Home Audio System

[tential]

Ever since my extremely bad experience with Logitech I've decided that I'll never buy another Logitech product. Their customer support being utterly horrendous makes it literally impossible for me to trust them. I've had the Z-5500 system which is now broken (the main receiver/POD unit died) and now I've figured out how to replace it with a receiver.

However, finding a receiver isn't as easy as I thought. There are TONS of specifications and things to learn that can drive a newbie coming into this crazy. Basically, I'm looking for something that will provide decent sound quality for my gaming and movie needs. I've learned that the ".2" isn't really always necessary and you could use two subs hooked up with a Y cable, and that you can double wire a speaker to send it more power.

However, I've been confused with how the receiver knows how much power to send out a speaker without blowing it out. The logitech surround speakers I have are 65 watts RMS each (I think at least that's what it says on their website) and most receivers send more power than this. Does this mean my speakers will blow out at higher volumes or what exactly does this mean?

Also, my biggest question has to do with Video Up-scaling. I thought this was important at first but I don't watch DVDs at all. I would only watch movies through my PC and wouldn't my PC do the up-scaling as best as it can? I mean true it may make standard definition tv look better but I rarely watch that and don't care about it too much anyway as I'm hoping that'll phase itself out eventually anyway.

So basically my questions are, if I'm watching movies mostly through my PC hooked up to my TV should I worry about video upscaling?
How much power should I be looking for to get on a receiver?
And what factors can screw up sound quality when it comes to speaker placement and other things? Like, can having my speakers too close together(right now they're closer since I haven't put them up surrounding me, affect them a lot?

I must sound like an idiot when it comes to this considering how in-depth speakers can go but any help would be great.

 

[nsafreak]

I'm going to answer your questions as best as I can but I'm going to start off with this piece of advice. You really, really, really do not want to use the Logitech speakers with any decent HT receiver. It would be all to easy for the HT receiver to accidentally blow them out and in all honesty they are not the best speakers around. I would strongly advise you to instead consider purchasing a decent receiver and a good set of speakers. I've seen many good deals involving Onkyo and Denon receivers paired with speakers like the Energy Take 5.1 Classic speakers that aren't too hard on the budget. Now, on to answer your questions.

1) If you're watching moves mostly through your PC hooked up to your TV, should you worry about video upscaling?

I would have to say no to this. Unless you have an absolutely horrid HTPC it's typically going to do a better job than a receiver can or at the bare minimum be the equal of one.

2) How much power should you be looking for in a receiver?

Well that depends on a number of factors. The speakers you're using (which again I strongly discourage using the Logitechs), the room dimensions and acoustics along with personal preference. We would need to know more to give an accurate assessment.

3) Speaker placement isn't going to affect the sound quality so much as it will the sound imaging. In other words the separation of channels allowing for a good surround sound enviroment where there's a good uninterrupted transition from front to left and back to front and vice versa. Room acoustics can also play into this. Insofar as actual sound quality its more dependent on the source material than anything else.

Hope this information helps you out.

 

[tential]

When you say blow them out you mean blow out all the speakers and sub or just the speakers? How does that work out considering the system can handle 500 watts RMS generally which isn't too bad. I was planning on buying an adapter online that allows me to plug the sub directly into the receiver via RCA input and then each speaker can be plugged in normally through those two wire thingies.

Also, is there anyway I can find a receiver that plays 2 audio sources at once?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

The z-5500 speakers will not have a lot of power handling ability, but if you don't try to go crazy on the system, you should be ok.

Whatever receiver you get, you're going to want to be able to set the crossover frequency high enough that the Logitech satellites are not trying to produce any bass. I don't remember what the crossover frequency is that the z-5500s use when hooked up normally (maybe 120Hz? 150Hz? I dunno). Anyway, the biggest issue with hooking up the Logitech satellite speakers is if you tried to feed them a full range signal or a signal with a crossover set too low.

I did a little testing with my old z-560 sats, and they bottomed out really easily sending any bass to them as expected. If you match the crossover of the Logitech set, then you should be able to turn up the system as loud as you did before without having to worry about it.

For the Logitech sub hookup, I don't remember how that works. Do you have to hook up the sub through the control pod? I thought you did. If the control pod is broken, how are you going to hook up the subwoofer?

Yeah, the ".2" is not something you need. Bi-amping / Bi-wiring is also something you don't need.

Most of the time, a receiver will be sending less than 5 watts to the speakers, and often less than 1 watt. this depends on the sensitivity of the speakers, the room environment, your seating position, how loud you want it to play, source material, etc.

In general, the more dangerous scenario for speakers is having amplification that's too weak to send a clean signal to the speakers. Sending too much clean power is usually not a big deal. If you set the crossover setting correctly, you should be able to use the Logitech satellite speakers just fine. Do keep in mind that these are not designed to be room filling speakers at large volumes. If you're trying to fill a whole room (vs just a portion of a room with speakers surrounding your computer), you will not be able to do it as effectively as with a "real" set of speakers.

You don't need to worry about video upscaling really. Most of the budget receivers will have very poor video upscaling. I'm assuming you're looking at very low budget units. You're probably better off just running sources directly to your TV and just letting the receiver do the audio.

Setting up your speakers in the correct configuration is very important. I see a lot of people who put all 5 speakers in front of them in a row. It's a total waste of time / money to get a surround sound system and set it up like that. You might as well just have a better 2.1 system at that point.

There are some ways of doing pseudo surround without having speakers to the side of you, but it's never going to be as good as actually setting it up correctly.

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/...setup-guide/index.html

What's your budget for this receiver?

As for playing two audio sources at once, what do you mean?
Like having it play sounds from the TV's tuner and the Computer as the same time? Usually that doesn't work. You may be able to get around that a little by running audio sources through the computer's line-in and then just having the computer set as the source.

Alternatively, you could hook up sources to your TV and have its speakers play back one source as the receiver plays another.

 

[tential]

The most expensive system I'm looking at is a 1080p upscaling Yamaha receiver for 430 and the least expensive is one that just does everything I need for audio tha tis refurbished for 190. The reason I ask about the upscaling is that a PC should be able to do it considering I have great graphics cards and if so there is no point spending extra money on a unit that does upscaling when my PC will do it anyway. Like this person said "I would have to say no to this. Unless you have an absolutely horrid HTPC it's typically going to do a better job than a receiver can or at the bare minimum be the equal of one.". If that's the case then I can spend a lot less like closer to the 190 and get a 7.1 receiver that will get the job done. Eventually I plan on trying to get 2 of these http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16882290018 and then just use the Logitech speakers for the rear ones.

There are adapter cords on Ebay that allow you to use your subwoofer and speakers without a control POD. The control pod is the receiver (or at least I think it is) so rather than use that I plan on getting an adapter cord that allows me to use to plug it into a receiver.
http://baileyhomeserver.homeft...er/1980SubRCAdb-15.jpg

That's a picture of the RCA cord that allows you to use the subwoofer with a receiver and then I would just plug the speakers directly into the receiver like normal. The cords are custom made but considering the rating of the sellers and how many they have sold I think it's worth a shot. I'm getting a brand new Z-5500 system from Logitech eventually anyway so I don't mind trying this out. I just never want to deal with Logitech ever again considering how god damn horrendous their customer support is but why throw away what I have when I can use it and upgrade out of it eventually?

As for the two audio sources I meant like kind of how a computer can play your itunes and your game at the same time I was wondering if there is any device that would let you mix two audio sources at the same time. It'd be nice to play my music from my PC yet still have my 360 sounds going but this honestly is just an after thought and I really don't care too much about it.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I have to ask now... Logitech is sending you a brand new z-5500 set and you're complaining about customer service? I've used Logitech's support on a number of occasions and they've been very responsive and helpful in the past. I've dealt with several companies that wouldn't take steps that gave you a final result of a brand new system along with a mostly intact original system that you get to keep.

For the receiver, I wouldn't spend twice as much just to get better video processing. An exception might be if you have other SD sources and if your TV has really bad video processing for SD sources. If the computer is all you're hooking up and it's doing a good job directly hooked up to the TV now, then I wouldn't spend another couple hundred dollars trying to improve things further.

I think it's much more likely that the auto-calibration offerings from several of the receiver manufacturers would be a more worthwhile reason to get a midrange rather than entry level unit.
I've posted this in several threads already, but my testing with Audyssey has shown me how big of an improvement you can get with inexpensive speakers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmmDenKL4U0

If you're trying to choose between a $200 receiver and a $400 receiver, a good auto calibration implementation like Audyssey is something that I actually think would make a big difference. I think this would be a much more worthwhile feature than getting one that upscales and hoping that its upscaling is better than that of your computer or the TV itself.

Do you have a link to the ebay auction where that z-5500 sub adapter is from?

 

[tential]

I'm complaining since I can't use the ones I have and it's taken almost a month to go through this process and I'm still at step one. They refuse to send me an RMA number so I can't even send back the Control Pod in order to get the new system. It was only after over 10 calls and losing all my minutes for a month that I finally just got a manager on the phone and refuse to talk to them without management being on the phone. But enough about that I'm just hoping it takes under 2 months.

Ya so about these units with auto-calibration. How do I know which units have that and can you recommend some units with that? If you say it makes a big difference I'll definitelly want to take a look at it. If you can link me to a refurbished one that's even better.
http://cgi.ebay.com/LOGITECH-Z..._0?hash=item1c0d620968
That's one of his units and http://cgi.ebay.com/LOGITECH-Z..._0?hash=item1c0d644a3c is another. He has all types though you just have to email and ask or ask for better pictures. That's what I been doing to people who are making them.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Onkyo, Marantz, and Denon all use Audyssey, which is the auto correction product that I tried. They have several flavors of it and I had one of the high end ones, but I assume that the low end Audyssey versions will come close in performance.

Accessories4less has a refurb HT-RC160 for $300
http://www.accessories4less.co...r-Like-Tx-sr607/1.html
607 for $330
http://www.accessories4less.co...heater-Receiver/1.html

Marantz 5003 has MultEQ from Audyssey for $450
http://www.accessories4less.co...r-Free-Shipping/1.html

Since you're planning on getting better speakers eventually, I think it makes a reasonable amount of sense to get a decent receiver like one of these vs. a very cheap one.
When you do start to change out the speakers, I'd recommend switching out the front three vs. just the front two.

 

[tential]

Well I'd eventually get the center channel one too but I'd be spending 200-300 at a time so I wouldn't be able to do the front 3 all at once.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: tential
Well I'd eventually get the center channel one too but I'd be spending 200-300 at a time so I wouldn't be able to do the front 3 all at once.

Good. I just wanted to make sure you had plans to get all of the front speakers in good shape eventually.

 

[tential]

Oh ya I know the center channel is extremely important especially for movies but I just wanted the set of side speakers first for my music and stuff. Funny that you recommended those 7.2 systems I was looking at. I was told I don't need 7.2 because I can just use a splitter but if those are the only systems that have the stuff I need it makes hooking up these subs easier.

 

[allthatisman]

Not to thread-jack, but I am I have a similar situation:

I currently have Klipsch ProMedia 4.1's which sound awesome for games/music... but in the movie department, they fall short when it comes to voices and converstions because there is no center channel. I also ordered a PS3 slim which will be hooked up to the TV I am using as a monitor in my sig. I would like to be able to have "stereo sound" for both my PC and my PS3. Obviously this cannot be accomplished with the Klipsch's. So my question is: what should I upgrade to and why? I don't want to spend a ton of money, and I am not an audiophile... plus I am in a condo, so I can't get too loud due to the neighbors. I just want it to sound good/clean. Can I reuse the rear Kilpsch speakers? they are already mounted, and I would hate to have to buy another set of mounts(I know it sounds stupid, but I am trying to be cheap)... what reciever would you go with/speakers etc?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: allthatisman
I would like to be able to have "stereo sound" for both my PC and my PS3.

Do you mean surround sound?

Originally posted by: allthatisman
I don't want to spend a ton of money, and I am not an audiophile... plus I am in a condo, so I can't get too loud due to the neighbors. I just want it to sound good/clean. Can I reuse the rear Kilpsch speakers? they are already mounted, and I would hate to have to buy another set of mounts(I know it sounds stupid, but I am trying to be cheap)... what reciever would you go with/speakers etc?

Any system you get will have a volume knob on it. Don't want it too loud? Then don't turn it up. Getting a more capable system will allow you to turn it up more while still sounding good, but there isn't anything inherent in a sound system that will make you turn it up more.

You can annoy your neighbors with a $30 set of computer speakers if you wanted to. It's up to you to keep volume reasonable at reasonable times.

You should be able to use the existing 4 Klipsch speakers as surrounds / rears. I believe the Klipsch speakers are 4-ohm, but that shouldn't be a big deal for surround / rear speakers that typically aren't used much anyway.

One of the easiest and most cost effective ways to get everything going is to just buy a HTIB from a decent company. Something like an Onkyo set (with powered sub) will give reasonable performance for a low price.

What's your budget for this?

 

[allthatisman]

Well, by stereo, I mean't surround, i.e. not the TV's speakers. And by not too loud, I mean't that it doesn't have to be hi-fi, or highest fidelity(Boogie nights for those in the know )... i.e. it can be cheap.

These are the actual specs of what I have now if that helps:

http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/p...-2-400-specifications/

I was hoping to do this for under $300... I don't even know if you can get a reciever with 2 hdmi ports for that...