Home Theater Woes

[Atherakhia]

Let me start by saying I'm a total noob when it comes to this stuff. I'm trying to do some research now to get a general idea which direction to go when I move this April.

Here's a picture of the room:

link: http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6247/52183707.jpg

I was leaning more toward a sound bar, but the more I read the less I'm starting to want one. I've read they don't do a good job simulating surround sound, and that for the price I could get a moderately good system with expandability.

What I want to do with my home theater system is:
1.) Watch streaming video from hulu.
2.) Watch downloaded video without concern of format (anime in mkv)
3.) Watch bluray DVDs.
4.) Play music (I don't have an iPod/Phone, so a hook-up for these isn't needed).
5.) Do some gaming primarily on an XBox360 or PS3.

What would you suggest for me? Right now I'm looking at about $2500, but this needs to get me a ~50" tv (prefer LCD simply because of gaming and all the windows in the room will nullify the value of plasma), the speakers, and whatever system I use to play the above.

I'm also curious if the only realistic way to get around the file format problem is if I use a media PC? I'm not opposed to the idea, especially since a new PC is in my future and I could re-use my current system to build into it. It's a Intel C2Duo 6600 with only 4gig ram.

 

[Exterous]

Have you demoed any speakers? Do you have a preference for floor standing vs bookshelf vs in wall? I would stay away from most Home Theater in a Box solutions.
I think you could figure on about $300 for a decent Onkyo or Denon reciever with HDMI/TrueHD/DTS-HD capabilities

If you go with a PS3 that nullifies the need for a bluray player. If not then I would recommend a Panasonic DMP-BD60 for ~$110. I am not too sure about PC bluray players - there are concerns about bitstreaming audio (requires additional card like a ATI 5000 series card), software needs (And updates. SOme software only supports 2 channel playback), and firmware availability

You can do decent video playback with that rig. I have an E6400 and 3 GB ram and it runs fine. I would recommend a dedicated video card for it to offload the encoding - but a ~$50 video card with HDMI outs should work. Does your motherboard have a digital out? If not you would want a GPU that does audio as well. Most ATI cards do but only the 5000 series will do uncompressed audio (Not needed for standard DVD playback)

I don't know that much about LCD TVs or cost but I know they can be expensive. What is more important: Picture or Audio? Also, does it need to be a Audio system all at once or would you be willing to by 2.1 setup now and add surrounds later? Polks tend to be a fan favorite around here but depending on the audio side of the budget you could probably get a better 2.1 system from PSB, Klipsch, Rockets....well there are lots of options then and add surrounds later

 

[Atherakhia]

I haven't demo'd anything really. I was hoping to find some soundbars on display, but I haven't found anything local. Certainly not the 5.1 setups. Most I've seen is the 2.0 with external subs and such.

If I don't go with a 5.1 soundbar, I would prefer floor standing speakers I think.

Now as for building a system, I would have to get a new video card for certain. But what about a sound card?

 

[Exterous]

In my experience soundbars, while better than TV speakers (Unless you go with the Mitsubishi Unisen series or the like) do not compare well against a good 5.1, 3.1 or 2.1 system in terms of sound quality.

For the sound card it depends on what your computer already has. Does your motherboard already have a digital out? If so that will be enough for your audio needs. If not there are a lot of GPUs out there that include the ability to output sound from them via HMDI (The ATI 4000 and 5000 series come to mind).

As there are a lot of options out there for floorstanding speakers I would see if there are any home theatre stores around where you can listen to them. There is a lot of variance in the sound produced by speakers. Some people love Klipsch speakers - others do not. Its better to find out which camp you are in before you buy them ^_^

 

[vshah]

a 50" 1080p set will be somewhere from $1200-1500, leaving you with ~1000 for your video game system and audio system

take $300 for game system/accessories

so $700-$1000 for your sound system, depending on how much your TV is

are you likely to be able to buy now and spend more on upgrading later? you'll end up with a much better system over time this way. If you want to go this route, I'd recommend a 3.1 system to start with.

If you're dead set on having a full surround system to start with, you'll sacrifice quite a bit of quality to fit in your price range.

 

[sdifox]

where is the furninture?

 

[kalrith]

How are you going to arrange furniture, and what will your viewing distance be? Also, how much of your viewing will be during the day, and will your have curtains/shades on the windows? I know that 80% of my viewing is at night, and my plasma doesn't suffer that much in the daylight. It's not like LCDs will look as good during the day as at night either, so decide if you want to sacrifice better PQ and possibly price of a plasma for better light-handling abilities of an LCD. Also, make sure to get an LCD with a matte screen instead of a glossy screen. I'd think that a plasma would handle light better than a glossy LCD.

Also, I'm not sure why people think that gaming is better on an LCD than on a plasma. On an LCD you have the possibility of ghosting and the definite presence of input lag. On a plasma you have neither; i.e. it's better for gaming.

I would recommend going with at least a 3.1 setup, but even better would be some surrounds either on stands or ceiling-mounted (not in-ceiling) and pointed down a little.

$2,500 is a bit tight for everything but doable. It sounds like you at least need a PS3 ($300), dedicated video card ($50), receiver ($250), 50+" 1080P TV ($1,400), 5 speakers ($800), subwoofer ($200), or something like that.

 

[vshah]

before kalrith recommends it, i'm going to suggest his favorite receiver
denon 2308 from dakmart. audyssey room correction, and plenty of power.

http://www.dakmart.com/product_info.php?cPath=4_9_15&products_id=6511

$1000 for 5 speakers and sub is not too far from a svs 5.1 system for ~$1200 shipped.
you'll need a pretty solid sub for that size room, especially since it is open to the kitchen/stairs

https://svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm


If you go for a 5.1 system, you need to figure out if you care more about the audio quality or the tv quality. you can get a 50" 1080p plasma for under $1000, which would free up the budget for the svs system i linked above. or, you could get a cheaper 5.1 system and a higher quality TV.


if you go for a 3.1 system, you could probably squeeze in a nice TV and solid speakers, within your budget

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

$1000 for 5 speakers and sub is not too far from a svs 5.1 system for ~$1200 shipped.
you'll need a pretty solid sub for that size room, especially since it is open to the kitchen/stairs

https://svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm

Another $1200 shipped 5.1 set is the ELT / MFW-15 set at AV123

http://www.av123.com//index.php?pag...facturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37

 

[vshah]

Another $1200 shipped 5.1 set is the ELT / MFW-15 set at AV123

http://www.av123.com//index.php?pag...facturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37

that mfw-15 would do nicely in your space, OP, plus if WAF is an issue the ELT set should not disappoint

so:
elt/mfw-15 combo - $1200 shipped
denon 2308 - $350 shipped from dakmart


leaves only $950 for tv + game system + wires/stands/mounts - not really enough if OP is set on a 50" screen

 

[Fallen Kell]

I was leaning more toward a sound bar, but the more I read the less I'm starting to want one. I've read they don't do a good job simulating surround sound, and that for the price I could get a moderately good system with expandability.

Depends on the surround sound bar. I have had many demos and listening sessions with the Polk Audio surround bars (four different models), including prototype demos before they went on the market (even one with Mathew Polk). I have also listened to some of the others on the market like Yamaha and Sony.

To be honest, the Polk's just have a better technology. The SDA technology that they have been using for 25-30 years now, is just that good. The limitation is that you need to sit within the length of their surround bars to get the full effect, but even outside of it is still good. It is all pure simple math and physics for how it works. Using a pair of drivers on each side (for instance, left and right), that are spaced apart the average distance between the human ears, with one driver playing the left channel signal, and the other playing the other (right in this case) signal 180 degrees out of phase -6db was just pure genius. What happens is that it cancels out the noise from the other speaker when it would hit the human ear, so that the left ear only hears the left speaker and the right ear only hears the right speaker... no crosstalk because the crosstalk is cancelled out by the driver that is 180 degrees out of phase! It is like wearing headphones, only you are not wearing headphones.

While the sound won't be "behind you", it will sound as though it is coming directly from your side, and in most cases that will be more than enough to get the immersion in the sound. I highly recommend at least checking them out.

And no, I do not work for Polk. My theater is a 7.1 (well 7.2 really) setup with AV123 Rockets (RS1000's up front, RSC200 center, and RS750's for the sides and rears, and dual ULW-10 subs). I do have a Polk surround bar on the livingroom TV. Due to the way the room connects to other rooms, there is no way to run wires or locate rear or side speakers. And also due to those same conditions, surround bars which calibrate their drivers to focus the sound for reflection off the walls do not work because the rear wall is only a half wall and opens up fully on one side into the kitchen and there is no left side wall as that opens up into another room (so there is nothing to reflect off of without the reflection getting "trapped" into another space.

 

[sdifox]

Sound bar ain't gonna work in that space.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

for your budget, i say stick to 2 speakers and a sub. the rest can always be picked up later.

 

[Atherakhia]

I already have a PS3 and 360. Sorry for not making that clear. When I said "system to play it" I was meaning more of an HTPC that could play all available formats, or something of the like.

All I need is the TV and sound system to support it. I don't want to place speakers around the room personally. I also lack much furniture since the apartment I'm in now came fully furnished and they keep the furniture when I leave. The only thing I bought was the 2 systems and my current Aquos TV for the most part.

I'll probably do as suggested and focus on a 3.1 system that has a fair amount of expandability. I'll try and look up some reviews of the above mentioned receiver. With this in mind, would you still recommend the above speaker system?

As for mounting, I have a tri-bar mount that has been rated to hold up to a 60" TV and has 2 glass shelves below it. This whole thing is screwed into the wall. I have no idea the name of the unit because I unpacked it when I first got it, never got around to putting it together, and have since lost the box.

Since I have the systems already, what would you guys recommend for an HTPC? Is it still worth it? Like I said, I mainly want it to watch stuff I download, stream from hulu, etc. Is there a better option then an HTPC next to the system that I load movies on? How do the TVs with streaming built in work?

 

[Fallen Kell]

Just about anything will be tough in that space to be honest with you. You need to figure out how you want to orient the TV and seating area(s). Unfortunately if you use the side opposite the stairs for the TV, you have traffic flow issues in the room. I am not sure from the drawings if those are windows or doorways on the bottom. That might be the best location for the TV in terms of viewing and seating, but the window glare might be bad (assuming they are windows). The other option is to put the TV at the top, but you have that counter top/bar area there already.... Kind of rock and hard place if you ask me.

 

[vshah]

I already have a PS3 and 360. Sorry for not making that clear. When I said "system to play it" I was meaning more of an HTPC that could play all available formats, or something of the like.

All I need is the TV and sound system to support it. I don't want to place speakers around the room personally. I also lack much furniture since the apartment I'm in now came fully furnished and they keep the furniture when I leave. The only thing I bought was the 2 systems and my current Aquos TV for the most part.

I'll probably do as suggested and focus on a 3.1 system that has a fair amount of expandability. I'll try and look up some reviews of the above mentioned receiver. With this in mind, would you still recommend the above speaker system?

As for mounting, I have a tri-bar mount that has been rated to hold up to a 60" TV and has 2 glass shelves below it. This whole thing is screwed into the wall. I have no idea the name of the unit because I unpacked it when I first got it, never got around to putting it together, and have since lost the box.

Since I have the systems already, what would you guys recommend for an HTPC? Is it still worth it? Like I said, I mainly want it to watch stuff I download, stream from hulu, etc. Is there a better option then an HTPC next to the system that I load movies on? How do the TVs with streaming built in work?

HTPC is the best all around choice. no limitations on what you can and can't do. you can try boxee or xbmc as a good frontend to it. the only con is that netflix doesn't stream HD to pcs, but you have your 360 so you're covered. your old components should do fine for an HTPC with a $50 video card (low end 5000 series radeon). if you didn't already have the major components, another option would be a cheap media streamer like the wd live or asus o!play. these won't play hulu, but will play all your downloaded files. they can be found for under $100.

 

[Atherakhia]

Yea, I just need to work out the money I have after the move. Upgrading my PC is first on my to-do list. But plan to buy an HTPC case when I get all the other stuff as well as a video card.

With video card choice, is there anything I should look for? Above person mentioned to ensure the video card can handle sound through the hdmi?

And what of the sound card? I imagine a sound card wouldn't remove the need for a receiver, right? Can't just have everything going through the PC?

 

[kalrith]

before kalrith recommends it, i'm going to suggest his favorite receiver
denon 2308 from dakmart. audyssey room correction, and plenty of power.

http://www.dakmart.com/product_info.php?cPath=4_9_15&products_id=6511

Am I getting that predictable?

Another $1200 shipped 5.1 set is the ELT / MFW-15 set at AV123

http://www.av123.com//index.php?pag...facturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37

This is an awesome set. You could take the monitors and use them as computer speakers, sell them, or hang on to them once you get the room situation like you want and put them on stand or mount them on the ceiling.

I personally would buy the above components and stretch your budget to accomodate this 58" plasma. I know you said you want LCD, but I'm just saying what I would personally do. You can get that TV for $1410 shipped after cashback by searching Bing.com for tigerdirect and clicking the 12.5% cashback link. Just ask if you need any help doing that.

However, the TV choice really comes down to viewing distance. If you'll be 6-7 feet from the TV, then a 50" should do it. 8+ feet away would be better served by the 58" TV. At 10+ feet away even, I'd go with something even larger.

 

[Exterous]

With video card choice, is there anything I should look for? Above person mentioned to ensure the video card can handle sound through the hdmi?

And what of the sound card? I imagine a sound card wouldn't remove the need for a receiver, right? Can't just have everything going through the PC?

I would look at a 4650 or a 5450. The 5450 can do DX11 and Bitstreaming of audio although I doubt you would need either ability with the planned setup. These will do audio out through the HDMI allowing you to hook it up to the receiver with one cable. Either one should handle your video playback needs. You will want to consider passively cooled vs fan (passive is quiet and power friendly but runs hotter so it usually needs better ventillation)
If you stick with a video card that can do audio out you don't have to worry about a sound card.

You still need something to power the speakers via an amplifier so I would recommend keeping a receiver in the mix as it has a built in amp

 

[Atherakhia]

With the video cards that can handle sound through the hdmi, if I choose to use it in a dual monitor setup, will it give me the option to play a movie on one monitor with the sound going to the tv and play a game on my PC while having its sound go through headphones?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Are you aware of what PS3 can do with Media Center?

 

[Exterous]

With the video cards that can handle sound through the hdmi, if I choose to use it in a dual monitor setup, will it give me the option to play a movie on one monitor with the sound going to the tv and play a game on my PC while having its sound go through headphones?

At the same time or not? If your mobo has a headphone jack then you could change your default audio device, after starting the movie, from HDMI to the internal sound card and then use the headphone jack for the game

Alternativley you could use the headphone jack on the receiver. This would allow you to use headphones on whatever audio device the receiver is currently set to play

 

[Atherakhia]

No idea what the PS3 can do when hooked to a media center.

 

[vshah]

No idea what the PS3 can do when hooked to a media center.

the ps3 will basically BE your media center. i.e. it will replace your HTPC. it can stream any video/audio files stored on your main PC over the network. the 360 can work similarly as well, although i think the ps3 is a bit more flexible with file formats...

edit: as fallen kell said, you'll need a wired connection for HD streaming

 

[Fallen Kell]

No idea what the PS3 can do when hooked to a media center.

Not a lot if you are doing HD and have the PS3 on a wireless connection... Standard definition works great, but bump up to HD resolutions and wireless just doesn't cut it. For HD video recordings that my HTPC does, I typically will copy them to a 16GB SD card and then pop that into the SD slot in my PS3 (I have one of the original 60GB models...but upgraded the hard drive to 120gb).