the pain of all this misunderstanding and pissing off some people.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
I was getting ready to speak my piece on the 5% stuff. But then I looked at the Conroe Pre-Order page and Billing Questions page. It is all laid out very straight forward and clear. I don't entirely agree with the 5%, but when you're dealing with internet sales, cut-throat pricing, and the need to reduce overhead as much as possible, I don't blame him.

I've perused your stock and page a while back, but I really like the straight-forward way you place billing & pre-order information. It gives one the satisfaction that there aren't any hidden loopholes.

Good luck with this little fiasco, hopefully the masses will gain a few IQ percentage points and not give you too much grief over this.

I would like to adjust my view a little, after some more thinking. The situation is less than ideal for the customer since they either have to wait longer for prices to drop, which was the point of a pre-order in the first place, in order to get their originally ordered price. This is not the customer's fault, nor should the customer be penalized in this way. Frankly if you're going to go the route of offering the marked up chips or for the customer to wait, you should waive the 5% fee. You are unable to deliver the goods as promised, which is not your fault, but customers should be given the option to cancel fee-free. This is not the usual pre-order situation. This is the cost of doing business, unforseen things happen and to be a good business, you have to pay for them.

Were I one of your customers and you refused to credit the 5%, I would post on ResellerRatings as well as institute a chargeback with my CC company. I understand you're in a tight spot, but while the customer knew about a 5% fee for cancelling (and had the option not to be charged immediately), it is not their fault that you can't deliver the goods as promised.

Good luck

 

[Markbnj]

It's not Tankguys' fault they are getting screwed over by their suppliers.

Yes it is. I haven't done business with these guys, but based on this I would not in the future.

If you are a retailer and you take pre-orders, then as far as I am concerned you are obligated to deliver the product at the price you quoted when the order was placed. If they didn't have firm contracts with suppliers for parts at a given price, then they should not have taken pre-orders based on that pricing, unless there was language in the pre-order that made it clear they reserved the right to adjust the prices to market.

 

[TankGuys]

The big point many people are missing is that we NEVER promised a ship date. Not once. Never, ever. Every single customer ordered the chip at that price, knowing that there was the cancellation fee, and that we did not know when we'd be able to fill the order.

That's the "contract" (as others are calling it) that people signed up for.

The thing is, that has NOT changed. I never once said I wouldn't fill orders at the lower price. I never said we were demanding a higher price, nor did I say that by not paying the higher price, that the ETA for "low" priced orders would be pushed back.

I'm not trying to argue that this isn't frustrating, I know it is. My point, however, is that NOTHING has changed for people who don't wish to pay, except now they may get the chips a bit sooner. That's it, that's the bottom line. I'm not demanding a higher cancellation fee, I'm not making peple cancel, I'm not doing any of that.


All I did was try to find a way to speed up delivery for everyone, by asking people who were willing to pay extra, to do so. Now, I've got lots of happy people, and lots of people who are screaming bloody murder, and now I'm out a few grand in lost cancellation fees.

I would agree with everyone 100% if I had said, "Hey, I am not going to fill your order unless you pay XXX, and if you don't like it, tough, pay the cancellation fee". Never did I say that.

 

[Avalon]

Originally posted by: Markbnj

It's not Tankguys' fault they are getting screwed over by their suppliers.

Yes it is. I haven't done business with these guys, but based on this I would not in the future.

If you are a retailer and you take pre-orders, then as far as I am concerned you are obligated to deliver the product at the price you quoted when the order was placed. If they didn't have firm contracts with suppliers for parts at a given price, then they should not have taken pre-orders based on that pricing, unless there was language in the pre-order that made it clear they reserved the right to adjust the prices to market.

So what place do you shop at that has never made a single mistake?

The 5% cancellation fee seems to be waived, btw (this is addressed to everyone in general).

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: TankGuys
The big point many people are missing is that we NEVER promised a ship date. Not once. Never, ever. Every single customer ordered the chip at that price, knowing that there was the cancellation fee, and that we did not know when we'd be able to fill the order.

That's the "contract" (as others are calling it) that people signed up for.

The thing is, that has NOT changed. I never once said I wouldn't fill orders at the lower price. I never said we were demanding a higher price, nor did I say that by not paying the higher price, that the ETA for "low" priced orders would be pushed back.

I'm not trying to argue that this isn't frustrating, I know it is. My point, however, is that NOTHING has changed for people who don't wish to pay, except now they may get the chips a bit sooner. That's it, that's the bottom line. I'm not demanding a higher cancellation fee, I'm not making peple cancel, I'm doing any of that.

I would agree with everyon 100% if I had said, "Hey, I am not going to fill your order unless you pay XXX, and if you don't like it, tough, pay the cancellation fee". Never did I say that.

I understand your point, but the reality is that people place a pre-order for the express purpose of getting the first units available. These people signed up, paid up front for faster processing (thus agreeing to the 5% fee), and a reasonable expectation for them is to receive the first units you get. This is no longer the case. You are technically correct that you never promised a ship date or even indicated that if you're #30 in line you'll get the 30th processor we receive. But you're skirting around your customer's expectations, which is that they would receive the first chips you get.

You want to save costs and not sell the chips at a lower price, fine and I don't blame you. But you need to offer a zero cost way out for people since the situation changed on them. If you don't, that is just bad business.

Someone just mentioned that the fee "appears to be waived." What you should do is put a notice on your site stating that it is waived and apologize. Good service like that is what keeps old customers and wins new ones, like myself if I happen to be in the market for desktop parts again.

 

[Avalon]

I agree, that if the fee has been waived, it should be placed somewhere noticeable.