Honda Dealer Service - Tire Balancing for No Apparent Reason?

[Wuzup101]

This is a weird one (to me), so I wanted to get the opinion of the AT Garage. My GF has a 2014 CRV with about 30k on the odometer. At the beginning of the year or so, she had a new set of continental tires put on it. Shortly after that, the pandemic hit, and we were both WFH about 2/3 of the time. She also has a fairly short commute to work (like 10 miles RT, 4 days per week). Bottom line, these new tires probably have less than 1000 miles on them.

She goes into our local Honda dealer, where she has had oil changes / service done before for an oil change (A1 service per honda manual). Oil change parts and labor come out to about $50, which is normal for the area, and honestly that's why we don't do it ourselves. A1 service, per the honda website / manual for the CRV also includes a tire rotation and inspection (the "1" component). This is typical (IMHO), as it's generally a good idea to rotate tires every oil change. The service manager also advises her that she should have a 4 wheel alignment performed because their machine detected that she was out of alignment when she entered the garage. The alignment is going to be $90. She calls me, I tell her that she hasn't had an alignment in quite a while, and it's probably a good idea given that she drives heavily in the city and just had new tires installed. I'm used to getting alignments every few years anyway. She comes home with a bill that was $200. The dealer, without explaining to her, charged her $50 for a tire rotation and balance.

My question is this: is it typical for a dealer / service center to perform a tire balance check for no apparent reason. The tires were recently installed by a large tire chain that offers free re-balancing for the life if the tire, if needed. So obviously she would have no reason to get this done at the dealer. They charge $15 for a normal tire rotation. The tires are obviously (visually) brand new. Their automated machine that measured the tread depth (which they provided us) showed that the wear pattern was even with all treads measuring either 10/32 or 9/32 (brand new the tires have 10/32 tread.

They also tried to sell her a cabin filter change ($70), engine air filter change ($65), brake cleanup and inspection ($70), and break fluid flush ($170). I told her to decline those services, and went on Amazon and purchased the filters and honda brake fluid for like $60. I told her that next time she needed an oil change, we would just do everything ourselves, and I'll change all her fluids when I have the car up on jack stands.

I did call the service department and got them to reluctantly credit her back the $50 for the rotation and balance. I explained to them that the tires she had on the car were brand new and there was no reason to re-balance them. There was no customer complaint regarding wobble / noise. They insisted that it was part of the "A1" service (which quite frankly, it isn't based on the honda manuals). I also questioned the service manager as to why he would re-balance based on a service light indicator because the car obviously doesn't have any information about the tire wear (or when new tires were installed). Doing a standard rotation with an oil change, I completely understand. He claimed they found 1 of 4 tires out of balance by 1/32 of a gram (I assume he meant 1/32 ounce... 1/32 of a gram seems a bit too small of a unit).

 

[Leymenaide]

I have driven well over a million miles and never re-balanced a tire. I have noticed dealers getting more and more outrageous with charges. I was recently charged 140.00 for a 2010 VW Passat headlight bulb. This is a 2 minute job and a $10 bulb. The service writer gets a commission on everything he manages to up charge you. With more and more dealerships becoming regional monopolies it is only getting worse. Thank the neo liberals and their monopolist end game capitalism. Remember we are just the 'despicable s' to them even at election time.

 

[NutBucket]

I don't understand why they would have performed a service without asking for or receiving approval. I would have simply refused to pay for unauthorized work.

And I'd like to learn more about this bit "their machine detected that she was out of alignment when she entered the garage". That's news to me...and quite the machine if it can do this while the car is moving.

 

[herm0016]

There "machine" detected it was out of alignment when she drove in? HA. i have never heard of that one before. total BS. alignments every few years is probably not a bad thing to do, but not necessary. i try to do it when i get new tires just to make sure i give the new tires a proper start.

if i feel a vibration, cheapest and easiest thing to start with is tire balance. I have had mine done a couple times in the past 6 months, discount tire did them and did not fix, my dealer did it and did a better job, very smooth now. i may have lost a stick on wheel weight.

if your tires are directional they will have to be removed from the rims and reinstalled for a proper x rotation and that requires balancing on the new wheel.

 

[Wuzup101]

So to clarify, I do believe she was out of alignment, and machines that scan cars for alignment issues as they drive in the shop are actually a thing. Hunter Engineering makes one called the Quick Check. It's definitely a way to up-sell alignments that some (many) don't need... but it is a legit piece of equipment. I have the print out from the machine... so that wasn't just a scam (needed? questionable... but a good idea with new tires and she probably hasn't had one in quite a few years).

@NutBucket - in regards to your post, that's the crazy thing, they didn't print a new authorization sheet for her to sign. The authorization sheet that she signed had just the oil change and complimentary inspection on it. On that sheet, in ink, there was a RB added, circled, and a $49 put next to it, along with an AL $89. She was also dealing with the service manager via text, and clearly stated that she only wanted an oil change and the alignment. She said she had only signed the authorization sheet when she got there and never re-signed it after anything was added.

 

[NutBucket]

The one good thing about text...written record! Glad you fought it.

 

[RLGL]

The only time I have alignments done is when the tires show an uneven wear pattern.

 

[herm0016]

Quick Check | Hunter Engineering Company®

Check every vehicle, seize every alignment and tire opportunity. Hunter's unmanned inspection system provides instant results automatically. Learn more.

www.hunter.com

this does not seem scammy at all...... nothing about how accurate it is, just about how many more alignments you sell.

 

[manly]

YMMV but stealerships will gouge you whenever they can, esp. women who typically know very little about cars.

Depending on how you value your time, it's unlikely that a DIY oil change is worth the effort. Hondas of the past decade often use 0W-20, which is usually full synthetic although I believe the dealer service dept. does use a blended "bulk" oil. But at least you'll know you aren't getting scammed.

 

[NutBucket]

Quick Check | Hunter Engineering Company®

Check every vehicle, seize every alignment and tire opportunity. Hunter's unmanned inspection system provides instant results automatically. Learn more.

www.hunter.com

this does not seem scammy at all...... nothing about how accurate it is, just about how many more alignments you sell.

I mean Hunter does make the best equipment as far as balancers, alignment racks, etc. It would be interesting to see how accurate this thing is. I would guess it can detect gross mis-alignments just fine. But the define range of allowable toe values, etc. is too large for my liking. I like seeing the final numbers read 0.0!

 

[NutBucket]

YMMV but stealerships will gouge you whenever they can, esp. women who typically know very little about cars.

Depending on how you value your time, it's unlikely that a DIY oil change is worth the effort. Hondas of the past decade often use 0W-20, which is usually full synthetic although I believe the dealer service dept. does use a blended "bulk" oil. But at least you'll know you aren't getting scammed.

Effort perhaps. But I can do the oil change faster than the time it takes to go to dealership and wait. Plus I get to check out the underside of the car to look for problems forming.

 

[herm0016]

I mean Hunter does make the best equipment as far as balancers, alignment racks, etc. It would be interesting to see how accurate this thing is. I would guess it can detect gross mis-alignments just fine. But the define range of allowable toe values, etc. is too large for my liking. I like seeing the final numbers read 0.0!

i feel like the accuracy of alignments and balancing has gone down over time. we used to balance the tires for our drag cars running under 10 seconds on an old piece of crap at a shop that worked only on large trucks / had a hoist over it to pick up 24 inch wide wheel and tire. it was about how we did the work, not about the machine. anyway... the person running the machines and doing the adjustments still matters. does hunter make the best stuff? or the easiest to train someone to use stuff?

 

[NutBucket]

Dunno. I've been going to the same shop for over a decade because I know it will be done right. Always to my specs. But yes, your point is quite valid. The machine is only as good as the operator.

 

[mindless1]

Face it, if you take your car into a place like that, you are essentially asking them to do work to try to find problems (implied because their mission is to upsell) then even if they don't find problems, they spent time doing it so they will find a way to bill you for time spent, making mountains out of molehills or fabricating reasons if they can't even do that.

"Place like that" means there are better shops that don't do this. Treat them like gold because they are. They're a minority and making less profit by not screwing people, they need your support to stay in business.

 

[pcgeek11]

That was good! The machine detected your alignment was off when you drove in.

And my BS Meter detected that you were full of sh!t as soon as you told me that.

 

[ondma]

It is possible to lose a wheel weight, but I am sure the driver would have noticed a severe vibration.
Up selling unfortunately is SOP for new car dealerships. I have an almost 2 year old Suburu, and I have to say that, so far, the dealership has been very good about not suggesting a lot of unnecessary services. One of my earlier cars was a Civic, and I have to say the Honda dealership was very insistent on suggesting extra services.

Edit: Since I have awd, I am surprised they have not suggested an alignment already. I had about 20k at the last service and they have not suggested one.

 

[kt]

YMMV but stealerships will gouge you whenever they can, esp. women who typically know very little about cars.

Depending on how you value your time, it's unlikely that a DIY oil change is worth the effort. Hondas of the past decade often use 0W-20, which is usually full synthetic although I believe the dealer service dept. does use a blended "bulk" oil. But at least you'll know you aren't getting scammed.

For some, it's not about the cost saving.

 

[mindless1]

Depending on how you value your time, it's unlikely that a DIY oil change is worth the effort.

You post could be interpreted both ways. It takes me less time and effort to do an oil change, than schedule and set aside that slot, drive to service shop, wait, drive back, inspect work done... and that's if they did it right instead of breaking the air filter latches trying to upsell that, or didn't put the dipstick back in good so there's a vac leak error code, or cross-threaded the oil pan bolt, etc.

Plus some of my vehicles have lube locations and if they manage to tell the oil change guy to lube it at all (because he may not check), he's likely to over-lube then excess grease is going *somewhere*.

Granted I'm discounting factors like picking up new oil and disposal of old but this is done at locations I am either at already (or Amazon) or drive by daily, so negligible time and effort there too.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I've been told that getting an alignment is entirely pointless UNLESS you replace the tires immediately before, or recently before the alignment.

If I recall from what I was told, it was basically - if you're misaligned it is wearing down the tires in certain places - And any alignment will simply quickly fail over to the already defect tires that are worn down in certain areas.... and the place that told me this wasn't a tire-sales place.

Of course, I don't know jack shit on this kind of car stuff so I'm curious if there is any validity to it....

 

[mindless1]

^ No they were incorrect, if you are out of alignment you will get more of the remaining life out of your tires by having one done, and may result in better handling too.

If you don't notice uneven tire wear until they are about shot, then it may make as much sense to just buy new tires but you still need the alignment done.

The thing is, a vehicle can slowly drift out of alignment or it can come from sudden failure or collision damage, and either way you may need to repair the thing causing the alignment problem before the alignment is done.

Otherwise, they don't just go out of alignment on a schedule (as fast as) tires wear, but since new tires are a somewhat significant investment, that is a good time to have alignment checked, but as above, before you get the new tires is an even better time to have the rest of your suspension checked.

In theory you should be checking your suspension (occasionally) anyway, but few do this until they notice a problem.

 

[NutBucket]

People just need to pay attention to their cars. Odd noise? Check it out. Give the tires a quick glance to see that they're wearing evenly. Stuff like that. Your alignment can be off enough to eat tires but not be noticeable while driving. Ask me how I know LOL.

Sent from my SM-F700U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Scarpozzi]

We bought a new 2016 Odyssey in July of that year. 10 months later, we were about to go on a trip and my wife took it to the dealership to get the oil changed. While she was there, they rotated the tires and checked the alignment.....well.....it's never been right since. The vehicle had maybe 8k miles on it...the tires weren't even broken in.

Lucky for me, I don't drive that van unless we're on trips. #1...I change my own oil. #2...I never trust dealership idiots with my vehicles

I have a few shops that I would trust with alignment, but not a dealership or chain. I had her take it back and they messed with it again, but it still seems that one of the tires has a flat spot or some irregular wear issue. Basically, they screwed up the tires along with whatever else they did. I wasn't there, so I don't know what they actually told her. I just know the alignment from the factory is usually locked in pretty perfect...unless you get in an accident or notice an issue with tire tread or steering, you don't touch it.

 

[Viper GTS]

I'm dumbfounded that so many of you have not encountered the Hunter quick check system. To be clear it's not like it just detects visually, they put targets on the wheels and it gets scanned as it's driven a few feet IIRC (one full rotation I believe).

I absolutely hate any hint of alignment or balance issue so yes, my cars get aligned regularly. I also pay the extra for full road force balance on all my cars. Yes, re-balancing is a thing. Not because of tire wear but because the weights are just adhesive these days and they can fall off.

You can make the argument that these services or this level of vehicle care isn't worth it to you/for the cars you drive, but there simply is no validity to an argument for never needing to check alignment or balance after initial setup.

Viper GTS

 

[NutBucket]

I don't use big shops for service. I can't imagine the finances make sense for a small shop to have a quick check system.

 

[zinfamous]

I have driven well over a million miles and never re-balanced a tire. I have noticed dealers getting more and more outrageous with charges. I was recently charged 140.00 for a 2010 VW Passat headlight bulb. This is a 2 minute job and a $10 bulb. The service writer gets a commission on everything he manages to up charge you. With more and more dealerships becoming regional monopolies it is only getting worse. Thank the neo liberals and their monopolist end game capitalism. Remember we are just the 'despicable s' to them even at election time.

wat