Home> Politics Obama Pledges To 'Degrade and Ultimately Destroy' ISIS

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,896
7,920
136
- Align short term interests of Assad and ISIS

Oh !@#$!!

Didn't think about that one. What we do in Syria is going to be a disaster greater than Bush's wildest dream. We'll give Assad every reason to use his chemical weapons.

Maybe he'll instruct ISIS to use them on us.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
Seems like Obama is letting perfect be the enemy of good.
If goal is to go after ISIS, we should be helping Assad, not Syrian opposition.
If we arm opposition:
- They'll use those arms to fight against Assad, weakening both, and leaving ISIS relatively stronger.
- Align short term interests of Assad and ISIS in defeating the opposition, such a defeat risking more US weapons being captured by ISIS.
- Introduce risk of those weapons ending up in hands of ISIS through unscrupulous or sympathetic elements of opposition

You can not split the difference here and hope that both ISIS will be defeated and democracy emerges in Syria. You have to defeat ISIS first, and then decide what to do with Assad a few years down the road.
There were some of us here, back in the early "attack Iraq" days, asking for us to take over Iraq. Make it ours. Establish a base in the Middle of the Middle East.

Instead, here we are (again) today, asked to support one gang of religious freaks or another.

-John
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
All I know is after Obama's speech and then listening to McCain, who btw let him out of his coffin?, all I know is that we all should be damn thankful McCain isn't president.
Gee... If we'd only kept troops on the ground in Iraq endlessly, all would have been hunky dory over there today.
Minus another unknown number of dead US soldiers as well.
And trillions of tax payer dollars wasted for nothing.
A wise man knows when its time to leave.
Even Nixon himself was wise enough to know it was time to leave Vietnam.
And I still don't get why we are over there in the first place. Or even care?
The oil?
Why should we care?
Or just maybe we don't really care.
The media does a great job of making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Naturally the media wants war. It gives them something to do.
But when that shock and awe grows old and the death toll starts adding up, the media is notoriously silent.
ISIS is not coming to get you.
But the media is.
And while ISIS likes to cut off heads, the media loves to cut off balls.
We've had a lot of dead American's all around the globe in foreign lands, and we never went to war over that.
And atrocities much worse then ISIS, and we turned and looked the other way.
Give a big round of applause for the media and their abilities to stir up American anger over much to do about nothing.
They attacked us first, Sportage, never forget that.

It's getting quite obvious today, on the eve of the 12th year anniversary of 9/11, that the Islam Terrorists will not stop, until we stop them.

They are a plague on the earth.

-John
 

bradley

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2000
3,671
2
81
ISIS is to terror what the mafia is to crime. But its goal is not making money; its goal is remaking the world -- and imposing its radical beliefs on people everywhere.

These last few months, we as a country have been awakened to danger and are called to defend freedom. Our grief has turned to anger, and anger to resolution. Whether we bring our enemies to justice, or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done!

We need to uphold the values of America, and remember why so many have come here. We are in a fight for our principles, and our first responsibility is to live by them. No one should be singled out for unfair treatment or unkind words because of their ethnic background or religious faith.

ISIS practices a fringe form of Islamic extremism that has been rejected by Muslim scholars and the vast majority of Muslim clerics -- a fringe movement that perverts the peaceful teachings of Islam. The terrorists' directive commands them to kill Christians and Jews, to kill all Americans, and make no distinction among military and civilians, including women and children.

Why do they hate us? They hate our democratically elected government. Their leaders are self-appointed. They hate our freedoms -- our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other.

They want to overthrow existing governments in many Muslim countries, such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan. They want to drive Israel out of the Middle East. They want to drive Christians and Jews out of vast regions of Asia and Africa.

These terrorists kill not merely to end lives, but to disrupt and end a way of life. With every atrocity, they hope that America grows fearful, retreating from the world and forsaking our friends. They stand against us, because we stand in their way.

We are not deceived by their pretenses to piety. We have seen their kind before. They are the heirs of all the murderous ideologies of the 20th century. By sacrificing human life to serve their radical visions -- by abandoning every value except the will to power -- they follow in the path of fascism, and Nazism, and totalitarianism. And they will follow that path all the way, to where it ends: in history's unmarked grave of discarded lies.

This continuation of Iraq and new Syrian War will not be like the Iraq War a decade ago, with a decisive liberation of territory and a swift conclusion. It will not look like the air war above Kosovo many years ago, where no ground troops were used and not a single American was lost in combat.

This is not, however, just America's fight. And what is at stake is not just America's freedom. This is the world's fight. This is civilization's fight. This is the fight of all who believe in progress and pluralism, tolerance and freedom.

Either you are with us, or you are with the damned terrorists. lol
 

schmuckley

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2011
2,335
1
0
And you're just a big silly goose! So there!

No motherfucker,you are a communist,It's not even funny.
There will probably be terrorist attacks tomorrow.
I know you get paid to minimize/marginalize things.
Oh I know..let's stop ISIS by supporting people that support ISIS.
Yeah! that sounds like a solid plan! :rolleyes:
Obama built ISIS.
Bhenghazi was about arming ISIS and then covering it up.
This is how it is.
I don't like being lied to.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
ISIS is to terror what the mafia is to crime. But its goal is not making money; its goal is remaking the world -- and imposing its radical beliefs on people everywhere.

These last few months, we as a country have been awakened to danger and are called to defend freedom. Our grief has turned to anger, and anger to resolution. Whether we bring our enemies to justice, or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done!

We need to uphold the values of America, and remember why so many have come here. We are in a fight for our principles, and our first responsibility is to live by them. No one should be singled out for unfair treatment or unkind words because of their ethnic background or religious faith.

ISIS practices a fringe form of Islamic extremism that has been rejected by Muslim scholars and the vast majority of Muslim clerics -- a fringe movement that perverts the peaceful teachings of Islam. The terrorists' directive commands them to kill Christians and Jews, to kill all Americans, and make no distinction among military and civilians, including women and children.

Why do they hate us? They hate our democratically elected government. Their leaders are self-appointed. They hate our freedoms -- our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other.

They want to overthrow existing governments in many Muslim countries, such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan. They want to drive Israel out of the Middle East. They want to drive Christians and Jews out of vast regions of Asia and Africa.

These terrorists kill not merely to end lives, but to disrupt and end a way of life. With every atrocity, they hope that America grows fearful, retreating from the world and forsaking our friends. They stand against us, because we stand in their way.

We are not deceived by their pretenses to piety. We have seen their kind before. They are the heirs of all the murderous ideologies of the 20th century. By sacrificing human life to serve their radical visions -- by abandoning every value except the will to power -- they follow in the path of fascism, and Nazism, and totalitarianism. And they will follow that path all the way, to where it ends: in history's unmarked grave of discarded lies.

This continuation of Iraq and new Syrian War will not be like the Iraq War a decade ago, with a decisive liberation of territory and a swift conclusion. It will not look like the air war above Kosovo many years ago, where no ground troops were used and not a single American was lost in combat.

This is not, however, just America's fight. And what is at stake is not just America's freedom. This is the world's fight. This is civilization's fight. This is the fight of all who believe in progress and pluralism, tolerance and freedom.

Either you are with us, or you are with the damned terrorists. lol
Good post... in risk of being rude, did you write it?

-John
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
No motherfucker,you are a communist,It's not even funny.
There will probably be terrorist attacks tomorrow.
I know you get paid to minimize/marginalize things.
Oh I know..let's stop ISIS by supporting people that support ISIS.
Yeah! that sounds like a solid plan! :rolleyes:
Obama built ISIS.
Bhenghazi was about arming ISIS and then covering it up.
This is how it is.
I don't like being lied to.

I'm a communist? Cool, I had no idea. Thanks for letting me know.

Earlier you called me a traitor. Just who is it that I've betrayed?

I'm a paid shill? Who's paying me? Obama? ISIS? I'd like to know because I still haven't received any money.

You write like an absolute loon.
 
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OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
A community activist getting owned on international issues.... who didn't see this coming.
 

schmuckley

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2011
2,335
1
0
I'm a communist? Cool, I had no idea. Thanks for letting me know.

Earlier you called me a traitor. Just who is it that I've betrayed?

I'm a paid shill? Who's paying me? Obama? ISIS? I'd like to know because I still haven't received any money.

You write like an absolute loon.
Oh.whoops,You're A Canuckian Socialist.
I'd bet you get paid to troll forums.
Indeed I would.
That sir, is a lie.
 
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CLite

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2005
1,726
7
76
We would be better off arming Assad. Seeing as obama is now going to bomb the rebels in Syria we have armed to help overthrow Assad.



You linked an article that directly counters what you just said. The article correctly asserts that the arms were stolen from the moderate rebels, which mainly got destroyed by ISIS due to our lack of involvement in Syria. Unless you are implying Obama is bombing the moderate rebels?

This kind of logic would be like accusing depositors in a bank of funding criminals if the bank gets robbed.
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,669
266
126
I've said it on here before and said it 10 years ago - when dealing with these groups in the ME, it's like shoveling out horse manure and replacing it with cow manure. The end result smells just as bad, or worse, and no matter how careful you are you get sh*t on yourself.

The exact same thing happened in Afghanistan in the 1980's. The intention was to arm moderate elements of the mujahideen.

These groups are like the mafia families. They may hate each other and kill each other... but they will work together when the FBI comes after them.

It always seems like picking sides in this is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Seems like Obama is letting perfect be the enemy of good.
If goal is to go after ISIS, we should be helping Assad, not Syrian opposition.
If we arm opposition:
- They'll use those arms to fight against Assad, weakening both, and leaving ISIS relatively stronger.
- Align short term interests of Assad and ISIS in defeating the opposition, such a defeat risking more US weapons being captured by ISIS.
- Introduce risk of those weapons ending up in hands of ISIS through unscrupulous or sympathetic elements of opposition

You can not split the difference here and hope that both ISIS will be defeated and democracy emerges in Syria. You have to defeat ISIS first, and then decide what to do with Assad a few years down the road.

IF we did that we would have to allign with the soviets. not sure he wants to do that. though i gotta say i think its a good plan.
It always seems like picking sides in this is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end.

good way to put it.

What could go wrong? :D

gee maybe if we had a written account of when we tried this before! oh boy...this won't end well.

So Obama will bomb Syria? He's really been trying to for the last two years.

first thought i had also. he finally gets to bomb syria.
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
2
0
Not sure why we'd arm the moderate rebels. ISIS and Assad have already wiped them out.

Honestly, when the Syrian civil war happened, that faction nearly had entire control of Syria. But today they are less than 10% of the country and fading fast. What happened? ISIS and rebels stopped being allies and split the rebels into two factions.

To arm them is only going to arm either Assad or ISIS as they get squashed. Right now they are in their death throws. And a year ago, they were allies with ISIS, so even if we armed them, they could very easily join up with ISIS again and resolve their differences.

The only faction who I'd trust to arm is Assad himself. I would rather have him running Syria over ISIS or the "moderate" rebels (who were once allies with ISIS.)
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
2
0
Why do they hate us? They hate our democratically elected government. Their leaders are self-appointed. They hate our freedoms -- our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other.

I love this quote because of how wrong it is, and is just a line of propaganda to make us feel better about our actions.
 
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schmuckley

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2011
2,335
1
0
They hate us because our government has been mucking around over there too much,arming terrorists,killing people.
Basically stirring the poo.
Obama wants to do more poo stirring.
 
Feb 16, 2005
14,057
5,398
136
No motherfucker,you are a communist,It's not even funny.
There will probably be terrorist attacks tomorrow.
I know you get paid to minimize/marginalize things.
Oh I know..let's stop ISIS by supporting people that support ISIS.
Yeah! that sounds like a solid plan! :rolleyes:
Obama built ISIS.
Bhenghazi was about arming ISIS and then covering it up.
This is how it is.
I don't like being lied to.

Wow, you really went all out nutbag here. Congrats, and take your meds.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,103
1,550
126
They attacked us first, Sportage, never forget that.

It's getting quite obvious today, on the eve of the 12th year anniversary of 9/11, that the Islam Terrorists will not stop, until we stop them.

They are a plague on the earth.

-John

First off it's the 13th anniversary of 9/11. Second, no one in Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. We, very much, opted to attack Iraq first. Just because Muslims from Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan attacked the US does not mean that the Muslims in Iraq should have been attacked.
 

CLite

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2005
1,726
7
76
Not sure why we'd arm the moderate rebels. ISIS and Assad have already wiped them out.

Honestly, when the Syrian civil war happened, that faction nearly had entire control of Syria. But today they are less than 10% of the country and fading fast. What happened? ISIS and rebels stopped being allies and split the rebels into two factions.

To arm them is only going to arm either Assad or ISIS as they get squashed. Right now they are in their death throws. And a year ago, they were allies with ISIS, so even if we armed them, they could very easily join up with ISIS again and resolve their differences.

The only faction who I'd trust to arm is Assad himself. I would rather have him running Syria over ISIS or the "moderate" rebels (who were once allies with ISIS.)

I'm not sure if this post was directed at me, but I never said we should arm them at this point but rather pointed out that one of the criticisms was that we did not sufficiently arm them over the last two years which led to their failure. My post was in response to the absurd claim by Rudder that Obama wants to bomb the rebels he armed.

ISIS and FSA were never allies, ISIS existed before the Syrian war (under another name) and when it entered the war it was not welcomed by FSA.
 

schmuckley

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2011
2,335
1
0
First off it's the 13th anniversary of 9/11. Second, no one in Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. We, very much, opted to attack Iraq first. Just because Muslims from Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan attacked the US does not mean that the Muslims in Iraq should have been attacked.
All true.
The real reason for Iraq war: http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-iraq-war-ten-years-of-u-s-crimes-against-humanity/5327738

It was also a big cash-grab (literally) for certain people: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/13/world/la-fg-missing-billions-20110613
 
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Feb 16, 2005
14,057
5,398
136
If we arm rebels, those arms come back to fire at us, if we don't arm the rebels we are indirectly supporting the attackers. Absolutely a win/win no matter what Obama chooses to do. :rolleyes:
 

unokitty

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2012
3,346
1
0
41%2B0K1JIvhL.gif


A Democratic President that orders in advisors and air strikes?

Johnson, 1964? No, Obama, 2014!

WAR is a racket. It always has been.


True in '64. True now.

Uno
Sentry Dog Handler
US Army 69-71
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
2
0
I'm not sure if this post was directed at me, but I never said we should arm them at this point but rather pointed out that one of the criticisms was that we did not sufficiently arm them over the last two years which led to their failure. My post was in response to the absurd claim by Rudder that Obama wants to bomb the rebels he armed.

ISIS and FSA were never allies, ISIS existed before the Syrian war (under another name) and when it entered the war it was not welcomed by FSA.

Ok. Yeah, I'm doing some wiki reading. Looks like I was confusing some things. I was thinking of the Al-Nursa Front. Which the USA would not supply anyways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Nusra_Front

So disregard. I stand corrected.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,160
1,634
126
The only way to defeat a terrorist group is by removing the poverty. There are 2 ways to remove poverty, both are incredibly insanely expensive and complicated. One involves unforgivable and genocidal crimes against humanity, the other involves empathy and charity on a scale not seen before.