home repair: can a tile shower floor leak?

[DarkManX]

I have a shower that is completely made out of tile, the floor is like 1 inch tiles and the walls are made out of regular bathroom sized tile. it was built about 2 years ago prior to us moving in. now it appears as if the floor is leaking! the are some very minor cracks around the corners where the floor meets the wall and i guess there is nothing but grout there. I will post pictures of this later today when i get home. But can tile/grout really let water seep through??? and if so what is the fix? the shower looks very nice and i really do not want to rip it out.

*photos* shower

 

[SillyOReilly]

You'll need to grout the tiles again, that's all.

 

[herm0016]

the grout is porus and was never ment to keep water in the shower. underneath the tile and morter bed that the tile is set in will be a rubber, copper, or plastic drain pan. this is what keeps the shower from leaking. you need to figure out where the leak is. if it is around the drain, you can just re-install the drain with more caulk/plumbers putty to seal it. if it is the shower pan leaking you will need to bust out all the tile and put a new pan in to fix it correctly.

 

[olds]

If it's not too bad and only in the corners you can caulk it but you may have to replace the caulk every 6 months or so if it discolors.
The grout may have also never been sealed.

 

[SillyOReilly]

Originally posted by: herm0016
the grout is porus and was never ment to keep water in the shower. underneath the tile and morter bed that the tile is set in will be a rubber, copper, or plastic drain pan. this is what keeps the shower from leaking. you need to figure out where the leak is. if it is around the drain, you can just re-install the drain with more caulk/plumbers putty to seal it. if it is the shower pan leaking you will need to bust out all the tile and put a new pan in to fix it correctly.

Yea, he said it is leaking but doesn't say to where. A closet on the other side of the wall, bedroom or whatever.

I'm thinking he saw the cracks in the grout and only thinks it's leaking.

 

[DarkManX]

Originally posted by: SillyOReilly

Originally posted by: herm0016
the grout is porus and was never ment to keep water in the shower. underneath the tile and morter bed that the tile is set in will be a rubber, copper, or plastic drain pan. this is what keeps the shower from leaking. you need to figure out where the leak is. if it is around the drain, you can just re-install the drain with more caulk/plumbers putty to seal it. if it is the shower pan leaking you will need to bust out all the tile and put a new pan in to fix it correctly.

Yea, he said it is leaking but doesn't say to where. A closet on the other side of the wall, bedroom or whatever.

I'm thinking he saw the cracks in the grout and only thinks it's leaking.

sorry its leaking in into the garage celilng, which is bellow the shower. we took apart the service door on the side of the shower where the piping is and if u stick your hand under the rubber sheet that goes underneath the shower its filled with watter. we will rip apart the ceiling in the garage to figure out the exact cause of the leak.

 

[herm0016]

we had a similar problem in a show in my parents home some years ago, watch for mold growth under their too. it can get pretty nasty. Even if there is no mold their now, i would spray some bleach or other mold killing stuff in there just to be safe.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: herm0016
the grout is porus and was never ment to keep water in the shower. underneath the tile and morter bed that the tile is set in will be a rubber, copper, or plastic drain pan. this is what keeps the shower from leaking. you need to figure out where the leak is. if it is around the drain, you can just re-install the drain with more caulk/plumbers putty to seal it. if it is the shower pan leaking you will need to bust out all the tile and put a new pan in to fix it correctly.

perfectly said.

and neither caulk nor grout sealing will fix this problem. Caulk will not stand up to constant water exposure for very long, and grout sealing is meant to help keep grout clean, not to provide water proofing.

 

[911paramedic]

After you replace the pan at the bottom (if that is your intention) use waterproof mastic to lay the tile. It dries and acts like a rubber barrier, works great. (still seal the grout though, it's not waterproof but helps shed water)

 

[NoShangriLa]

Damaged shower pan liner or missing pan liner could be the cause of the leak, or failed seal/glue joint. Grout separation at the joint between the floor & wall is common due to shrinkage but that is an easy fix, but it isn't what cause the leak.

Pull the grate off the floor drain to see if the drain use glue down type or rubber gasket type. Test the drain, by filling up the floor drain only (use a full 5 gallon water bucket) and check for leak. You may need to repeat the steps 4-5 times to make sure that there is sufficient water make it past the ceiling for leak detection. Repair by install new rubber gasket and/or glue the joints as needed, and may need to open the ceiling below to do so if the leak doesn't stop.

Put a rag in the drain to plug it for the pan test; fill the shower floor with water up to the flood level rim (don't run the shower because it could be the water supply line that leaks) and look for leak.

My hunch is that there is a leak in the supply water line if it only start to leak now after 2 years of usage. Purchase a 1/2" plug (female iron pipe thread), a 1/2 by 6" (male iron pipe thread) long nipple, Teflon tape, and pipe dope, to test the water supply line. Unscrew the shower spout from the wall (broken spout or poor seal due to lack of tape and/or dope) and dope then tape both end of the nipple with one end capped; hand tighten the cap then wrench it on for 1.5-2 turns; repeat the tighten procedure for the nipple to install it into the wingback fitting inside the wall. Turn the water on Hot and let it stand for 15 minute (code call for 1 hour test) to look for leak, then turn it on to cold for 15 minute (code call for 1 hour test) and look for leak.

Water supply leak -- Access the back side of the shower wall if possible, other wise the shower wall has to come down.

Shower pan liner leak -- shower wall & floor has to come out and install a new shower & floor drain.

Good luck!

 

[Engineer]

Isn't there a latex fortified grout used just for this application (with a pan below that is)?

 

[NoShangriLa]

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
After you replace the pan at the bottom (if that is your intention) use waterproof mastic to lay the tile. It dries and acts like a rubber barrier, works great. (still seal the grout though, it's not waterproof but helps shed water)

Mastic is not design for shower tiles because it will soften and fail in an area that subject to high water exposure. Thin set is the way to go for wet area.

 

[herm0016]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

pan liner or supply pipe....

he already stated he took the access panel off the wall to look at the piping, he would have seen a supply pipe leak their if it was the problem. the pan could start leaking if the glue dried out on a seam or a small hole finally corroded away or any number of other things.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: DarkManX

Originally posted by: SillyOReilly

Originally posted by: herm0016
the grout is porus and was never ment to keep water in the shower. underneath the tile and morter bed that the tile is set in will be a rubber, copper, or plastic drain pan. this is what keeps the shower from leaking. you need to figure out where the leak is. if it is around the drain, you can just re-install the drain with more caulk/plumbers putty to seal it. if it is the shower pan leaking you will need to bust out all the tile and put a new pan in to fix it correctly.

Yea, he said it is leaking but doesn't say to where. A closet on the other side of the wall, bedroom or whatever.

I'm thinking he saw the cracks in the grout and only thinks it's leaking.

sorry its leaking in into the garage celilng, which is bellow the shower. we took apart the service door on the side of the shower where the piping is and if u stick your hand under the rubber sheet that goes underneath the shower its filled with watter. we will rip apart the ceiling in the garage to figure out the exact cause of the leak.

Sorry but the shower needs to come out. If it was done correct you should get at least 10+ years out of it. When it leaks down like that it has a major failure.

Go here...
John Bridge Tile forum

I used a shower kit to do my walk in shower. Go to the JB forums and post picks of what you see and they will tell you how to go. But right now it sounds liek there is no easy fix, the shower will have to come out.
But check your pipes to make sure that is not it, if not then pull it out.

 

[NoShangriLa]

Originally posted by: herm0016

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

pan liner or supply pipe....

he already stated he took the access panel off the wall to look at the piping, he would have seen a supply pipe leak their if it was the problem. the pan could start leaking if the glue dried out on a seam or a small hole finally corroded away or any number of other things.

Didn't see it because I was typing when he posted them.

 

[herm0016]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
After you replace the pan at the bottom (if that is your intention) use waterproof mastic to lay the tile. It dries and acts like a rubber barrier, works great. (still seal the grout though, it's not waterproof but helps shed water)

Mastic is not design for shower tiles because it will soften and fail in an area that subject to high water exposure. Thin set is the way to go for wet area.

they do make a liquid based liner material now. it is some sort of latex membrane material not a mastic. It is supposed to work better than the rubber sheets. it is spread underneath the mortar bed or underneath a thinset with a special additive to make the thinset more flexible. We used it some years ago when installing a marble shower in a boat.


edit for clarity

 

[911paramedic]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
After you replace the pan at the bottom (if that is your intention) use waterproof mastic to lay the tile. It dries and acts like a rubber barrier, works great. (still seal the grout though, it's not waterproof but helps shed water)

Mastic is not design for shower tiles because it will soften and fail in an area that subject to high water exposure. Thin set is the way to go for wet area.

The choice of setting material is very important. There are now many different materials available to the DIYer or professional tile contractor, and making the right choice can be a difficult tak. Thinset cement is the material used to attach tiles. Although it is not necessary, latex can be added as an additive. Latex is a white mixture that you mix with your cement. It is usually not used for indoor applications, but provides a stronger and more water resistant material than thinset used on its own.

Looks like we are both right.

 

[NoShangriLa]

Originally posted by: herm0016

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
After you replace the pan at the bottom (if that is your intention) use waterproof mastic to lay the tile. It dries and acts like a rubber barrier, works great. (still seal the grout though, it's not waterproof but helps shed water)

Mastic is not design for shower tiles because it will soften and fail in an area that subject to high water exposure. Thin set is the way to go for wet area.

they do make a liquid based liner material now. it is some sort of latex membrane material not a mastic. It is supposed to work better than the rubber sheets. it is spread underneath the mortar bed or underneath a thinset with a special additive to make the thinset more flexible. We used it some years ago when installing a marble shower in a boat.


edit for clarity

There are liquid base liners and sheet liners and they both work. Old timer swear by liquid base & younger folk swears by sheet liners. Both work well, but I seem to see sheet liners are the one that is being use more often currently.

IMHO, an acrylic or fiber glass shower pan is the way to go to minimize leak and reduce cleaning effort.

 

[NoShangriLa]

Originally posted by: Engineer
Isn't there a latex fortified grout used just for this application (with a pan below that is)?

Yes there are, however it still leaks because the grout tend to cracks. The pan is what prevent the leak.

 

[NoShangriLa]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: herm0016
the grout is porus and was never ment to keep water in the shower. underneath the tile and morter bed that the tile is set in will be a rubber, copper, or plastic drain pan. this is what keeps the shower from leaking. you need to figure out where the leak is. if it is around the drain, you can just re-install the drain with more caulk/plumbers putty to seal it. if it is the shower pan leaking you will need to bust out all the tile and put a new pan in to fix it correctly.

perfectly said.

and neither caulk nor grout sealing will fix this problem. Caulk will not stand up to constant water exposure for very long, and grout sealing is meant to help keep grout clean, not to provide water proofing.

Don't forget lead pan.

Lead = plumber

 

[herm0016]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: herm0016
the grout is porus and was never ment to keep water in the shower. underneath the tile and morter bed that the tile is set in will be a rubber, copper, or plastic drain pan. this is what keeps the shower from leaking. you need to figure out where the leak is. if it is around the drain, you can just re-install the drain with more caulk/plumbers putty to seal it. if it is the shower pan leaking you will need to bust out all the tile and put a new pan in to fix it correctly.

perfectly said.

and neither caulk nor grout sealing will fix this problem. Caulk will not stand up to constant water exposure for very long, and grout sealing is meant to help keep grout clean, not to provide water proofing.

Don't forget lead pan.

Lead = plumber

in a house built 2 years ago? maybe 50 or 60 years ago, but most had cast iron tub/showers

 

[olds]

Cut out the ceiling and look in to see if it's a drain or supply line.

 

[DarkManX]

here are the photos, my 3 mega pixel camera is kinda crappy u cant make out the cracks.

shower

 

[Midlander]

If you have the correct rubber sheet under the shower and it's filled with water, it is likely that the drain is not installed properly. There are weep holes around the edge of the drain, below the tile and thinset. These holes are supposed to let water down the drain if it gets behind the tile. Also, the rubber sheet should be properly supported from below--it should be on a sloped surface (sloped toward the drain). That prevents large amounts of water from accumulating.

Good luck.

 

[NoShangriLa]

Originally posted by: DarkManX
here are the photos, my 3 mega pixel camera is kinda crappy u cant make out the cracks.

shower

The cracks mostly is a cosmetic problem other than trap dirt/grimes.

I'm not sure as to what you call a shower pan liner, but you shouldn't be able to reach inside because the pvc sheet should be cast in the middle of 2 layers of concrete or at the very least wedge between the concrete top and wood sub floor.

Water on the side of the PVC liner sheet indicate that the water source is from above or at the same height (water doesn't go up hill).

Check you water supply line as I suggested above, because the likely leak is from damage shower spout or improper tape/dope sealed.