Home Theater Recommendations

[Blieb]

I hope to close on a new construction condo next month. The builder let me run speaker wire before they put up the drywall. I wired it for 6.1 ...

I can either do ceiling recessed or cubes, the wires will drop from the ceiling.

Suggestions?

 

[Jeraden]

What do you mean by recessed or cubes?

 

[bozack]

I assume he means something recessed into the ceiling much like lighting, or small cubes similar to that of Bose...I am in the same situation as we are getting a new construction townhouse in two months...possibly will see if Cambridge soundworks has some small cubes like the Bose setup.

 

[Jeraden]

Oh, I thought you were talking about the actual ceiling. I'd definitely do external speakers. You can generally get much better quality ones than you can with built-ins. Plus its a lot easier to upgrade them in the future.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Blieb
I hope to close on a new construction condo next month. The builder let me run speaker wire before they put up the drywall. I wired it for 6.1 ...

I can either do ceiling recessed or cubes, the wires will drop from the ceiling.

Suggestions?

did you forget to do two runs for the rears? 7.1 is what you should be shooting for unless it is a really small room.

Also the speakers should be about two feet above the listening position. that should get you started.

 

[EvilYoda]

The in-ceiling/in-wall market is quite good these days, so you'll get more and better offerings going that route than you would otherwise...and by otherwise, you sound like you're thinking "Bose" or something like it. <shudder>

 

[Blieb]

Originally posted by: spidey07
did you forget to do two runs for the rears? 7.1 is what you should be shooting for unless it is a really small room.

Also the speakers should be about two feet above the listening position. that should get you started.

I have 7 runs:

3 front: 1L 1C 1R
3 rear: 1L 1C 1R
1 Sub
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From what I've heard (not into stereo much), that's 6.1 (6+1).

The speakers are higher than 2 feet above listening position though ... but because of the layout of the room, I really wouldn't want to put them against the back wall, since it will be a walkway, and the front wall has a built in entertainment center, so if I didn't ceiling mount in front of it, the walls of the center would cut the cross-sound.

 

[Viper GTS]

Hmm, only 6.1?

Anyway, if you can build them yourself http://www.gr-research.com/ makes some VERY nice kits.

A pair of A/V 3's (mains), three AV1's (surrounds + rear center), &amp; an A/V 3-S (Center). Add in a sub of your choice (Adire Tempest is a good place to start) &amp; you'll have a pretty decent setup.

If you plan on mounting the rears on the ceiling (not ideal, but that's OK) get some wall mount brackets so you can angle them somewhat appropriately.

Viper GTS

 

[ATLien247]

Personally, I would wire for 7.1 and then have identical floor standing speakers for both front and rear, then a pair of bipoles for the sides. Of course, this would only be the case if I had any semblance of expendable income...

 

[Blieb]

Originally posted by: EvilYoda
The in-ceiling/in-wall market is quite good these days, so you'll get more and better offerings going that route than you would otherwise...and by otherwise, you sound like you're thinking "Bose" or something like it. <shudder>

I'm thinking small, discrete. Not Bose.

I know the Bose issue is an ongoing one, no highs, no lows, must be bose --etc etc ... but my old man has 4 Bose 902's from like 1970 and they sound amazing. Even to this day they are simply amazing.

Realizing of course that since 1970 things have changed

 

[spidey07]

the tough part is going to be positioning you speakers. in a 5.1 setup you have L, C, R and two surround speakers mounted directly the left and right of the listening position.

in a 6.1/7.1 setup there is the addition of rear speakers (but the surrounds are unchanged)

I wish I had the link but dolby digital has a good paper on speaker placement.

 

[arod]

Klipsch has a very nice "small" speaker set although its only 5.1, id assume you could easily get another center to complete the 6.1 setup.... the package is called the qintets.

http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?Cid=42

The base folds to become a wall mount too which is nice.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: EvilYoda
The in-ceiling/in-wall market is quite good these days, so you'll get more and better offerings going that route than you would otherwise...and by otherwise, you sound like you're thinking "Bose" or something like it. <shudder>

But does one really want to hack open the walls of a new Condo just to install their home theatre? maybe a house with long term staying potential, but I know in my situation I wouldn't even consider it.

I myself am not ruling out a Bose option should no one else offer anything that I feel is as discreet in appearance and easily as installed, hopefully Cambridge soundworks or someone else offers something comparable so that I can save some money...

I believe my brother has a decent Kenwood setup or something but the size is far too large for my taste and my cats would have a field day with cloth covered speakers.

 

[spidey07]

bookmark this. read it. Covers everything you need to know.

http://www.dolby.com/Consumer/HomeEntertainment/Setup/

 

[Blieb]

Yeah, I just went to Dolby site and found this link:

Dolby Difference 5.1, 6.1, 7.1

I can't do 7.1 ... the room is an "open" room ...

floorplan.jpg

------

I'm going to edit that image to show placement of stuff ...

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: arod
Klipsch has a very nice "small" speaker set although its only 5.1, id assume you could easily get another center to complete the 6.1 setup.... the package is called the qintets.

http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?Cid=42

The base folds to become a wall mount too which is nice.

sorry for butting into this thread but I must say for my application those still appear to be far too large...any suggestions about half the size of these would be appreciated.

 

[Ilmater]

I'm assuming this is just a living room, right? Not an actual home theater. Assuming that's the case, 6.1 is more than what you need. Don't listen to a bunch of people (sorry guys, no offense) who claim to be experts just because they say you should get the latest and greatest standard out there. The absolute top audiophiles in the world will tell you that in your living room (and even some small home theaters), 5.1 is all you need. You just don't get an increased user experience from more speakers. The room isn't big enough to really show of the distinct placement of so many sounds. 7.1 isn't bad, but in a room that size, your front speakers can emulate the exact same experience.

Get them to wire up a 5.1 setup and you'll be fine. As for speakers, I think you've got the idea. Just make sure that they use decent wiring, especially for the surround speakers. AT LEAST 16 AUG wire, and I'd suggest more in the 10 - 12 range. I use 8 gauge wire for my surrounds, but I realize that's more than most want to use. Car audio stores will have decent quality wiring for that. You don't have to get MONSTER CABLE. It's over-priced IMO.

Is that enough information? Ask if you want more.

 

[Blieb]

Here's how I have it setup:
speaker_layout.gif

the wires come out on the "other side" of the TV wall ... The TV will rest high, over a fireplace. It's an electric fireplace, so there's no flu to worry about, which is how I get the space up top.

The one thing that "just is" is that I put a box in the rear of the room for the sub. The reason for this is that it's a condo, and I'm on the end. Directly behind the TV wall, there is another unit. I put it against the wall that doesn't have a neighbor out of respect for the fact that bass travels easily.

If there's really an issue with it sounding horrible though, I can move it up front next to the front wall box.

Again, all the "drops" come from the ceiling.

 

[spidey07]

how about moving your surrounds to beside the couch? Looks like there is a post to the right of the couch?

The other could go between the door and window.

about "sounding horrible" - most surround systems don't sound horrible, they just aren't living up to their potential due to poor placement.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Ilmater
I'm assuming this is just a living room, right? Not an actual home theater. Assuming that's the case, 6.1 is more than what you need. Don't listen to a bunch of people (sorry guys, no offense) who claim to be experts just because they say you should get the latest and greatest standard out there. The absolute top audiophiles in the world will tell you that in your living room (and even some small home theaters), 5.1 is all you need. You just don't get an increased user experience from more speakers. The room isn't big enough to really show of the distinct placement of so many sounds. 7.1 isn't bad, but in a room that size, your front speakers can emulate the exact same experience.

Get them to wire up a 5.1 setup and you'll be fine. As for speakers, I think you've got the idea. Just make sure that they use decent wiring, especially for the surround speakers. AT LEAST 16 AUG wire, and I'd suggest more in the 10 - 12 range. I use 8 gauge wire for my surrounds, but I realize that's more than most want to use. Car audio stores will have decent quality wiring for that. You don't have to get MONSTER CABLE. It's over-priced IMO.

Is that enough information? Ask if you want more.

While you are obviously correct, it never hurts to have wiring in place for more.

I have no need for anything over 5.1 for now, but if I were designing a room for future expansion I would wire for 7.1.

Even if the wires just end up hanging behind a picture, I would be much happier knowing they were there in case I ever had the urge to go 7.1.

Viper GTS

 

[Blieb]

Originally posted by: spidey07
how about moving your surrounds to beside the couch? Looks like there is a post to the right of the couch?

The other could go between the door and window.

about "sounding horrible" - most surround systems don't sound horrible, they just aren't living up to their potential due to poor placement.

Yeah, the drawing shows pillars, but there aren't any .... the plans have been changing a little here and there ...

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Blieb

Originally posted by: spidey07
how about moving your surrounds to beside the couch? Looks like there is a post to the right of the couch?

The other could go between the door and window.

about "sounding horrible" - most surround systems don't sound horrible, they just aren't living up to their potential due to poor placement.

Yeah, the drawing shows pillars, but there aren't any .... the plans have been changing a little here and there ...

gotcha. maybe you should go for 5.999...

 

[Blieb]

I think we got side-tracked ... I already ran and stapled the wires as shown in the picture ... drywall should commence Thursday I believe ...

For reference, 100ft of Monster's cheap in-wall is $79, the good stuff is $129 for 100ft. They're both 14 gauge.

I ran 12 gauge CL2 speaker wire that I got from Home Depot. It was like $65 for 250 feet. I used rubber shielded staples, and wherever I HAD to cross an electrical wire, I did it at 90 degrees and stapled the speaker wire to a support beam so they wouldn't touch.

I could easily cut out the circles to do recessed speakers ... realizing of course I'd have to leave them when I moved, lest there be holes in the ceiling! I'm leaning towards satellites ... just don't know what all is out there.

I'd hate to get some then see something way better later.

Edit:

I'm not looking to do it on the cheap, but I'm also not thinking over $900 for the speakers. Otherwise I'll have to put off purchase for a while. But it wouldn't be the end all if I found some for $1300 that I really had to have...

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Blieb
I could easily cut out the circles to do recessed speakers ... realizing of course I'd have to leave them when I moved, lest there be holes in the ceiling! I'm leaning towards satellites ... just don't know what all is out there.

No, no, BAD idea!

Speakers are much like a violin, the driver is the strings &amp; the enclosure is the body of the violin.

You can't just slap speakers in a wall &amp; expect them to sound the way they're supposed to.

The only circumstance you MIGHT want to do that is with an infinite baffle sub system, &amp; that's a little beyond what you're doing.

Go with some moderately sized satellites, mount them with pivoting brackets, &amp; when you leave just pull the brackets &amp; spackle the holes.

Viper GTS

 

[EvilYoda]

Inwalls can sound a lot better than you think, if they're done well. Do you have a budget, Blieb? In the very least, a setup consisting of ELF/SuperELFs all around is a great way to start. Check out creativesound for ideas...but maybe you've mentioned the budget and I'm just too lazy to read through