Honduran Election Gains Backing - Constitutional Democracy Triumph

PJABBER

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Feb 8, 2001
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A conservative rancher named Porfirio "Pepe" Lobo was elected President of Honduras on Sunday.

With voter turnout at 61%, the results gave Mr. Lobo 56% of the vote, well ahead of Liberal Party candidate Elvin Santos at 38%, confirming voters' expected punishment of the Liberals - party of both the deposed president and the interim government that ousted him.

Throughout the country there was agreement that "we need change." With neither of the two men claiming to be president during the past five months - Mr. Zelaya and interim President Roberto Micheletti - on the ballot it was clear that change was coming.

Partly the fault of an incompetent U.S. Ambassador, Hugo Llorens, and partly the fault of the Obama Administration that has sought to establish ties to leftist, autocratic and theocratic dictatorships at the expense of democratic governments, the U.S. government was on the wrong side of history and on the wrong side of Honduras' effort to maintain a constitutional democracy.

The election result is a repudiation of U.S., Brazilian, Venezuelan and OAS meddling as much as it is a positive referendum for a stalwart democracy in Latin America.

While the U.S. has indicated it will now recognize the new government, it remains to be seen how much support the Obama Administration will throw their way.

For an interactive timeline -

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125962819079570523.html#project=Honduras0906&articleTabs=interactive

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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125962819079570523.html

Printed in The Wall Street Journal, page A8

Honduran Election Gains Backing

By NICHOLAS CASEY and DAVID LUHNOW
Wall Street Journal
December 1, 2009

Honduras's President-elect Porfirio Lobo began lobbying on Monday for international recognition of his victory and an end to the country's diplomatic isolation over the ouster of President Manuel Zelaya.

A day after winning the controversial ballot, Mr. Lobo, a conservative former rancher, said governments holding out on recognition "are punishing those who went to vote, who do so every four years, and have nothing to do with what happened on June 28."

The election was the country's first since the army removed Mr. Zelaya from office at gunpoint in June, a move much of the world condemned as a coup. Many Hondurans say the ouster was done legally to stop an attempt by Mr. Zelaya to stay in power past his term -- charges he denies.

In addition to Mr. Lobo, Honduras's provisional government has emerged as a winner in the crisis. The de facto leaders of this tiny nation stood up to the international community, got Washington to change course, and appear to have ensured Mr. Zelaya won't return to the presidency.

The U.S. praised the election as credible and said Mr. Lobo would be Honduras's next president. Arturo Valenzuela, U.S. assistant secretary of state for Western Hemisphere affairs, also kept the pressure on the provisional government to reconcile with Mr. Zelaya, saying more needs to be done to restore full democracy.

"While the election is a significant step in Honduras's return to the democratic and constitutional order after the 28 June coup, it's just that: It's only a step," Mr. Valenzuela said.

Colombia has recognized the results, as have Panama, Peru and Costa Rica. Spain's Foreign Minister Miguel Ángel Moratinos, who has been at the forefront of efforts to reinstate Mr. Zelaya, said that while Spain didn't recognize the election, it wouldn't disregard the vote, implying it might recognize Mr. Lobo in the coming months.

Despite opposition to the vote from nations including Brazil and Argentina, analysts expect a growing list of countries to back the results as the only logical way out of the impasse. Turnout was 61% -- higher than in the previous election, and evidence that Hondurans had rejected Mr. Zelaya's call for a boycott.

In the months following Mr. Zelaya's ouster, the de facto leaders of Honduras came under enormous pressure from Washington and other capitals to allow him back into the presidency.

The interim leaders held firm, insisting they were defending their democracy from Mr. Zelaya and his biggest ally, Venezuela's Hugo Chávez. Mr. Zelaya had alienated Honduran institutions such as Congress and the courts, as well as much of the middle class, by calling for a referendum to measure voter interest in potentially rewriting Honduras's constitution. Mr. Chávez rewrote Venezuela's constitution to extend his stay in power.

Analysts say the de facto government's defiance wouldn't have been sustainable had the presidential ballot not already been planned for November, just five months after Mr. Zelaya's ouster.

While the U.S. wanted to pressure the government led by interim President Roberto Micheletti into allowing Mr. Zelaya to serve out his term, analysts say Washington decided the vote was the most pragmatic solution.

"Elections were the escape belt," says Eric Farnsworth of the Council of the Americas, a U.S. trade group. "It was the way to put Zelaya and Micheletti into the history books. We didn't support either of those guys."

The biggest loser in the vote may be Mr. Zelaya. In an interview Monday, he continued to chastise both the interim government and the president-elect, Mr. Lobo. Mr. Zelaya said the turnout figures were inflated, and suggested there was voter fraud. He didn't offer evidence of either.

Congress is set to vote Wednesday on Mr. Zelaya's temporary reinstatement. But Sunday's ballot left many lawmakers emboldened to block his return.

"There isn't a chance of him coming back and there never has been," said Maru Landa de Bulnes, a congresswoman from Mr. Zelaya's Liberal Party, who said she will vote against reinstatement.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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While the U.S. has indicated it will now recognize the new government, it remains to be seen how much support the Obama Administration will throw their way.

Support? None of course, the administration was firmly behind the socialist who tried to take over the country.
 

PJABBER

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Feb 8, 2001
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Support? None of course, the administration was firmly behind the socialist who tried to take over the country.

Actually, Zelaya isn't a socialist, which would imply some intent to benefit the populace. He aimed to be a self-serving dictator-for-life of the likes of Hugo Chavez.

Zelaya today called for the cancellation of Sunday's elections. For the sake of "democracy," of course.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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Actually, Zelaya isn't a socialist, which would imply some intent to benefit the populace. He aimed to be a self-serving dictator-for-life of the likes of Hugo Chavez.

Zelaya today called for the cancellation of Sunday's elections. For the sake of "democracy," of course.

Of course, nothing like cancelling democratic elections to further "democracy", every dicator-wannabe knows this ;)

Agreed on Zelaya, he's a Hugo-like marxist presidente-for-life kind a guy.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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Of course, nothing like cancelling democratic elections to further "democracy", every dicator-wannabe knows this ;)

Agreed on Zelaya, he's a Hugo-like marxist presidente-for-life kind a guy.

I wonder why the Obama Administration has been so gung-ho on getting into bed with such a wide variety of bad characters. It is as though they see the world in such an infinite range of shades of gray that they can't actually distinguish any differences at all.
 

teddyv

Senior member
May 7, 2005
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Think of it as an "anti-Monroe Doctrine", a Munich Agreement on steroids. By backing the restoration of Zelaya to power the US positioned itself to be absolved of any criticism that we were behind his (IMO legal and Constitutional) arrest and removal from power. Moreover, the Pols in Foggy Bottom figured that it would be easier to complete base agreements with Columbia were we to be seen as "responsible" to the likes of the OAS and Hugo Chavez. It was a real low point in US foreign policy and a harbinger of things to come so long as the Great Appeaser is in office. Personally my favorite moment was watching Castro standing with the rest of the leftist OAS condemning Honduras' "anti-Democratic" actions - really, you cannot make this stuff up.
 

Schadenfroh

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Mar 8, 2003
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By backing the restoration of Zelaya to power the US positioned itself to be absolved of any criticism that we were behind his (IMO legal and Constitutional) arrest and removal from power.
From what I have read, I agree that his removal was justified and "legal." I must say the administration handled this well. A Chavez wannabe was removed and the US was blameless.

Agreed on Zelaya, he's a Hugo-like marxist presidente-for-life kind a guy.
Agreed

Personally my favorite moment was watching Castro standing with the rest of the leftist OAS condemning Honduras' "anti-Democratic" actions - really, you cannot make this stuff up.

Hahahahahahahaha
**gasps for air***
ahahahahahaha
 
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Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Think of it as an "anti-Monroe Doctrine", a Munich Agreement on steroids. By backing the restoration of Zelaya to power the US positioned itself to be absolved of any criticism that we were behind his (IMO legal and Constitutional) arrest and removal from power. Moreover, the Pols in Foggy Bottom figured that it would be easier to complete base agreements with Columbia were we to be seen as "responsible" to the likes of the OAS and Hugo Chavez. It was a real low point in US foreign policy and a harbinger of things to come so long as the Great Appeaser is in office. Personally my favorite moment was watching Castro standing with the rest of the leftist OAS condemning Honduras' "anti-Democratic" actions - really, you cannot make this stuff up.

Actually it was brilliant diplomacy on Obama's Administrations part. Like Schadenfrosh stated, Zeyela was ousted and America is held blameless.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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Actually it was brilliant diplomacy on Obama's Administrations part. Like Schadenfrosh stated, Zeyela was ousted and America is held blameless.

Balderdash. You only have to read the various statements made by Llorens and other "deep" thinkers to realize this was FUBAR all the way.

The positioning was a minor power positioning play in line with knee-jerk guidance directly from the White House that went beyond the ability of the new Obama Administration to control. This anti-democratic effort by Team Obama has huge ramifications in the resultant loss of confidence in the US by its erstwhile Latin allies.

Honduras is not the only place the Democrats are FUBARing relationships with Central and South American democracies.

Consider also that the Democrat Congress has still failed to ratify the United States-Colombia Trade Promotion Agreement, sometimes called the Colombia Free Trade Agreement or FTA, which was signed by Team Bush on November 22, 2006. Colombia's Congress approved the agreement and a protocol of amendment in 2007 while the Democrats continue to block adoption by the U.S. And this is an agreement that is almost entirely of benefit to the U.S. rather than Colombia.

Revisionist and apologist history, all of the recent attempts to lay blame and fault outside of the current Obama Administration, is not worthy of consideration in the least.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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I'm curious, what "support" did the Obama administration provide Zeyala beyond some empty words?
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I'm curious, what "support" did the Obama administration provide Zeyala beyond some empty words?

True, the US didn't do much to help him beyond rhetoric. None of these things happen in a vacuum, and we don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but the fact that the white house publicly supported a leftist dictator instead of democracy is pretty disappointing.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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True, the US didn't do much to help him beyond rhetoric. None of these things happen in a vacuum, and we don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but the fact that the white house publicly supported a leftist dictator instead of democracy is pretty disappointing.

Eh? Democracy != rule of law. It wasn't democracy that brought Zeyala down. Quite the opposite, that's what he was counting on to stay in power. It was the rule of Honduran law that brought Zeyala down.

As though any of us really give a rats ass about Zeyala anyway...

But seriously, you'd have to live in a very weird world to think that constitutional term limits are democracy.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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True, the US didn't do much to help him beyond rhetoric. None of these things happen in a vacuum, and we don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but the fact that the white house publicly supported a leftist dictator instead of democracy is pretty disappointing.
He might of been a Leftist but he was a democratically elected Leftist not a Dictator who gained power by force. It seems Obama's Administration was correct in predicting that even if he was able to retain his position he and his party would be voted out of power which they were.

It was brilliant diplomacy on his and his Administrations part, something we didn't see in the previous Administration
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Eh? Democracy != rule of law. It wasn't democracy that brought Zeyala down. Quite the opposite, that's what he was counting on to stay in power. It was the rule of Honduran law that brought Zeyala down.

As though any of us really give a rats ass about Zeyala anyway...

But seriously, you'd have to live in a very weird world to think that constitutional term limits are democracy.

Part of what allows a democracy to stay a democracy is making sure those in power can't change the rules of the game to permanently stay in power. It happens all too often in developing countries that don't have the kind of safeguards that the US and EU countries have. Zelaya was monkeying with the process to try and stay in power, and he was ousted because of it. He was ousted to preserve democracy.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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He might of been a Leftist but he was a democratically elected Leftist not a Dictator who gained power by force. It seems Obama's Administration was correct in predicting that even if he was able to retain his position he and his party would be voted out of power which they were.

It was brilliant diplomacy on his and his Administrations part, something we didn't see in the previous Administration

You call backing the wrong guy, the leftist who got booted out of power, and thereby alienating the people and government of one of the US's allies "brilliant diplomacy"? Sounds more like a play straight out of GWB's handbook. I'm willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt because I don't know what was/is happening behind the scenes, but it sure looks bad when you support a would-be leftist dictator instead of those who want democracy.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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You call backing the wrong guy, the leftist who got booted out of power, and thereby alienating the people and government of one of the US's allies "brilliant diplomacy"? Sounds more like a play straight out of GWB's handbook. I'm willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt because I don't know what was/is happening behind the scenes, but it sure looks bad when you support a would-be leftist dictator instead of those who want democracy.

He supported the guy that was democratically elected. He might have been an asshole, he might have been a leftist but he was chosen by the majority of the people. A play out of GWB's handbook would be to make something up, lie to the American Public and then invade Honduras
 

whylaff

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Oct 31, 2007
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I think the United States apprehension in this area is missed—military removal of an executive in a time of democratic transition does not usually result in a pleasant outcome.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
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Hooray! The oligarchs are back in charge! The military has performed it's sole function, protecting the rich elite from the peasants so the soldiers can go back to their barracks now and the officers back to their clubs. Honduras can continue its historic role as America's prison bitch. Maybe the price on bananas will drop again; they had been on the rise. All is well, all is well.
 

LittleNemoNES

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
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Hooray! The oligarchs are back in charge! The military has performed it's sole function, protecting the rich elite from the peasants so the soldiers can go back to their barracks now and the officers back to their clubs. Honduras can continue its historic role as America's prison bitch. Maybe the price on bananas will drop again; they had been on the rise. All is well, all is well.

The guy wanted to be a dictator -- not a liberal head of state.
 

teddyv

Senior member
May 7, 2005
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Brilliant Diplomacy? If you'd closely watched this unfold you would see that the only thing really astounding about all of this was the level at which the wonks in Foggy Bottom truly underestimated the resolve of the Hondurans. In this whole mess the Hondurans are the big winners, it is the US, Castro and Chavez (and to some extent Bolivia's Evo Morales) that lost - lost respect, lost credibility and lost influence.

As for the CFTA, though the prior Administration pushed it relentlessly, the simple fact is that the (Dem) Senate simply shelved it. Thank the SEIU and other large Unions who, as some of the largest contributors of money in politics, have collectively have viewed free trade agreements as a threat to American (Union) Jobs and have worked earnestly to fight them in any form.
 

teddyv

Senior member
May 7, 2005
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Coup?

His removal was in response to a warning by his own Attorney General that his actions were in violation of the Honduran Constitution, and when Zelaya proceeded anyway (with ballots printed in and flown in from Venezuela on Venezuelan military planes) he was arrested under order of that AG, convicted by a Constitutional majority of the Honduran legislature (with even a majority of members of his own party!) and his arrest and conviction, and subsequent expulsion, affirmed by the Honduran Supreme Court.

To call it a coup is either dishonest or ignorant.
 

RyanPaulShaffer

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2005
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Coup?

His removal was in response to a warning by his own Attorney General that his actions were in violation of the Honduran Constitution, and when Zelaya proceeded anyway (with ballots printed in and flown in from Venezuela on Venezuelan military planes) he was arrested under order of that AG, convicted by a Constitutional majority of the Honduran legislature (with even a majority of members of his own party!) and his arrest and conviction, and subsequent expulsion, affirmed by the Honduran Supreme Court.

To call it a coup is either dishonest or ignorant.

You must be new here in P&N. Facts have no place here. All of this was pointed out months ago when this event occurred, but the leftists will twist and spin everything to fit their agenda. To the left, the Honduran government following their constitution and removing a power-hungry fascist from power is a "military coup" because anything that opposes the left is automatically "in the wrong". Didn't you get the memo? :p

You're fighting a losing battle here by using facts in your arguments. Prepare to be insulted and called all sorts of derogatory names. :)
 

whylaff

Senior member
Oct 31, 2007
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You cannot ignore the power of the military in Honduras throughout history. Even in 1980, the military was still able to veto cabinet appointments—Gen. Gustavo Alvarez still yielded considerable power even after a return to civilian rule. The constitution also limits government control of the military. With this past in mind, it is easy to understand why some would immediately question the military’s action. Military regimes are not too keen on giving up power.

I always wonder why so many issues for people have to be black and white. Questioning why one does something does not automatically mean you agree with other’s point of view or actions.