• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Home network, two pc's, router/gateway do both machines have to have IP's?

MichaelD

Lifer
Maybe my title is misleading. Here's what I want to do. (In W2K Pro)

I have my main rig and my DinkyDell (older Dell pc) Both machines are loaded w/W2K Pro. I want to set up a little network and use the Dell as a server for files, internet caching and so on.

I have a Netgear RT314 that'll be connecting them both. Right now, I don't have the Dell hooked up yet. I noticed that my main rig doesn't have an IP addy. It has a "Name" but it's not an IP. I connect to the internet thru my router. It keeps my connection to SWBell alive 24/7.

Do I have to make up IP's for both pc's in order for them to talk to each other?
Where in W2K do I do this?

I appreciate you gurus answering some very basic questions for the networking newbie with his Wannabearealserver DinkyDell. Thanks!
 
Do I have to make up IP's for both pc's in order for them to talk to each other?

Yes. You usually use what are know as "private" or "reserved" address space IPs, eg., 10.x.x.x, 172.16.x.x, or 192.168.x.x.

Where in W2K do I do this?

Most cable/DSL routers allow you to set them up as DHCP servers and if you set your PCs up for DHCP, then when you boot them they'll blap for an address and other key info and the router's DHCP server will give them an address.

There are a bunch of threads here about your model router and you would need to get in there and enable DHCP, giving it additional info regarding where your ISP's DNS is (if the router itself is hard-coded with that info - otherwise it might already have it).

If you right-click "My Network Places", and look at its properties, and then right click "Local Area Network" and look at its properties, you'll see the Network Properties screen that can be configured.
 


<< Do I have to make up IP's for both pc's in order for them to talk to each other?

Yes. You usually use what are know as &quot;private&quot; or &quot;reserved&quot; address space IPs, eg., 10.x.x.x, 172.16.x.x, or 192.168.x.x.
>>


The answer to this is actually no. You don't need internet at all for peer-to-peer networking. Just right click My Network Places>Properties>LAN connection>Properties... in there u'll see all your protocols and bindings, make sure that both win2k machines are using the same protocol. TCP/IP is the default and internet standard, but for performance purposes, I'd suggest you use NetBeui instead, it's faster and less overhead. In this dialog box, u can see if file and print sharing is installed and enabled, i think in 2k it is by default but i could be wrong (u'll need it installed and enabled to accomplish this). Next, right click My Computer>Properties>Network Identification... make sure the machines are on the same workgroup. You should be set from here...


<< Most cable/DSL routers allow you to set them up as DHCP servers and if you set your PCs up for DHCP, then when you boot them they'll blap for an address and other key info and the router's DHCP server will give them an address. >>


It's not actually DHCP, it's called NAT (Network Address Translation). Basically, this is what gives u those private IPs Poof mentioned. If you have internet on the win2k machine, everything is working fine... All windows OSes are set to seek a DHCP at bootup, which NAT acts like, so there's no need to set IPs. If you goto Start>Run>type &quot;cmd&quot;>type &quot;ipconfig&quot; you should see all your IP info. It should tell you your External IP, your gateway (something like 192.168.0.1), your subnet 255.255.255.0 and your IP which would be someting like 192.168.0.2.

HTH
 
TechWhore: You're wrong like you thought 🙂

File/Printer Sharing is not loaded by default, but the following is:

Client for Netware Networks
Client for Microsoft Networks
(NIC Adapter)
Nwlink Netbios (this is not NetBeui)
Nwlink IPX/SPX
Internet Protocol TCP/IP
 


<< File/Printer Sharing is not loaded by default, but the following is:

Client for Netware Networks
Client for Microsoft Networks
(NIC Adapter)
Nwlink Netbios (this is not NetBeui)
Nwlink IPX/SPX
Internet Protocol TCP/IP
>>


If IPX is installed by default, you should remove it. It has the potential to bog down your networking because it broadcasts...

 


<<

<< Do I have to make up IP's for both pc's in order for them to talk to each other?

Yes. You usually use what are know as &quot;private&quot; or &quot;reserved&quot; address space IPs, eg., 10.x.x.x, 172.16.x.x, or 192.168.x.x.
>>

>>



Most DSL/Cable routers will only allow you to use the 192.168.etc

The answer to this is actually no. You don't need internet at all for peer-to-peer networking. Just right click My Network Places>Properties>LAN connection>Properties... in there u'll see all your protocols and bindings, make sure that both win2k machines are using the same protocol. TCP/IP is the default and internet standard, but for performance purposes, I'd suggest you use NetBeui instead, it's faster and less overhead. In this dialog box, u can see if file and print sharing is installed and enabled, i think in 2k it is by default but i could be wrong (u'll need it installed and enabled to accomplish this). Next, right click My Computer>Properties>Network Identification... make sure the machines are on the same workgroup. You should be set from here...[/i] >>



Yer right if he doesn't want to browse with the other machines... if he does want internet accessablity on those machines he has to setup TCP/IP and assign addresses to those systems or have the router act as a DHCP server.




<<

<< Most cable/DSL routers allow you to set them up as DHCP servers and if you set your PCs up for DHCP, then when you boot them they'll blap for an address and other key info and the router's DHCP server will give them an address. >>


It's not actually DHCP, it's called NAT (Network Address Translation). Basically, this is what gives u those private IPs Poof mentioned. If you have internet on the win2k machine, everything is working fine... All windows OSes are set to seek a DHCP at bootup, which NAT acts like, so there's no need to set IPs. If you goto Start>Run>type &quot;cmd&quot;>type &quot;ipconfig&quot; you should see all your IP info. It should tell you your External IP, your gateway (something like 192.168.0.1), your subnet 255.255.255.0 and your IP which would be someting like 192.168.0.2.HTH
>>



Actually, you're wrong. This is DHCP... the router is assigning an address to the system when it boots and requests one. NAT is the ablity for an external address to mask an internal network. NAT doesn't really have anything to do with assigning addresses.

Ummm... there is no &quot;external&quot; and &quot;internal&quot; ip address... well actually, lemme qualify that... if your system was running as your NAT box you'd have an internal and external ip address... but for systems within the NAT you have only one IP address.

Here's are the definitions to clarify things:

DHCP:
Short for Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol, a protocol for assigning dynamic IP addresses to devices on a network. With
dynamic addressing, a device can have a different IP address every time it connects to the network. In some systems, the
device's IP address can even change while it is still connected. DHCP also supports a mix of static and dynamic IP addresses.

Dynamic addressing simplifies network administration because the software keeps track of IP addresses rather than requiring
an administrator to manage the task. This means that a new computer can be added to a network without the hassle of manually
assigning it a unique IP address. Many ISPs use dynamic IP addressing for dial-up users.


NAT:
Short for Network Address Translation, an Internet standard that enables a local-area network (LAN) to use one set of IP
addresses for internal traffic and a second set of addresses for external traffic. A NAT box located where the LAN meets the
Internet makes all necessary IP address translations.

NAT serves two main purposes:

Provides a type of firewall by hiding internal IP addresses
Enables a company to use more internal IP addresses. Since they're used internally only, there's no possibility of conflict
with IP addresses used by other companies and organizations.
Allows a company to combine multiple ISDN connections into a single Internet connection.
 
Thanks for all the replies. My head hurts, but that's just 'cause you're all filling it up w/networking knowledge! 😉

OK, when I telnet into my router (I know how to do that, so I'm not a TOTAL lost cause 😉 I open telnet and type &quot;open 192.168.0.1&quot; enter my pword and I'm in.

I have a dynamic IP assigned by SWBELL, but unless I reboot the router, it stays the same. I've had the same IP for almost a month now.

I guess how I set things up all depends on what I want to do with the two boxes, huh?

Well, right now, being that I have a small one bedroom apt, I don't have room for another whole rig (i.e. pc/monitor/kb/mouse) so I just want to use the DinkyDell as a file server and possibly some firewall/proxy/caching duties...when I get around to learning how to set all that up. Right now, the Netgear Router is set up with some custom filters I got off another website and Netgears site. I fairly decent firewall...score &quot;0&quot; on their tests.

So, the replies here have been very educational but there seems to be some dispute as to whether or not I need to assign both pc's an IP. If I do, do I do that on each machine in &quot;Network Properties&quot; first, then go into the router and assign their individual IP's to whatever port (1-4) they are hooked up to? Or do I not name each machine in &quot;Network Props&quot; but name them in the router?

Obviously, I'm a bit dense...thanks for your tuttleage. 🙂
 


<< Most DSL/Cable routers will only allow you to use the 192.168.etc

The answer to this is actually no. You don't need internet at all for peer-to-peer networking. Just right click My Network
Places>Properties>LAN connection>Properties... in there u'll see all your protocols and bindings, make sure that both win2k
machines are using the same protocol. TCP/IP is the default and internet standard, but for performance purposes, I'd suggest you
use NetBeui instead, it's faster and less overhead. In this dialog box, u can see if file and print sharing is installed and enabled, i
think in 2k it is by default but i could be wrong (u'll need it installed and enabled to accomplish this). Next, right click My
Computer>Properties>Network Identification... make sure the machines are on the same workgroup. You should be set from here...>>

Yer right if he doesn't want to browse with the other machines... if he does want internet accessablity on those machines he has
to setup TCP/IP and assign addresses to those systems or have the router act as a DHCP server.
>>


Well, Netbeui rides over TCP/IP, that means you have to have both installed. Under My Network Places>Properties>LAN connection>Properties just hit add, double click netbeui. You'll still have internet but p2p networking will be done via netbeui which is faster. I'm sorry i had to stop using netbeui, I added a linux box. Netbeui is for MS only, so i have to use TCP/IP now and it's significantly slower for p2p.

As far as setting up IPs behind the router, you shouldn't need to. Like i said before, if u have internet everything is working ok. Like i also said before, by default windows is set to seek a DHCP upon bootup. So you CAN set the IPs manually, but windows will do it for u if u don't.


<< Ummm... there is no &quot;external&quot; and &quot;internal&quot; ip address... well actually, lemme qualify that... if your system was running as your NAT box you'd have an internal and external ip address... but for systems within the NAT you have only one IP address. >>


I suppose this is &quot;technically&quot; true, but since the 192.168.x.x series of private IPs are non-internet routable IPs you still essentially have an external IP via the gateway.
 
Thanks Techwhore. I'll give it a shot when I get home. So, once I add Netbui, I don't have to configure it? Just install it and reboot each box?
 


<< So, once I add Netbui, I don't have to configure it? Just install it and reboot each box? >>


That's correct. If u have trouble seeing each machine on the network, go through the above steps i posted earlier to make sure everything's alright. Make sure u add netbeui to BOTH machines.

NOTE: When u network with windows 2000, it's going to prompt you for authentication before you can access shares. If u set up user accounts on each machine to match the login for 2000 it should seamlessly share without authentication (because authentication has alredy taken place). To make this more clear, let's assume your username to login to windows is &quot;Blah&quot;, if u create an account called &quot;Blah&quot; on the OTHER windows 2k machine with the same PW and vice versa, sharing should be authentication free... Do u see how that works? It doesn't prompt you twice because you've already logged in. There are other ways to go about doing this, but i don't recommend any other way. This is the best/most secure method to achieve this.
 
All you guys - DON'T GET ME STARTED!!!!! :|

M$ is ELIMINATING NetBEUI in ALL of its OSes beginning with XP.

It is HIGH time that we start TEACHING newbies to networking how to configure and use TCP/IP and quit confusing the hell out of people. NetBEUI is probably the WORST protocol to put on a network. I have been to gaming forums where people are totally lost because somehow they think they can attach to a game server using NetBEUI.

EVERY time you &quot;add a protocol&quot; to your windoze machine, you in essence &quot;create&quot; a new &quot;network&quot;. So with NetBEUI, you have 1 (LAN Manager and M$'s extension of it as a WFW network), add IPX/SPX (Novell) and now you've added another, and so on. EACH one adds more and more overhead to your LAN.

Regarding TCP/IP - The &quot;reserved&quot; or &quot;private&quot; or what some people call &quot;public&quot; IPs are NORMALLY NOT routable. Some idiots on the 'net do route them, but if you READ the RFCs, they are NOT supposed to be passed. And BTW, I have read posts from people indicating that a number of cable/DSL routers assign 10.x.x.x by default - which is why I didn't make any &quot;blanket&quot; statements about default DHCP IP assignments.

If you want to network CORRECTLY, and do it not only between windoze machines, but out on the internet AND for things like games, USE TCP/IP PERIOD and DROP the rest. M$ will enable &quot;NetBIOS over TCP/IP&quot; in order to allow the Peer-to-Peer networking to happen on its own machines WITHOUT the need for NetBEUI.
 
BTW, I do believe Win2K does have file and print sharing on default.

(/me bangs head on desk)

*bang* *bang* *bang* bang* *bang*

*faint*

 
LOL@POOF! Bud, you've got me rollin! ROFLMAO! I get the same way w/the folks at work...I do some limited &quot;Helpless Desk&quot; type work...reloading MS Office, resetting Pwords, that kind of stuff. I get the &quot;where did my Icons go?&quot; question at least twice a week! LOL!

I really appreciate ALL the responses Techwhore and POOF, you guys are the best (Love for everyone else too, though!) I am somewhat familiar with TCP/IP from work. When we get new boxes in, I note the IP on the old box (write it down) and then when setting up the new box, I go into network properties and re-enter the old IP. &quot;Poof&quot; (😉) transparent to the dummy, er...user, yeah, the USER.

I'll prolly just use TCP/IP, since that's what I'm familiar with. I'm so scared of screwing something up in some sub-sub windows menu, then not being able to fix it. My W2K installation is running smoooooooth like buttah..wanna keep it that way.

Some questions:
1. Right now, my router &quot;has&quot; my IP (as far as my ISP is concerned. When I attach the second box to the router, and try to get internet connectivity, is that gonna screw anything up?

2. If yes to #1, should I give both my main pc and the DinkyDell their own IPs?

Last questions! I promise! Have a nice weekend.

MichaelD
 
I think a new moon must be coming up... :Wait... let me check.... AHHHH.... tomorrow is the new moon. Almost as bad as the full moon! heh heh 😛

Some questions:
1. Right now, my router &quot;has&quot; my IP (as far as my ISP is concerned. When I attach the second box to the router, and try to get internet connectivity, is that gonna screw anything up?


No. Just make sure that &quot;NAT&quot; (Network Address Translation) is enabled in your router and your 2 machines have their own unique &quot;reserved&quot; IPs, and you should be good to go (assuming that the machines know that the router is their gateway and they have the IP of your ISP's DNS). My suggestion, if you only had a couple machines, would be for you to statically assign the unique IPs. I even do it with 13 of my 14 machines (my little Mac decided it didn't want to work with the static address - this being my first time with a Mac, and I didn't feel like putzing with that while trying to learn it, so I set it up for DHCP with my 2K AS as the DHCP server). Otherwise, your router can give out addresses to your machines.

2. If yes to #1, should I give both my main pc and the DinkyDell their own IPs?

Well in the case of #1 - if you just attach the 2nd box, you can't really screw it up per se... It just won't go out on the internet, that's all.... 😉

Last questions! I promise! Have a nice weekend.

Nah... ask away if you need to! And have a good weekend too! 😀
 
Thanks POOF! I'll go ahead and assign each box an IP addy. Thanks very much for your time. See ya in the AT Forums!

ps
Expect PM when I screw this up. 😉
 
Back
Top