Home equity is altering spending habits and view of debt

Engineer

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Just as the boys and girls in DC are spending like drunken whores, so seems the American homeowner. With savings rate at esentially zero and borrowing swelling as people mortgage their homes to pay for credit card debt and other non-essential debt, is the US going to collapse on credit? Who knows, but once the housing bubble ruptures (notice: I didn't say pop as I don't think it will be a severe pop like the stock market) and interest rates (mortgage) rises, the easy "cheap" money won't be there.

I think that the money has been driving the economy for the last few years (similar to stock market boom of 90's). It will be interesting to see the results of a housing cooldown indeed.

People have gotten to the point that they "expect" (similar to the 90's stock market) the price to "go up" on their homes. At some point, it will stop...then what?
Equity Is Altering Spending Habits and View of Debt By David Streitfeld Times Staff Writer
Sun Aug 28, 7:55 AM ET



As they happily watch their houses swell in value, Americans are changing their attitudes toward mortgage debt. Increasingly, a home is no longer a nest egg whose equity should never be touched, but a seemingly magical ATM enabling the owner to live it up or just live.


Homeowners took $59 billion in cash out of their houses in the second quarter, double the amount in the 2004 quarter and 16 times the average rate of the mid-1990s, according to data released this month by mortgage giant Freddie Mac.

People are cashing out so quickly that the term "homeowner" may soon be inaccurate. Fifty years ago, Americans owned, on average, three-quarters of their house and the lender owned the rest. These days, it's approaching an even split.

This spend-now-rather-than-save-for-later phenomenon has produced undeniable benefits. Experts attribute much of the nation's economic growth to cash-out refinancings, home equity loans and other methods of tapping rising home values. And additional real estate investments financed by home equity have contributed to the rising home prices that bring owners such pleasure.

But the spending spree has a price. With the savings rate at zero, consumers' eagerness to tap home equity is only worsening their retirement outlook, financial advisors say.

If mortgage rates rise sharply or home prices fall, many homeowners could be in financial turmoil. They may be unable to service their loans, or could even find that their homes are worth less than their mortgages.


Such a prospect seems unimaginably distant to Doug Levy, a university administrator in San Francisco.

When his two-bedroom condominium rose in value by 10% ? which took nine months in the hot Bay Area real estate market ? Levy refinanced. That increased the size of his mortgage but gave him $25,000 to pay bills and take a modest skiing vacation in British Columbia. He's considering tapping his equity again if his condo continues to appreciate.

"It's like I'm sleeping in my piggy bank," said Levy, 44. "In this market, real estate is a liquid asset."

Bill and Barbara Brockmann have a different view of their house. The retired Huntington Beach couple is sitting on half a million dollars of equity, but they're ignoring it. They aren't drawing on it to buy a new car or invest in a condo in Miami.

"I don't like debt," said Bill Brockmann, 79. "I don't buy anything I can't pay for."

Such thriftiness has gone out of fashion. What was once considered undesirable ? taking on large debt ? is now seen as smart. And what used to be smart ? becoming debt-free ? is described as imprudent.

"If you paid your mortgage off, it means you probably did not manage your funds efficiently over the years," said David Lereah, chief economist of the National Association of Realtors and author of "Are You Missing the Real Estate Boom?" "It's as if you had 500,000 dollar bills stuffed in your mattress."

He called it "very unsophisticated."

Anthony Hsieh, chief executive of LendingTree Loans, an Internet-based mortgage company, used a more disparaging term. "If you own your own home free and clear, people will often refer to you as a fool. All that money sitting there, doing nothing."

The financial services industry is doing all it can to avoid letting consumers be foolish. Ditech.com touts home loans as a way to pay off credit cards, and Morgan Stanley says they're a good way to fund education expenses. Wells Fargo suggests taking a chunk out of your house to finance "a dream wedding."

One obvious reason for the 69% rise in mortgage debt over the last five years is the exploding cost of homes, which has far outstripped wage growth. That's led many buyers to interest-only loans and skimpy down payments, both of which minimize their equity.

The proportion of buyers whose down payment was less than 5% of the purchase price rose from 30.6% in 2000 to 38.1% this year, according to a new study by SMR Research Corp.

In California, housing prices have increased so much relative to incomes that buyers must stretch all they can.

Federal guidelines recommend homeowners devote less than $30 of every $100 in pretax income to housing. But 40% of Californians exceed that, according to a new report by the Public Policy Institute of California.

That's higher than in 1990, when the previous real estate boom was cresting after several years in which housing-price rises outpaced salary gains. The figure then was 36%.

Some Californians devote much more than a third of their incomes to housing. The report estimates that about one in seven homeowners in the state are using at least half of their income to pay for their house.

Many of these are first-time home buyers, and many of them are relatively young. The report calculates that the greatest increase in homeownership rates between 2000 and 2003 came in the 30-to-34 age group. Second-highest was 25-to-29.

"I think what's happening is that a lot of younger renters feel the ship is passing them by," said Hans P. Johnson, one of the authors of the report, titled "California's Newest Homeowners: Affording the Unaffordable." "If they don't buy a house now, they think, they never will."

If their incomes expand as they age, these new homeowners may pay down their mortgage debt. On the other hand, they might devote their additional spending power to toys, trips and other fun things, carrying their indebtedness forever.

For Levy, the university administrator, cashing in so quickly made sense. He bought his condo in expensive Marin County, north of San Francisco, for $510,000 in April 2004. The bank offered to finance the whole thing, but he decided to be a little conservative and put 5% down.

By January, the condo was worth $555,000, and Levy refinanced. He took out $25,000 in cash, less than the bank offered to give him. The money paid off what he describes as "really ugly" credit card debt.

The interest rate on the credit card had been more than double the rate on his mortgage, so he saved about $600 a month. Furthermore, his mortgage interest is tax-deductible; his credit card interest was not.

"It used to be that all debt was created equal and all debt was evil," Levy said. "But the tax breaks alone make a pretty compelling case to use home equity to finance just about everything."

He still has law school debts. He's tempted to dip in to his condo again ? especially considering it is now worth about $600,000.

"There is no longer an incentive to paying off your mortgage," said Levy. "The only way I'll ever pay mine off is if I win the lottery."

That's probably the only way he'll ever be able to stop working, too. "I'm never going to be able to retire, because I'll never have enough money in the bank."

The temptation to add debt can be overwhelming. Between 1997 and 2003, the percentage of people who owned their own homes outright, without any mortgage debt, declined from 38.9% to 34.6%, according to Census figures.

"Why can't people stay on diets? Because once you get down to a certain level, you start feeling good, and then you splurge," said Richard Targett, a research analyst with Ernst & Young. "So when your home goes up in value, you take that cruise. You figure, I got money in my house, I didn't earn it, let me spend some."

But he warned that if home prices stopped their rapid ascent ? which might be happening this summer ? Doug Levy won't be the only one who has to have a job for the rest of his life.

"If you're not working, where would you get the two grand you need every month for your mortgage?" Targett said. "We're living longer, retiring younger, and don't want to give up our lifestyles. Something's got to give."

The old way had much less built-in risk.

For the Brockmanns and many others who bought their homes in the two decades after World War II, a mortgage was something that started off big and slowly shrank. Just as retirement loomed, it dwindled to nothing. Making that last payment was a welcome milestone for those who knew they now had to live without a weekly paycheck.

This too is changing. In 1997, the median length of time remaining on an older homeowner's mortgage was a decade, according to Census figures. By 2003, the median was 14 years. During that time, the number of older homeowners who owed more than $300,000 on their home went up tenfold.

New products give homeowners increasing leeway as to how much equity they can tap and how fast they can tap it. Credit cards that allow consumers to draw on their home equity loans are one such device.

CMG Financial Services, a mortgage company in San Ramon, Calif., introduced another tool this summer: a combination checking account and mortgage.

It works like this: Your paycheck is deposited into your account and immediately applied to your mortgage principal. Over the course of the month, as you spend money on food, gas and other necessities, the principal creeps back up. But the result is that your mortgage debt gets paid off more quickly.

That's the theory, at least. Of course, if you're indulgent, you can pay much less of your mortgage ? like none. Any shortfall is added on to the principal.

"This loan gives you a lot of power," said CMG's vice president of marketing, Doug Nesbit. "You can use it, you can abuse it."

In the old days, retirees who were house-rich and cash-poor generally downsized, perhaps moving in with their kids or retiring to the Sunbelt. To help consumers avoid those fates, reverse mortgages have been developed, which allow them to drain the equity from their houses while still living in them.

Irvine-based Financial Freedom Corp. says one of the major reasons people buy its reverse mortgages is "lifestyle enhancement" ? extra money to have fun. Financial Freedom says it is on track this year to nearly double the 5,000 reverse mortgages it sold in 2004 in California.

The Brockmanns have resisted all such newfangled products, as well as the advice of their 55-year-old daughter. "Take out a line of credit and go travel," Sandi Bandfield said she had suggested. "Interest rates are so low, your payments would be next to nothing. You'd be enjoying life."

They already do. The couple's four-bedroom house is about four miles from the ocean, in a section of Huntington Beach just off the Beach Boulevard commercial strip. They bought it in 1964, using their accumulated savings from three previous houses to make a down payment. The purchase price: $26,500.

After 30 years, when the loan was paid off, they got a home equity loan to help their four children buy their own properties. That's it for debt.

"I don't know of any bills we have," said Bill Brockmann, who spent most of his career in the electrical industry. "My pension and Social Security aren't huge, but between them we do nicely. We don't require a whole lot."

As neighbors have come and gone, the couple stayed put. Late last year, the house next door was listed for $595,000, a high-water mark for the neighborhood. Everyone said the sellers were never going to get it, and then they did.

But even this couple has felt the lure of being a landlord. "We had good luck with a rental in Bellflower for five years," Bill Brockmann said. "After that couple moved out, the next was there only two or three months and kind of wrecked the place. I had to keep going back and forth. The upkeep!"

They sold the rental a decade ago. No regrets.

For their eldest daughter, the more houses the better. Bandfield was a medical transcriptionist until recently; her husband Bud, 49, is an independent electrical contractor. They bought their home in Boulder Creek, Calif., near Santa Cruz, for $157,000 in 1989. Substantially remodeled, it's now worth at least four times that.

Last year, the couple began talking about retirement. "We don't want to work forever, and someone's got to pay for this house," Bandfield said. "We have a nice life, but nothing in savings to speak of. I saw us relegated to a dinky gray condo in Las Vegas if we didn't do something."

Stocks? "I dabbled. I think I made $26 last year." Social Security? "It's piddly. Who wants to live like that?"

Real estate seemed the obvious, and only, answer. The couple attended seminars, began to educate themselves. They remortgaged their home to buy a three-bedroom in Visalia, then a two-bedroom cabin near Lake Arrowhead. More recently, they bought two houses in Colorado.

Buying houses to rent them out is a popular strategy. The National Association of Realtors estimates that as many as a quarter of all homes were purchased last year by investors, drawn by the lure of immediate rental income and long-term appreciation.

Bandfield's goal is 10 properties, each yielding $1,000 a month above the mortgage and upkeep. That would nicely fund their retirement. "If we don't do anything," she said, "we're going to have nothing."
 

dullard

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I've been arguing the same thing. The inevitable counter-argument is that the housing market will never cool, burp, rupture, or pop. However, in history with situations like today it has locally cooled, burped, and ruptured. Greenspan himself said that the housing surge cannot be sustained.
"The housing boom will inevitably simmer down," Greenspan said in the prepared remarks. "As part of that process, house turnover will decline from currently historic levels, while home price increases will slow and prices could even decrease."
 

Engineer

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Originally posted by: dullard
I've been arguing the same thing. The inevitable counter-argument is that the housing market will never cool, burp, rupture, or pop. However, in history with situations like today it has locally cooled, burped, and ruptured. Greenspan himself said that the housing surge cannot be sustained.
"The housing boom will inevitably simmer down," Greenspan said in the prepared remarks. "As part of that process, house turnover will decline from currently historic levels, while home price increases will slow and prices could even decrease."

I heard an interesting stat on CNBC a few days ago. Every past housing boom, although most were far from the runup and magnitude of this one, has resulted in home prices deflating or stagnant for at least one decade after they popped. History doesn't always repeat, but if it does, it could be short term painful for those who buy just to profit. It could be long term gain for those seeking homes at a much improved price.

 

sandorski

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Oct 10, 1999
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I gotta say though, after reading how that financing scheme works, I'd be tempted to take the risk. Of course taking that money out against your home just to Finance more debt is rather foolish, but if you took it out to Invest in other things it seems rather possible to greatly enhance your Net Worth. It can't go on forever though, eventually many will be burned and most of those will likely not even have gone to this kind of extent, but merely bought a Home in the first place barely able to afford the insanely low Mortgage rates.
 

dullard

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May 21, 2001
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Originally posted by: sandorski
Of course taking that money out against your home just to Finance more debt is rather foolish, but if you took it out to Invest in other things it seems rather possible to greatly enhance your Net Worth.
With small home equity loans in the 7%-8% interest range, there are few investments that I can think that could guarantee better than 7%-8% returns.
(1) You risk losing your house.
(2) You pay ~7% interest on the loan.
(3) You buy a risky investment hoping to gain more than the 7% just to break even or make a small profit.
It just doesn't sound like the gamble I'd like to take. Most stock experts don't expect stocks to break 6% longterm in the forseeable future. Yes you could pick a wonderful investment and make a killing. But it is far from guaranteed.



 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
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Just read the article earlier, love this bit:

CMG Financial Services, a mortgage company in San Ramon, Calif., introduced another tool this summer: a combination checking account and mortgage.

It works like this: Your paycheck is deposited into your account and immediately applied to your mortgage principal. Over the course of the month, as you spend money on food, gas and other necessities, the principal creeps back up. But the result is that your mortgage debt gets paid off more quickly.

I really hate the idea of dicking around with my mortgage, I'm at 5.875 after refinancing X1 with no equity cash out. Can't help but think the real estate boom/equity cash out boom is freaking insane. But I guess I'm unsophisticated LOL...

<--debit free except my mortgage.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
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Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Just read the article earlier, love this bit:

CMG Financial Services, a mortgage company in San Ramon, Calif., introduced another tool this summer: a combination checking account and mortgage.

It works like this: Your paycheck is deposited into your account and immediately applied to your mortgage principal. Over the course of the month, as you spend money on food, gas and other necessities, the principal creeps back up. But the result is that your mortgage debt gets paid off more quickly.

I really hate the idea of dicking around with my mortgage, I'm at 5.875 after refinancing X1 with no equity cash out. Can't help but think the real estate boom/equity cash out boom is freaking insane. But I guess I'm unsophisticated LOL...

<--debit free except my mortgage.

I just made extra principle payments on my house mortgage when I had extra cash. I paid a 30 year loan off in 13 years.
 

Engineer

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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Just read the article earlier, love this bit:

CMG Financial Services, a mortgage company in San Ramon, Calif., introduced another tool this summer: a combination checking account and mortgage.

It works like this: Your paycheck is deposited into your account and immediately applied to your mortgage principal. Over the course of the month, as you spend money on food, gas and other necessities, the principal creeps back up. But the result is that your mortgage debt gets paid off more quickly.

I really hate the idea of dicking around with my mortgage, I'm at 5.875 after refinancing X1 with no equity cash out. Can't help but think the real estate boom/equity cash out boom is freaking insane. But I guess I'm unsophisticated LOL...

<--debit free except my mortgage.

Seems like a checking account like that, unless somehow capped, could lead one to spend well beyond their means. Example: Get paid $2,000 this month, but spend $2,700. You now have added $700 to your mortgage without thinking about it. Too open to easy debt.

<---- Will be mortgage free mid 2006 and full debt. free within a few months after that! :)

 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
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Just signed up for $1k worth of OT this week:D

<---would pay off more principle but I really need a used cabin cruiser, and to pay cash for it:D
 

imported_Condor

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"Just as the boys and girls in DC are spending like drunken whores, so seems the American homeowner. With savings rate at esentially zero and borrowing swelling as people mortgage their homes to pay for credit card debt and other non-essential debt, is the US going to collapse on credit? Who knows, but once the housing bubble ruptures (notice: I didn't say pop as I don't think it will be a severe pop like the stock market) and interest rates (mortgage) rises, the easy "cheap" money won't be there.

I think that the money has been driving the economy for the last few years (similar to stock market boom of 90's). It will be interesting to see the results of a housing cooldown indeed.

People have gotten to the point that they "expect" (similar to the 90's stock market) the price to "go up" on their homes. At some point, it will stop...then what?"


You just can't figure out why the economy is still working can you? All the stuff about government spending rolling back into the economy is just like water off a very stupid ducks brain, isn't it? Cheap interest and equity is only a small part of the equation, but it serves your purpose, so you ignore everything else. Ignorance is bliss and you must be one happy MF. Why do liberals always seem so bright in other areas, yet so stupid in economics? Remember the 1990's when everyone was borrowing everything they could get to invest in the stock market? This is the same thing, except some of it is going into the housing market. When the housing bubble bursts, it will work sort of like when the stock market bubble collapsed. We will just have a new President for those of small minds to blame it on. Maybe a Democrat. Nightmares (mine) and dreams (yours) do have a way of coming true, don't they?
 

alent1234

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Dec 15, 2002
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do you seriously think people will dump their homes like dot com shares? Where will they live?
 

Engineer

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Originally posted by: Condor
"Just as the boys and girls in DC are spending like drunken whores, so seems the American homeowner. With savings rate at esentially zero and borrowing swelling as people mortgage their homes to pay for credit card debt and other non-essential debt, is the US going to collapse on credit? Who knows, but once the housing bubble ruptures (notice: I didn't say pop as I don't think it will be a severe pop like the stock market) and interest rates (mortgage) rises, the easy "cheap" money won't be there.

I think that the money has been driving the economy for the last few years (similar to stock market boom of 90's). It will be interesting to see the results of a housing cooldown indeed.

People have gotten to the point that they "expect" (similar to the 90's stock market) the price to "go up" on their homes. At some point, it will stop...then what?"


You just can't figure out why the economy is still working can you? All the stuff about government spending rolling back into the economy is just like water off a very stupid ducks brain, isn't it? Cheap interest and equity is only a small part of the equation, but it serves your purpose, so you ignore everything else. Ignorance is bliss and you must be one happy MF. Why do liberals always seem so bright in other areas, yet so stupid in economics? Remember the 1990's when everyone was borrowing everything they could get to invest in the stock market? This is the same thing, except some of it is going into the housing market. When the housing bubble bursts, it will work sort of like when the stock market bubble collapsed. We will just have a new President for those of small minds to blame it on. Maybe a Democrat. Nightmares (mine) and dreams (yours) do have a way of coming true, don't they?

Thanks for the long troll. Is there anything that you don't throw your stupid comments in on in a discussion? I forgot, deficits and debt don't matter to you guys. It does to the rest of us, especially if you pay taxes on it (national debt interest payments).

:cookie: for your smartass remarks!


And if you don't think hundreds of billions of dollars in borrowed money in the form of home equity and mortgages aren't helping to drive the economy forward (7,000,000 jobs since 2001 have been in construction), you're a fool.
 

Engineer

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Originally posted by: alent1234
do you seriously think people will dump their homes like dot com shares? Where will they live?

No, but those investing in them just for the runup (quick sale) will not get that runup and will be left holding a home that may be worthless to them.

Do you seriously think that it's A-OK for millions to live esentially on the edge of bankruptcy as they pile more and more debt on? Especially piling that credit card debt onto their mortgages?
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
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Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: alent1234
do you seriously think people will dump their homes like dot com shares? Where will they live?

That is the answer we are all wondering about.


I can see people upside own on their home notes very easily, just like they are with their cars... Insurance companies should start selling gap insurance for homes:)
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
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Originally posted by: alent1234
do you seriously think people will dump their homes like dot com shares? Where will they live?

Not unless they're forced to by other circumstances.

overxtended by rising prices

Laid off or fired

major sickness or death resulting in loss of income

etc.

Then with rising interest rates, if they have to sell they will have to sell for less. I knew people who just walked away from their houses during the high interest rates of the early 80's.
 

dullard

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Originally posted by: alent1234
do you seriously think people will dump their homes like dot com shares? Where will they live?
In California, that is a very serious and quite probable outcome. With 60+% people having interest only loans, what happens when the principal must suddenly be paid? In 1-2 years, this brick wall that we are flying towards will finally hit. Do the Californian's have enough spare money to suddenly pay this extreme extra expense? Can they refinance with another interest only loan if their house value happens to fall? Or will they be forced to sell?

 

alent1234

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Dec 15, 2002
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if people can't pay for the home is one thing, but i don't forsee millions of people simply sending the keys to the bank just because of paper losses unless they are investors looking for a quick flip. people will have to live somewhere and the credit hit is a big deal.

as far as debt, there is a smart way and a dumb way to pile on debt and it's not the boogie man people make it out to be. If you borrow $100,000 to improve your home or go to school, then it's smart debt. If you borrow for a vacation or some other purchase than it's not so smart. If you borrow a limited amount for everyday spending and you carry a CC balance anyway than it's OK since your interest payments are subsidized by taxes. And as for any debt there is a risk if your income stream dries up.
 

alent1234

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Dec 15, 2002
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Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: alent1234
do you seriously think people will dump their homes like dot com shares? Where will they live?
In California, that is a very serious and quite probable outcome. With 60+% people having interest only loans, what happens when the principal must suddenly be paid? In 1-2 years, this brick wall that we are flying towards will finally hit. Do the Californian's have enough spare money to suddenly pay this extreme extra expense? Can they refinance with another interest only loan if their house value happens to fall? Or will they be forced to sell?

california is it's own category

i think that it's manic depression on a state level. The place is always going through boom and bust cycles and people never learn.

 

desy

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Jan 13, 2000
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IF you have CC debt I'd get the Equity loan or maybe to maximize retirement contributions and flip the refund back against the loan.
I did that 7 yrs ago with 10 G and its worth 22 G today, paid off a 7G loan 'after the 3G tax refund went against the principle' in two years.
But to p1ss it away on a ski vacation or something? I guess I'm unsophisticated too.

Flip this house and Property Ladder have me thinking though.
We generaled our own house 4 yrs ago and with the appreciation of the old house and apreciation of the new house my 75G mortgage has me living in a 175G house.
Once I can get some work outa the kids in a few yrs I think it might be a sound idea for me and the wife. She's an Architechtural tech and I grow up with a Journeyman carpenter dad who had me working from 13 on.
I'll still be young enough and long as I stay away from structural problems there isn't much we can't do.
 

rahvin

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Oct 10, 1999
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The speculators and those on interest only loans are the ones that will get killed if there is a cooling or rupture. I imagine there will be a pop in those states with high speculation and interest only loans.
 

alent1234

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Dec 15, 2002
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i ran some numbers a few weeks ago and it takes like 10% appreciation just for investors to break even
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
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Thats right
Cause your talking after tax income so an investment usually has to do 50% better to make up the difference
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: rahvin
The speculators and those on interest only loans are the ones that will get killed if there is a cooling or rupture. I imagine there will be a pop in those states with high speculation and interest only loans.
Bingo. That's what I've said all along. Those two categories of buyers are the ones who are going to have problems.

As for the first, I feel no sympathy. Speculators are partly to blame for the real estate appreciation boom. As a realtor, I can't say I mind higher prices, thus higher commissions. ;) But as an American it burns me up that they've helped drive home ownership out of the sights of many lower middle income families.