Honda Civic Hybrid (2003) -- Longevity

[Nebbers]

Anyone have some knowledge of what to expect of a 2003 Civic Hybrid around the 165,000 mile mark? Do these engines last as long as the 90's VTECs generally do?

Also, any issues with transmission or the electric components I should know about?

I need to get a car fairly soon, was looking for an Accord around '98 to '01 and really hadn't expected a hybrid to even be an option, but the price is right on this one. Listed at lower than the blue book value. Unfortunately I know little to nothing about these. I've read that they don't get as much fuel efficiency as they claim to, but that's not a big issue as it's still going to be much better than most of my options.

Basically, I need a car that will be unlikely to have any major issues until the 200k mark. I don't plan on reselling it, and I don't need a powerhouse of a car, just something that's likely to get me through several years.

 

[Doppel]

From what I understand the Civic Hybrids are far less robust than the Prius. The batteries are more inclined to die early. At least some of them (not sure of year) were getting fairly bad mileage and/or batteries dying, so Honda would flash the computer and some owners reported even worse mileage.

IMO the only hybrid Honda has ever created worth a damn is the original Insight. Maybe the current gen Civic Hybrid. The rest I'd skip unless a great price on them.

What are they asking for this? If you want a hybrid go with a Prius of that lineage. It will stand up better and there are more of them out there (parts).

Hondas are ok but probably overpriced, used, in virtually all cases. I'd be open to other considerations.

If your credit is good you can go into a dealership today with $1500 to cover your taxes and all that crap and <$200/month for a new econobox lease. That requires cash flow, but guarantees zero problems with the car as well (no surprises like a new tranny). Depends on your situation, though.

 

[Nebbers]

They have it listed at $4300, and it looks like it's been for sale over a month so I may be able to get it lower yet.

I dunno, I'm reading more and more about transmission issues way too early on.

Really think Hondas are overpriced used? I actually had a 99 Accord that was awesome, no problems at all for the entire time I owned it until it was totaled in a crash :|

There's a 2003 Toyota Corolla LE that someone just told me about for $4500, 165k miles. I don't know much about newish Toyotas either... I do know that I had an '88 Camry with like 200k miles on it way back when that never had a problem

Basically I'm terrified of anything Chrysler/Dodge, but otherwise have little experience with much of anything. My range extends up to about $4500 tops right now, would like to stay under $4000 if I can... and I'm looking for the most reliable, longest-running option I can get. While I enjoy a car with some balls to it, it's not my priority right now.

 

[Doppel]

That's an ok price, but yeah I do think used Hondas cost too much.

That Corolla sounds ok, but only because the market on used cars is bullsh*t right now. I just looked around on Autorader/craigslist, you have some sympathy. People are charging $4500 for a 10 year old Sentra with well over 100k on it, for example.

I'd think about a Ford Focus, that price range will get you in a 2005 with way lower miles and repairs on these will also be low. I wouldn't touch Dodge, either!

 

[ElFenix]

a friend of mine has the first model year civic hybrid (i think its a 2002?), and he's shipped his battery off for refurbishing a couple times. only replacing the bad cells is cheaper than getting the whole thing redone but not as reliable. the car works even when the battery is dead so it's not an immediate replacement need. iirc, it even worked with the battery gone, though i'm not sure about that. considering it's got 150,000 plus miles on it, it's still in great shape. not much in the way of rattles or creaks.

any car that old could probably use serious overhaul of wear and rubber parts. brakes, belts, hoses, gaskets, spark, fluid replacement, maybe fuel pump if it's original, etc.

 

[Eli]

Wow, $4300 is a GREAT price for a 1st gen HCH. Is it a manual or CVT? You want a manual if you're looking at the HCH. The first gen HCH manual transmission cars have lean burn capability just like my Insights, and can happily get up to 65MPG with some conservative driving. Very impressive for a 5 seater.

I wouldn't worry about the engine. They should last like most other Honda engines.

It's the battery that can be the problem. There are options. Like ElFenix says, you can have the battery refurbished by Ron at Hybrid Battery Repair. There's also an outfit in Phoenix that does it, but HBR was the first and is the most technically advanced.

I'm not sure about the transmissions, but I would avoid a CVT just out of principle. It's just better to row your own in a hybrid, especially if it's lean burn capable.

Last but not least, you can get a brand new, higher capacity battery pack that is much more robust than the origial Panasonic/Sanyo cells that Honda used. I've been beta testing a pack for the last 4 months, and it is WONDERFUL. This is how the batteries should have been. Of course, no longevity information yet, but just because the cells are more robust and better handle the way the car treats them, we hope they last much longer than the stock packs.

You would likely want to invest in a grid charger to keep the battery healthy. Honda's BMS is defective in that it allows individual cells to become out of balance. The car must be driven regularly. Our current recommendation is to grid charge the battery if the car sits for more than a few days.

 

[Ferzerp]

Not a great price for 165k miles according to kbb.

 

[Eli]

Not a great price for 165k miles according to kbb.

KBB can kiss my ass.

Granted I don't follow HCH as much as the Insight, but KBB seems to be clueless as to real market value. Really frustrating actually.. there are a couple of people dealing with insurance woes because their car was totalled and they're not offering them what it's going to cost to replace it.

165k miles is "a lot", but I would expect such a car to sell for ~6k as long as it's in good condition, especially if it's a manual.

1st gen manual HCH are rare and people are willing to pay good money for them. I have a friend with a 2003 5 speed and he's looking to get 9k for it. He bought it for 8500 back in 2008. Dealerships list similar cars for ~10k!

Only has 80k miles though, so that's definitely a factor.

 

[Nebbers]

It's automatic

 

[Eli]

That's too bad.

Why are you looking at the HCH in the first place, the potential fuel savings I imagine?

 

[Nebbers]

Well that'd be a plus, but not really. Hondas have just treated me well and there's pretty limited selection around here. Most of the rest are either way above or way below what I'm looking for.

 

[Eli]

Hmm. Ever considered an Insight? LOL.. just kidding.

I think Honda's CVTs are fairly reliable, but they do have problems.. as do all transmissions.

What's wrong with the cars that are below what you're looking for?

 

[Nebbers]

Well, it's just that most of them are around '90 with a good bit of mileage on them. I'd like something that's more likely to last me longer than I'd expect of those with 200k+ already.

The other side of the coin is 2005 or newer which is just out of my price range. Shooting for $4000 or under if I can, but can go a little higher probably. The car I'm replacing was a '99 Accord and it was awesome... before it was crushed.

 

[Eli]

Ahh I see yea.

HmMmMmMmM. It really could go either way with the HCH... IMO the automatic transmission is a real bummer, but it should still get better mileage than any other car in it's class.

You'd probably be F'd if the battery went out to be honest... It's difficult to tell if the battery is good in the IMA system unless you're familiar with it....

Yea, I dunno. Keep searching, shouldn't be hard to find something decent for 4k. The thing is that the HCH could be totally decent, and then it would be a great deal. How many owners? Can you get the VIN to call Honda and see if/when the battery was replaced under warranty?

Does it need tires? Brakes? Can you test drive it for a couple of hours at some point? LOL

 

[Nebbers]

I sent the owner a message asking for some details on things like that, but haven't heard back yet. We'll see, I suppose.

As far as the transmission... I've actually never driven a manual, period. Part of me really wants to give it a shot, I can't imagine I wouldn't be able to handle it with a bit of practice... and I think it would most likely make me a better driver if anything, because every time I've ever fucked up while driving has been because I was daydreaming about something else because driving an automatic is basically autopilot mode.

 

[thomsbrain]

Eli, how much does battery refurbishing cost?

 

[desy]

http://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/Civic_Hybrid/2003/
By far gthe most problems with a civic hybrid is the transmission

 

[mmntech]

Why not just get a vanilla Civic?

 

[jmarti445]

I'd get a 2006 or later civic, the 2001-2005 civic's weren't particularly reliable in general. Plus you get more power in the the newer civics and better fuel economy. I average about 30 in the city and have gotten up to 43 MPG with about a 35-38 MPG average for highway mileage.