HOLY MOLEY - Teenager killed in the West Bank - watch out for the BIG FONT!

[Sclamoz]

Israel has suffered dozens of 9/11 proportional to population.

USA's population is 40x the size of Israel.

9/11 was one suicide bombing.

In that same year, Israel experienced over 41 suicide bombings. In 2002 Israel there were over 45 suicide bombings.

This is the greatest level of terror any democratic nation has experienced in modern history...with the exception of India.

Take, for example, the pizza bombing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sbarro_restaurant_suicide_bombing

that's 600 Americans killed, 520 wounded.

Disco bombing:

840 Americans killed, 4,000 wounded.

Between 2002-2004 over 580 Israelis were killed in suicide bombings, the vast majority between the months of February-november 2002.

That's 23,200 Americans killed, 320,000 wounded (8,000 israeli civilians were wounded in the 2nd intifada).

Overall, Israel's casualties between 2000-2005 were 1,100 killed and 9,000 wounded.

That's 40,000 Americans dead.

Also note that by 2004 Israel had foiled more than 1,000+ suicide bombing plots.

So you're saying that 40 Americans are worth the life of one Israeli? That the 15 people killed in the Sbarro bombing are equal to 600 Americans? Go fuck yourself.

Like I thought more civilians have been killed in the US even though we are half way around the world. Yet AQ isn't a threat to us?

As far as your continued hypocritical and double standard towards our military performance and israel - there is nothing different between the taliban and al-qaeda.

Other than that Hamas/Hezbollah are 1000x more powerful. Have far better weapons and are far more organized.

We literally are Nazis compared to the Israelis. How can you, as an American, actually attack Israel on moral grounds while at the same time supporting our policies in Iraq and Afghanistan?!!!

My hypocritical attitude towards Israel's military performance? You mean like how I don't have a problem with either and you accept everything Israel does but call the US military Nazis?

I haven't attacked Israel's military on moral grounds. I have no problem with Israels military and have stated that repeatedly, it is you who argues morality and making up shit that you can backup about the US and our military. What is wrong with your brain?

Saying there is nothing different between the taliban and AQ and that HZ and Hamas are 1000x more powerful is so fucking stupid. How do you even come up with this nonsense?

Again the silence is deafening from the right wingers here. The US has just been labeled as Nazis and I don't hear a peep. SamurAchzar? CKent? Yeah I didn't think so.

Look at our man-hunts ordered by Obama. Over 900 killed in predator airstrikes. Britain killed 7,000 between 2006-2007. Over 8,000 were killed in a period of 2 months in Operation Crescent Wind.

And we aren't killing Osama Bin Laden, we're killing Taliban druglords.

The Taliban is a ruthless movement but poses no threat to Americans. It's philosophy is nearly identical to our ally Saudi Arabia.

YOU JUST SAID AQ AND THE TALIBAN ARE THE SAME. Killing them by the thousands is a success. They use drugs to fund their terrorist operations so it doesn't matter how you label them. Or are you going to say AQ/Taliban aren't an Islamic Terrorist organization? They haven't carried out numerous attacks against the US on our homeland and across the world?

Again, you call everyone the US kills in war "people" and make no distinction in your numbers between civilians and enemies. Why don't you do the same in regards to Israel and the 4,000+ "people" killed by Israels carpet bombing and the cluster bombs dropped on Lebonan's cities in 2006? 1/3 of these victims were children.

Between the end of the war and 2008 40 more innocent men women and children were killed and 270 injured by unexploded cluster munitions and mines planted by the Nazis in the IDF.

This is an easy game to play.

American soldiers aren't held to the same standard. Sure we can borrow some of their tactics, use their weapons, hell even physically collaborate...but never, ever will the Left see us as inferior.

We are not Zionists. We are not Jews.

So therefore we are inferior in your mind. Its pretty messed up that you think we SHOULD be inferior.

Its funny, now you are trying to say the left are overly pro-US and patriotic? I always thought the left hated the US? Which is it?

We have many examples of Israeli settlers violently attacking Palestinians, if the Palestinians opened fire in self defense and killed the settlers you are OK with that?

How about if these were Israelis throwing rocks at Israeli cars and were shot to death. Still justifiable?

If the IDF and police actually bother to investigate and arrest the shooter what will you say?

Still waiting for you to provide evidence for the doctor who was shot, how all Israeli cars are bullet-proof, a comparison of Israeli and US ROE and civilian/combatant death ratios.

While you can claim Israel is discriminatory towards the Arabs, it's not any worse than in other places with such intermixed ethnic groups, and besides, it's a two way street - the Arabs don't serve in the IDF (while the Israeli establishment turns a blind eye), evade taxes and basically have their own autonomy. Would they have it any other way just to be more accepted by the Jews? I'm not so sure. It's a convenient status quo for them.

That wasn't my claim it was the claim of the Israeli government panel. If you have a problem with it I suggest you take it up with them.

 

[Noobtastic]

So you're saying that 40 Americans are worth the life of one Israeli? That the 15 people killed in the Sbarro bombing are equal to 600 Americans? Go fuck yourself.

LOL!

Do you not understand rations and proportions?

Geez no wonder how educational system is so fucked.

My hypocritical attitude towards Israel's military performance? You mean like how I don't have a problem with either and you accept everything Israel does but call the US military Nazis?

Yes, your hypocritical attitude. Extolling USA and condemning Israel on moral authority...ignorant to the fact that the USA is (WAIT FOR THE ANALOGY!) Nazi Germany in comparison to Israel's war policies?

Get it?

I'm not calling US Nazis. No, that would be a smear. I'm saying, in comparison (math, ready for it), USA are Nazis compared to Israelis.

Look at the massive combatant/civilian ratio. The rapes, the massacres. Pillaging, murders. civilian rights are limited, etc...

dont take it personal.

I haven't attacked Israel's military on moral grounds. I have no problem with Israels military and have stated that repeatedly, it is you who argues morality and making up shit that you can backup about the US and our military. What is wrong with your brain?

wrong. You slandered Israel's military.

Saying there is nothing different between the taliban and AQ and that HZ and Hamas are 1000x more powerful is so fucking stupid. How do you even come up with this nonsense?

I was very explicit.

Hamas and Hezbollah are bigger, stronger, and faster than the Taliban/Al-Qaeda, and they pose far greater of a threat to Israel than T/A do to America simply based on a proximity basis.

In Israel, everyone home in the north has to have 3-inches of re-enforced concrete on their walls and windows. israel has surrounded itself with an anti-suicide bombing wall after 300+ suicide attacks.

every 6 months they have universal drills involving millions of citizens in preparation for chemical warfare, nuclear weapons attacks..etc..

im not minimizing the ruthless and threat of al-qaeda, but compared to israel's enemies we aren't in nearly as much danger. Get it?

Again the silence is deafening from the right wingers here. The US has just been labeled as Nazis and I don't hear a peep. SamurAchzar? CKent? Yeah I didn't think so.

Oh get over it. I never said the US was Nazis.

YOU JUST SAID AQ AND THE TALIBAN ARE THE SAME. Killing them by the thousands is a success. They use drugs to fund their terrorist operations so it doesn't matter how you label them. Or are you going to say AQ/Taliban aren't an Islamic Terrorist organization? They haven't carried out numerous attacks against the US on our homeland and across the world?

Right, number are numbers. It's easy when the media is embeded in the military, pimping everything we do.

No videos or pictures describing the utter devestation we leave. No independent verification of casualties. Of course our military spokesperson says majority of kills are combatant. We know this is utter bullshit because the military is an unreliable source. Just like Obama's predator drone program claimed only 5% of all kills were civilian, when the number was closer to 70%.

Again, you call everyone the US kills in war "people" and make no distinction in your numbers between civilians and enemies. Why don't you do the same in regards to Israel and the 4,000+ "people" killed by Israels carpet bombing and the cluster bombs dropped on Lebonan's cities in 2006? 1/3 of these victims were children.

1/3 of the victims were children? what?

1 year later our military began a similar operation in iraq:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Phantom_Thunder

we killed 2,000 people.

whereas hezbollah was physically attacking israel. america has never faced such an attack on the mainland since pearl harbor.

how should israel respond to such an act of war? Should israel not look towards its critics for advice?

Between the end of the war and 2008 40 more innocent men women and children were killed and 270 injured by unexploded cluster munitions and mines planted by the Nazis in the IDF.

And over 300 vietnamese are killed every year because of mines we left 4 decades ago.

hezbollah was the aggressor and they got burned.

next time israel won't differentiate between lebanon and hezbollah. israel will treat lebanon as an enemy, just as USA treated the iraqi state as an enemy when it bombed the shit out of it.

Its funny, now you are trying to say the left are overly pro-US and patriotic? I always thought the left hated the US? Which is it?

the left hates israel more than the US. after all, they are citizens of the USA. how can you place yourself as a moral superior to the zionists if your own government is inferior to israel's?

We have many examples of Israeli settlers violently attacking Palestinians, if the Palestinians opened fire in self defense and killed the settlers you are OK with that?

how many examples? tell me, how many palestinians have been killed by "settlers" in non-self defense?

about 50, since 1989.

hardly a blood bath.

palestinians, on the other hand, routinely attack and assault jewish residents, which is why israel was forced to build special roads for israelis to avoid heavy-arab neighborhoods.

israel settlements have massive gates, bomb shelters, private security.

why? to kill palestinians?

no, to defend themselves. palestinians don't defend themselves from israelis any less than iraqis or afghanis defend themselves from USA.

How about if these were Israelis throwing rocks at Israeli cars and were shot to death. Still justifiable?

if israelis had a history of attack palestinians driving to work and gunning them down, then yeah.

the point is israelis r abused on a routine basis. many weeks ago a women last half her brain after a palestinian lobbed a huge rock through her window.

this is real violence. shit happens. you can't think in retrospect. it's like standing in front of a machine gun, baiting it, and then getting shot.

oh no im innocent.

throw a wrench at a police officer in LA and ur dead.

If the IDF and police actually bother to investigate and arrest the shooter what will you say?

IDF has the most advanced judicial component of any modern army.

palestinians file claims on a routine basis with the civil authority. judgements are handed down all the time. if an israeli loses their weapons they can go to jail for 6 months.

israel is releasing thousands of certified murderers for dead bodies of israeils.

you think USA would release 1,000 out of the hundreds of thousands of combatants we hold without charge in exchange for a captured US soldier?

hell fucking no.

 

[Lemon law]

OK, lets make the other point, Israel may have some 5 million Jews, and 2 million Arabs with citizenship rights. Meanwhile it administers some 3.5 million Palestinians with no citizenship rights or love of Israel. Meanwhile, because Israel does not fully trust its Arabs, they are exempt from compulsory military service the 5 million Jews are subject to.

And since, out of those 5 million Jews, only a fraction of them are of military service age, and some of them of age are so ill educated that they are almost worthless.

And then given the fact that Israel is surrounded by hundreds of millions of Arabs, means Israel is super population delimited in terms of the size of an army they can field, and even more delimited in being able to go to temporary full mobilization to deter a coming threat.

Yet if Israel would really assimilate all its Palestinians and Arabs, and buy their allegiance by fair treatment, the size of the army Israel could field would at least double.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Yet if Israel would really assimilate all its Palestinians and Arabs, and buy their allegiance by fair treatment, the size of the army Israel could field would at least double.

Who said Arabs want to be assimilated in Israel? Your colonialist approach is really evident here, that Israel should play the enlightened adult and take care of the natives because they're unable to control their actions. Even worse than that, your stance morally justifies Arab countries attacking Israel over its issues with the Palestinians.

 

[Sclamoz]

LOL!

Do you not understand rations and proportions?

Geez no wonder how educational system is so fucked.

I do understand ratios. I understand that you are trying to claim a ratio of 40 American lives equal the life of 1 Israeli. THAT is whats fucked here. That and your sick mind.

Yes, your hypocritical attitude. Extolling USA and condemning Israel on moral authority...ignorant to the fact that the USA is (WAIT FOR THE ANALOGY!) Nazi Germany in comparison to Israel's war policies?

Get it?

I'm not calling US Nazis. No, that would be a smear. I'm saying, in comparison (math, ready for it), USA are Nazis compared to Israelis.

I'm waiting for you to provide this massive civilian death ration that the US has inflicted compared to Israel. Any day now.

I know you are saying the US are Nazis compared to Israel, but Israel exists. That means you think the US are modern day Nazis. Get it?

Look at the massive combatant/civilian ratio. The rapes, the massacres. Pillaging, murders. civilian rights are limited, etc...

wrong. You slandered Israel's military.

Irony anyone? I have said repeatedly I have NO PROBLEM WITH ISRAELS MILITARY (just to point out for the billionth time the IDF isn't even a factor in this incident).I don't know why you can't grasp that fact and need to keep trying to say I have. The IDF are a top notch professional military. While you try to paint the US Military as rapists and murderers and Nazis.

As far as rapes massacres, murders, limiting civilian rights and so on... The same accusations could easily leveled at the IDF, so that makes them Nazis too I guess?

I was very explicit.

Hamas and Hezbollah are bigger, stronger, and faster than the Taliban/Al-Qaeda, and they pose far greater of a threat to Israel than T/A do to America simply based on a proximity basis.

Yeah I know what you said, I want to know how you came up these claims that they are stronger faster and bigger and 1000x more powerful. Or are these claims just more BS you made up with nothing to back them up?

im not minimizing the ruthless and threat of al-qaeda, but compared to israel's enemies we aren't in nearly as much danger. Get it?

According to you:

"USA is fighting a war thousands of miles away against an enemy that poses no threat to American citizens"

Gee, it kind of sounds like you did minimize the threat from al-qaeda repeatedly!

Right, number are numbers. It's easy when the media is embeded in the military, pimping everything we do.

No videos or pictures describing the utter devestation we leave. No independent verification of casualties. Of course our military spokesperson says majority of kills are combatant. We know this is utter bullshit because the military is an unreliable source. Just like Obama's predator drone program claimed only 5% of all kills were civilian, when the number was closer to 70%.

1/3 of the victims were children? what?

The press work in Iraq and Afghanistan just like they do in Israel. The IDF make up favorable numbers just like every other military, get over it son.

http://www.unicef.org/emerg/index_35274.html

Most of these casualties are civilians; an estimated 30 per cent are children.

That's just children under 13 FYI. We can only imagine how high it is for under 18.

1 year later our military began a similar operation in iraq:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Phantom_Thunder

we killed 2,000 people.

whereas hezbollah was physically attacking israel. america has never faced such an attack on the mainland since pearl harbor.

how should israel respond to such an act of war? Should israel not look towards its critics for advice?

WAIT wait wait... The US and Israel are carrying out similar acts, One were the US military kills less people in a larger operation over a larger period of time in a more populated area involving more troops but are Nazis and the Israelis are angels huh? Something doesn't seem to make sense here.

"whereas hezbollah was physically attacking israel. america has never faced such an attack on the mainland since pearl harbor."
Gee I dunno I would say 9/11 might qualify there no? What pearl harbor size attacks has Hezbollah ever carried out? Hell, what attacks has Hezbollah carried out against Israel that did as much damage as the US Marine Barracks bombings in 83? Unless of course we use your 40/1 ratio. If we do then if Hezbollah manages to sink an Israeli tug its worse than anything that's every happened to the US ever.

And over 300 vietnamese are killed every year because of mines we left 4 decades ago.

hezbollah was the aggressor and they got burned.

next time israel won't differentiate between lebanon and hezbollah. israel will treat lebanon as an enemy, just as USA treated the iraqi state as an enemy when it bombed the shit out of it.

That was the whole point of the exercise, Israel treated southern Lebanon no different than the US treated Iraq. You did bomb the shit out of it. and have the death toll to back it up. But you want to pretend Israel would never do something like the US does so you need to spin spin spin and talk shit about the US. Your precious IDF is no better than the brave men and women you try and paint as Nazis in the US military.

the left hates israel more than the US. after all, they are citizens of the USA. how can you place yourself as a moral superior to the zionists if your own government is inferior to israel's?

Well gee aren't the middle and right citizens of the USA as well? Do you think they think better of Israel than of their own country? Why are you singling out the left when no sane American will feel this way?

My government is pretty much nothing but Zionists so your point doesn't actually make sense.

how many examples? tell me, how many palestinians have been killed by "settlers" in non-self defense?

about 50, since 1989.

hardly a blood bath.

Violence doesn't require a killing, like in this case with the rock thrower right? Even though he didn't kill anyone he was a clean kill. I posted a whoooole bunch of videos of Israelis who must be homicidal as well as they are acting in a similar way.

It was a simple question, do Palestinians have the same rights of self defense from violent Israelis as Israelis have from Palestinians?

if israelis had a history of attack palestinians driving to work and gunning them down, then yeah.

the point is israelis r abused on a routine basis. many weeks ago a women last half her brain after a palestinian lobbed a huge rock through her window.

this is real violence. shit happens. you can't think in retrospect. it's like standing in front of a machine gun, baiting it, and then getting shot.

oh no im innocent.

throw a wrench at a police officer in LA and ur dead.

20 year-old resident of 'Ein Siniya, Ramallah and al-Bira district, killed on 09.05.2008 next to 'Ein Siniya, Ramallah and al-Bira district, by gunfire. Additional information: Killed when with friends hunting birds in the wadi between the villages 'Ein Yabrud, Dura al-Qra, and 'Ein Sinia.

Khalil Muhammad Ra'uf Saleh Wleiwel
40 year-old resident of Qalqiliya, killed on 17.08.2005 next to Shilo, Ramallah and al-Bira district, by gunfire. Additional information: Killed in a shooting attack in the factory where he worked.

Osamah Mussa Ahmad 'Odeh Tawafshah
33 year-old resident of Sinjil, Ramallah and al-Bira district, killed on 17.08.2005 next to Shilo, Ramallah and al-Bira district, by gunfire. Additional information: Killed in a shooting attack in the factory where he worked.

Ahmad 'Ali Hassan Mansur
52 year-old resident of Kafr Qalil, Nablus district, killed on 17.08.2005 next to Shilo, Ramallah and al-Bira district, by gunfire. Additional information: Killed in a shooting attack in the factory where he worked.

Ahmad 'Ali Hassan Mansur
52 year-old resident of Kafr Qalil, Nablus district, killed on 17.08.2005 next to Shilo, Ramallah and al-Bira district, by gunfire. Additional information: Killed in a shooting attack in the factory where he worked.

Rayiq Ma'sud Dagharmeh
35 year-old resident of Tayasir, Tubas district, killed on 30.04.2003 next to Peza'el, Jericho district, by gunfire. Additional information: Killed by the settlement security officer after he went into a field to relieve himself.

Hani Bani Maniya
22 year-old resident of 'Aqraba, Nablus district, killed on 06.10.2002 in 'Aqraba, Nablus district, by gunfire. Additional information: Shot and killed by settlers while harvesting his olives.

Nivin Jamjum
14 year-old resident of Hebron, killed on 28.07.2002 in Hebron, by gunfire. Additional information: Killed by gunfire when settlers rioted in Hebron.

Nivin Jamjum
14 year-old resident of Hebron, killed on 28.07.2002 in Hebron, by gunfire. Additional information: Killed by gunfire when settlers rioted in Hebron.

'Ata 'Abd al-Hai
20 year-old, killed on 01.04.2002 next to Kochav Hashahar, Ramallah and al-Bira district, by gunfire. Additional information: Killed by gunfire from an ambush while riding in a truck near the settlement.

Kheyder Jadu'a 'Abd al-Jabber Kan'an
27 year-old resident of Hizma, al-Quds district, killed on 29.08.2001 next to 'Anata, al-Quds district, by gunfire. Additional information: Killed while riding in his car.

Muhammad Salameh a-Tameizi
23 year-old resident of Idhna, Hebron district, killed on 19.07.2001 next to Idhna, Hebron district, by gunfire. Additional information: Killed in an attack by settlers while he was driving in his car.

Muhammad Helmi a-Tameizi
23 year-old resident of Idhna, Hebron district, killed on 19.07.2001 next to Idhna, Hebron district, by gunfire. Additional information: Killed in an attack by settlers while he was driving in his car.

Diaa' Marwan a-Tameizi
Under 1 year-old resident of Idhna, Hebron district, killed on 19.07.2001 next to Idhna, Hebron district, by gunfire. Additional information: Killed in a shooting attack by settlers when she was riding in her father's car.

'Awani 'Ali Hadad
46 year-old resident of Hebron, killed on 13.06.2001 next to Hizma, al-Quds district, by gunfire. Additional information: Killed by Israelis who shot him while he was driving his truck with his family inside.

Mustafa Mahmoud Mussa 'Alian
47 year-old resident of 'Askar Refugee Camp, Nablus district, killed on 14.11.2000 in Kfar Malik, Ramallah and al-Bira district, by stone throwing. Additional information: Killed as a result of being hit in the chest by a rock when settlers threw stones at a car he was riding in.

Farid Mussa 'Issa Nesasreh
28 year-old resident of Beit Furik, Nablus district, killed on 17.10.2000 in Beit Furik, Nablus district, by gunfire. Additional information: Killed by a settler from Itamar while harvesting olives near the settlement.

Fahed Mustafa 'Odeh Bakker
21 year-old resident of Bidya, Salfit district, killed on 07.10.2000 in Bidya, Salfit district, by gunfire. Additional information: Killed by settlers who rioted in Biddya village.

What is the # of attacks required before it becomes a history? You use the LA police as a justification but according to you we are Nazis so that's not very good is it?

Again, simple question if this was an Israeli kid throwing rocks at an Israeli settler should be shot yes or no?

IDF has the most advanced judicial component of any modern army.

Palestinians file claims on a routine basis with the civil authority. judgments are handed down all the time. if an israeli loses their weapons they can go to jail for 6 months.

Israel is releasing thousands of certified murderers for dead bodies of Israelis.

you think USA would release 1,000 out of the hundreds of thousands of combatants we hold without charge in exchange for a captured US soldier?

hell fucking no.

We've released far more than 1,000 combatants in Iraq for nothing in return. Again, you haven't actually bothered to answer the question. If it gets investigated and an Israeli settler gets arrested what will you say?

Still waiting for you to provide evidence for the doctor who was shot, how all Israeli cars are bullet-proof, a comparison of Israeli and US ROE and civilian/combatant death ratios.

 

[ScottFern]

What an immature and childish nation.

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0516/chomsky-denied-entry-israel/

Israel systematically denies people entry that it sees as critical to its way of "governing". Way to take criticism. Maybe they can't look themselves in the mirror.

 

[Noobtastic]

I do understand ratios. I understand that you are trying to claim a ratio of 40 American lives equal the life of 1 Israeli. THAT is whats fucked here. That and your sick mind.

Are you retarded?

America has a population of 300,000,000. Israel has a population of 7,500,000.

Comparing violence must be based on proportion.

Get it?

You have a sick mind by somehow claiming Israel hasn't suffered enough, or suffered less than the USA (not even close to being true).

I'm waiting for you to provide this massive civilian death ration that the US has inflicted compared to Israel. Any day now.

I know you are saying the US are Nazis compared to Israel, but Israel exists. That means you think the US are modern day Nazis. Get it?

It seems I am the only one who has provided sources to be back up my argument. Unfortunately mainstream media doesn't spend a lot of time questioning the stats released by our military. Very rarely do we here anything remotely critical about Iraq or Afghanistan since Obama took office, even though violence has accelerated exponentially.

As far as casualties go, they can be summed up as follows:

The one month invasion of Iraq killed:

20,000-40,000 Iraqis

Out of those 20k-40k, 7,000 of them were civilian.

The problem with the USA is that it totally barred any independent media from accessing the conflict. MI6 infiltrated BBC, most of the major networks were during human interest stories as soldiers and pimping the war machine.

Even a year later, we really don't know how many civilians died.

But, at a minumum - 20% of killed were civilian.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Israel-Arab conflict

Of the last 25 years, approximately 11,000 people have been killed in the conflict. Between the 1st-2nd intifada, 2nd Lebanon War, and Gaza War - Israel is responsible for the deaths of 8,500 KIAS.

Of those:

89% were combat-age males

93% were males

so says the United Nations (very biased against Israel):

http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/BE07C80CDA4579468525734800500272

UN turns the other way and refuses to explain the qualifications for Palestinian civilians, but its very murky and the tactics used by the PLO (inflating casualties via human shields) make it hard to give a true estimate.

But remember - we're comparing 1 month to 25 years of conflict.

In a matter of days our military killed more people than Israel had in its entire existence.

Irony anyone? I have said repeatedly I have NO PROBLEM WITH ISRAELS MILITARY (just to point out for the billionth time the IDF isn't even a factor in this incident).I don't know why you can't grasp that fact and need to keep trying to say I have. The IDF are a top notch professional military. While you try to paint the US Military as rapists and murderers and Nazis.

As far as rapes massacres, murders, limiting civilian rights and so on... The same accusations could easily leveled at the IDF, so that makes them Nazis too I guess?

No gang rapes, massacres, pillaging, or anything of the sort has been committed by the IDF.

If that were the case, there would be movies and UN resolutions describing the victims.

Just 2 days a good another Iraqi doctor was shot dead by US soldiers.

He wasn't even throwing rocks.

No outrage?

Yeah I know what you said, I want to know how you came up these claims that they are stronger faster and bigger and 1000x more powerful. Or are these claims just more BS you made up with nothing to back them up?

It seems you deny the undeniable. Hamas and Hezbollah are larger, bigger, faster, stronger, more weapons, etc.

Al-Qaeda and the Taliban do not have scud missiles, nor are they bordering any Western nation preparing for a physical war.

Get it?

According to you:

"USA is fighting a war thousands of miles away against an enemy that poses no threat to American citizens"

Gee, it kind of sounds like you did minimize the threat from al-qaeda repeatedly!

I am putting the threat in perspective. Al-Qaeda is merely a lightening rod for imperialism. Rather bizarre we supposed invaded Afghanistan because of 9/11 (even though the war was planned 3 weeks before 9/11) to find Osama Bin Laden. We didn't find him because he was actually hiding in Pakistan, so instead of invading Pakistan we give Pakistan more money to fight the Taliban...who had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 or al-qaeda.

Al-Qaeda has such an irrelevant presence in Afghanistan it's not even funny. Since the invasion there is more al-qaeda in Iraq than before.

LOL! It's just endless killings. You can't stop it. How can you support it?

The press work in Iraq and Afghanistan just like they do in Israel. The IDF make up favorable numbers just like every other military, get over it son.

http://www.unicef.org/emerg/index_35274.html



That's just children under 13 FYI. We can only imagine how high it is for under 18.

UN defines children as anyone under the age of 18.

Once reviewing the actual casualty stats, you'll find that a majority of kills are combat-age males - and all kills occuring heavily-shia areas, virtually all run by Hezbollah.

Plus, the media basically courted hezbollah in showcasing the aftermath....disgusting:

http://newsbusters.org/node/6574

can you IMAGINE if our journalists were walking lock-step with Al-Qaeda or the Taliban, filming staged scenes of violence, fudging numbers, accepting anonymous sources unchallenged?

The outrage that would ensue. But in Israel, there are no rules.

WAIT wait wait... The US and Israel are carrying out similar acts, One were the US military kills less people in a larger operation over a larger period of time in a more populated area involving more troops but are Nazis and the Israelis are angels huh? Something doesn't seem to make sense here.

This is silly. USA/Israel fight similar wars with near-identical population densities. One country is forced to negotiate, concede, "confidence-building" measures, the other country can bomb, bomb, bomb...and bomb some more, but still consider itself morally superior to tell the Jew how to treat your enemy.

Gee I dunno I would say 9/11 might qualify there no? What pearl harbor size attacks has Hezbollah ever carried out? Hell, what attacks has Hezbollah carried out against Israel that did as much damage as the US Marine Barracks bombings in 83? Unless of course we use your 40/1 ratio. If we do then if Hezbollah manages to sink an Israeli tug its worse than anything that's every happened to the US ever.

the 9/11 was a one trick pony brought on by decades of unchallenged one-sided relationship with saudi arabia.

americans have never dealth with attritional warfare or terrorism on the homefront.

we don't know what its like to be in an actual war. not since the civil war at least.

That was the whole point of the exercise, Israel treated southern Lebanon no different than the US treated Iraq. You did bomb the shit out of it. and have the death toll to back it up. But you want to pretend Israel would never do something like the US does so you need to spin spin spin and talk shit about the US. Your precious IDF is no better than the brave men and women you try and paint as Nazis in the US military.

incorrect. Far starters, hezbollah literally embedded itself among the civilian population to such a degree that it was impossible to differentiate without compromising military objectives.

so, for the most part, all civilian casualties can be attributed to hezbollah being a douche terrorist organization. Hezbollah even used the UN-stations, which israel said would be considered no-fire zones and lebanon civilians could hide under, as cover to attack israeli soldiers.

israel responded, hit the UN station, and killed a few peacekeepers who sat their and typed memos to the UN counsel about how hezbollah was mere 10 meters away from their outpost shooting at israelis.

looking at the precision and accuracy of the IDF it is dubious to say they came in looking to kill as many random people as possible.

israel wasn't looking to invade and occupy south lebanon, but put hezbollah in a corner.

After all, it was the USA and UN that told israel to leave south lebanon, and we promised to disarm hezbollah internationally.

so in the end, we shouldn't tell israel what to do unless we're willing to bare responsibility for our complicity in the aftermath.

Violence doesn't require a killing, like in this case with the rock thrower right? Even though he didn't kill anyone he was a clean kill. I posted a whoooole bunch of videos of Israelis who must be homicidal as well as they are acting in a similar way.

videos are videos. Goebbels was great at making videos. pallywood spends all their aid on videos and victimhood.

It was a simple question, do Palestinians have the same rights of self defense from violent Israelis as Israelis have from Palestinians?

is terrorism self-defense? spoon-feeding children antisemitism self-defense? plotting to blow up buses self-defense?

does flying planes into buildings qualify as self-defense?

certainly more morally and legally defensible than the palestinians bigoted war against israel.

al-qaeda was inspired by our presence in saudi arabia, period.

What is the # of attacks required before it becomes a history? You use the LA police as a justification but according to you we are Nazis so that's not very good is it?

this was during the height of 2nd intifada where buses were blowing in tel aviv.

shit happens in war, but that doesn't say anything about settlers killing palestinians.

between the 1st and 2nd intifads (20+ years), approximately 125 palestinians were killed by israeli civilians in the west bank.

http://www.btselem.org/english/statistics/first_Intifada_Tables.asp

hardly a blood-bath. no indication of any sort of on-going conflict driven by settlers.

i mean fuck, 180,000 jews against 2,500,000+ palestinians, 95% of whom live independent of israel and the IDF?

dear god...over 40,000 palestinians WORK in israeli settlements. now how many israelis work in palestinian cities?

zero.

why?

because their lives might be in danger.

Again, simple question if this was an Israeli kid throwing rocks at an Israeli settler should be shot yes or no?

it happens. IDF soldiers have shot and killed israelis protesting the demolition of homes.

We've released far more than 1,000 combatants in Iraq for nothing in return. Again, you haven't actually bothered to answer the question. If it gets investigated and an Israeli settler gets arrested what will you say?

we've released combatants who have nothing to offer and haven't been charged.

if an israeli settler gets arrested, he gets arrested.

israel has laws, don't break them. palestinians name streets after suicide bombers and glorifies death and suffering.

you assume ISRAEL WAS IN THE WRONG without evidence, that was wrong.

Still waiting for you to provide evidence for the doctor who was shot, how all Israeli cars are bullet-proof, a comparison of Israeli and US ROE and civilian/combatant death ratios.

perhaps you should do your own research:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0925-02.htm

there are a variety of sources describing civilian/combatant ratio and general Israel/US R.O.E.

based on the information and meticulous math i have provided for you, it should be more than obvious our military is more ruthless, more badass, and uses far more firepower than the IDF would in the same situation.

faced with similar threads - two militaries have different levels of reactions.

for starters, USA military can afford losses and can lose money - so long-battles, as costly as they are, aren't going to kill the american economy or compromise the whole war effort.

whereas with israel, the population is the military (doctors, lawyers, janitors, etc...), and whenever there is even a single operation it can have a major effect on the economy.

the 30 day lebanon war cost israel over 10 billion, which is 5% of its annual economy.

the iraq war, on the other hand, has cost us about 1 trillion dollars since 2003.

our annual economy is 14 trillion, and our total economic outpost since 2003-2010 was 93 trillion.

so the iraq war has cost us a little more than 1% of our total economic output since the war began...and much of that was subsidized by the US defense industry, and supported by other NATO allies.

plus, with israel it knows its on the clock. UN will demand a cease-fire, media will portray the enemy as the victims (women, children, etc)...so it only has a limited amount of time to achieve military gains.

US can afford to sit in another country for 8 years and killed 1,000 people every couple of months in large operations.

so perhaps you're right - it is unfair to compare US/Israel R.O.E as both live in different circumstances, but if US were to adopt military policy - the iraq and afghanistan war would have ended a long time ago and far less people would have died.

 

[fallout man]

Damn I wish I were a media mogul. My headline would have been "Jewish Hero saves town from terrorist palestinian."

You're hired, boobie!

 

[Sclamoz]

Are you retarded?

America has a population of 300,000,000. Israel has a population of 7,500,000.

Comparing violence must be based on proportion.

Get it?

You have a sick mind by somehow claiming Israel hasn't suffered enough, or suffered less than the USA (not even close to being true).

I never claimed Israel hasn't suffered enough. Israel has been attacked more than enough to justify their self defense. It was you who claimed the US has no moral ground to fight AQ/Taliban after being attacked. You did so before and you say it again in this post. The fact is we've lost more people to terrorism in the last 10 years than Israel. Is your own hypocrisy starting to sink in yet?

It seems I am the only one who has provided sources to be back up my argument. Unfortunately mainstream media doesn't spend a lot of time questioning the stats released by our military. Very rarely do we here anything remotely critical about Iraq or Afghanistan since Obama took office, even though violence has accelerated exponentially.

As far as casualties go, they can be summed up as follows:

The one month invasion of Iraq killed:

20,000-40,000 Iraqis

Out of those 20k-40k, 7,000 of them were civilian.

The problem with the USA is that it totally barred any independent media from accessing the conflict. MI6 infiltrated BBC, most of the major networks were during human interest stories as soldiers and pimping the war machine.

Even a year later, we really don't know how many civilians died.

But, at a minumum - 20% of killed were civilian.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Israel-Arab conflict

Of the last 25 years, approximately 11,000 people have been killed in the conflict. Between the 1st-2nd intifada, 2nd Lebanon War, and Gaza War - Israel is responsible for the deaths of 8,500 KIAS.

Of those:

89% were combat-age males

93% were males

so says the United Nations (very biased against Israel):

http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/BE07C80CDA4579468525734800500272

UN turns the other way and refuses to explain the qualifications for Palestinian civilians, but its very murky and the tactics used by the PLO (inflating casualties via human shields) make it hard to give a true estimate.

But remember - we're comparing 1 month to 25 years of conflict.

In a matter of days our military killed more people than Israel had in its entire existence.

So a 20% civilian causality rate for the US compared to (from YOUR article)

Since September 2000, of Palestinians killed by Israeli security forces, whose status was known 7/, 59% were civilians and 41% were engaged in hostilities at the time of their death.

Amongst your conspiracy theories about MI6 you seem to have left that out. That would make Israel the Nazis according to you no correct? I doubt you'll ever admit it though.

No gang rapes, massacres, pillaging, or anything of the sort has been committed by the IDF.

If that were the case, there would be movies and UN resolutions describing the victims.

Just 2 days a good another Iraqi doctor was shot dead by US soldiers.

He wasn't even throwing rocks.

No outrage?

What? Who the hell do you think you are kidding?

Cleared for publication at Ynet's request: 35 soldiers at Air Force base suspected of raping, sexually assaulting 14-year-old girl; IDF officials: We're talking about grave events taking place inside a military base

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/1,7340,L-3245593,00.html

At least 17 soldiers and five civilians are under investigation for the rape of an 11-year-old girl at an Israeli air base, the military confirmed yesterday.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/02/israel

http://www.haaretz.com/news/idf-com...n-a-million-cluster-bombs-in-lebanon-1.197099

I'm still waiting on this info about the Iraqi doctor.

It seems you deny the undeniable. Hamas and Hezbollah are larger, bigger, faster, stronger, more weapons, etc.

Al-Qaeda and the Taliban do not have scud missiles, nor are they bordering any Western nation preparing for a physical war.

Get it?

They don't have to border the US they are strong enough to carry out more sophisticated attacks across the world. They directly border our allies and threaten our interests and continue to expand across the world. Get it?

No one even knows if that scud report you reference was true, if it was Israel likely would have done something about it. Even if it is true, can you make the claim that you know of every weapon that AQ has access to?

I am putting the threat in perspective. Al-Qaeda is merely a lightening rod for imperialism. Rather bizarre we supposed invaded Afghanistan because of 9/11 (even though the war was planned 3 weeks before 9/11) to find Osama Bin Laden. We didn't find him because he was actually hiding in Pakistan, so instead of invading Pakistan we give Pakistan more money to fight the Taliban...who had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 or al-qaeda.

Al-Qaeda has such an irrelevant presence in Afghanistan it's not even funny.

That's what I thought, you're a fucking truther. The Taliban are obviously connected to Al-Qaeda. Which is why we carry out attacks against them and pay Pakistan to fight them as well.

But its funny to hear you bitch about the US NOT invading Pakistan and in the next thought you say 9/11 was an excuse for imperialism and bitch about the US carrying out airstrikes in Pakistan. You can't have it both ways no matter how hard you try and twist logic.

Care to tell us how you know where Bin Laden is?

The press work in Iraq and Afghanistan just like they do in Israel. The IDF make up favorable numbers just like every other military, get over it son.

http://www.unicef.org/emerg/index_35274.html


That's just children under 13 FYI. We can only imagine how high it is for under 18.

UN defines children as anyone under the age of 18.

At least 1,140 civilians -- 30 percent of them children under 12 -- have been killed along with 43 Lebanese army and police troops in the month-long offensive that ended on Monday, the state High Relief Committee said.The HRC tolls do not count people still believed to be under the rubble in various locations across the country.

Once reviewing the actual casualty stats, you'll find that a majority of kills are combat-age males - and all kills occuring heavily-shia areas, virtually all run by Hezbollah.

Heavily shia areas controlled by Hezbollah...you mean almost all of Lebanon? Not exactly narrowing it down. Again 30% were under the age of 13.

This is silly. USA/Israel fight similar wars with near-identical population densities. One country is forced to negotiate, concede, "confidence-building" measures, the other country can bomb, bomb, bomb...and bomb some more, but still consider itself morally superior to tell the Jew how to treat your enemy.
the 9/11 was a one trick pony brought on by decades of unchallenged one-sided relationship with saudi arabia.

americans have never dealth with attritional warfare or terrorism on the homefront.

we don't know what its like to be in an actual war. not since the civil war at least.

If you have a problem with your government not having any balls and retreating every time the shit hits the fan that's not my problem, don't bitch to me about.

and about.. "bomb some more, but still consider itself morally superior to tell the Jew how to treat your enemy." Funny, in this thread it seems to be the other way around.

The US was attacked by AQ many times before 9/11, so you're wrong again.

I'm sorry not enough Americans have died to justify self defense for you. How many attacks and dead Americans do we need before you stop bitching?

incorrect. Far starters, hezbollah literally embedded itself among the civilian population to such a degree that it was impossible to differentiate without compromising military objectives.

Yes I agree. The US deals with the same issues in our wars, of course that's not a problem for you to call us Nazis and complain about

israel responded, hit the UN station, and killed a few peacekeepers who sat their and typed memos to the UN counsel about how hezbollah was mere 10 meters away from their outpost shooting at israelis.

looking at the precision and accuracy of the IDF it is dubious to say they came in looking to kill as many random people as possible.

israel wasn't looking to invade and occupy south lebanon, but put hezbollah in a corner.

After all, it was the USA and UN that told israel to leave south lebanon, and we promised to disarm hezbollah internationally.

so in the end, we shouldn't tell israel what to do unless we're willing to bare responsibility for our complicity in the aftermath.

What are you even talking about? What does this have to do with anything? Are you just a pissed off jew and you're going to rant about every single thing you can think of?

videos are videos. Goebbels was great at making videos. pallywood spends all their aid on videos and victimhood.

is terrorism self-defense? spoon-feeding children antisemitism self-defense? plotting to blow up buses self-defense?

does flying planes into buildings qualify as self-defense?

certainly more morally and legally defensible than the palestinians bigoted war against israel.

al-qaeda was inspired by our presence in saudi arabia, period.

Got it, you sympathize with AQ and anything shedding Israel in a bad light is Nazi propaganda. I hope you are raped to death by a gang of Wahhabis.

this was during the height of 2nd intifada where buses were blowing in tel aviv.

shit happens in war, but that doesn't say anything about settlers killing palestinians.

between the 1st and 2nd intifads (20+ years), approximately 125 palestinians were killed by israeli civilians in the west bank.

http://www.btselem.org/english/statistics/first_Intifada_Tables.asp

hardly a blood-bath. no indication of any sort of on-going conflict driven by settlers.

i mean fuck, 180,000 jews against 2,500,000+ palestinians, 95% of whom live independent of israel and the IDF?

dear god...over 40,000 palestinians WORK in israeli settlements. now how many israelis work in palestinian cities?

zero.

why?

because their lives might be in danger.

More BS rants. None of the deaths I posted are tied in any way to war or the IDF all settler violence against Palestinian civilians. Simple fucking question, do they have the same rights to self defense?

it happens. IDF soldiers have shot and killed israelis protesting the demolition of homes.

Glad to hear it. Now do Palestinians have the same rights of self defense against settlers?

you assume ISRAEL WAS IN THE WRONG without evidence, that was wrong.

Eh? I haven't assumed anything about Israel doing something wrong without evidence.

perhaps you should do your own research:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0925-02.htm

there are a variety of sources describing civilian/combatant ratio and general Israel/US R.O.E.

based on the information and meticulous math i have provided for you, it should be more than obvious our military is more ruthless, more badass, and uses far more firepower than the IDF would in the same situation.

faced with similar threads - two militaries have different levels of reactions.

for starters, USA military can afford losses and can lose money - so long-battles, as costly as they are, aren't going to kill the american economy or compromise the whole war effort.

whereas with israel, the population is the military (doctors, lawyers, janitors, etc...), and whenever there is even a single operation it can have a major effect on the economy.

the 30 day lebanon war cost israel over 10 billion, which is 5% of its annual economy.

the iraq war, on the other hand, has cost us about 1 trillion dollars since 2003.

our annual economy is 14 trillion, and our total economic outpost since 2003-2010 was 93 trillion.

so the iraq war has cost us a little more than 1% of our total economic output since the war began...and much of that was subsidized by the US defense industry, and supported by other NATO allies.

plus, with israel it knows its on the clock. UN will demand a cease-fire, media will portray the enemy as the victims (women, children, etc)...so it only has a limited amount of time to achieve military gains.

US can afford to sit in another country for 8 years and killed 1,000 people every couple of months in large operations.

so perhaps you're right - it is unfair to compare US/Israel R.O.E as both live in different circumstances, but if US were to adopt military policy - the iraq and afghanistan war would have ended a long time ago and far less people would have died.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64fbqYQY

Not a single thing you have said has anything factual to do with US/Israeli ROE and as I showed before you're own article shows Israel has a higher civilian causality rate. Your arguments about Israeli not being able to afford to fight long costly battles like the US is a suggestion that they would be LESS likely to have strict rules of engagement.

We're talking about how the US civilian/combatant death ratio is Nazi like compared to Israel, how all Israeli cars are bullet proof, a comparison of US Israeli ROE, and and a link about an Iraqi doctor being shot 2 days ago. All claims you have made. If there are various sources please just provide 1 valid source, it shouldn't be that hard if you already know all of this!

 

[Noobtastic]

i cannot respond to meticulous data

 

[Sclamoz]

You have no meticulous data to respond to. Like always you resort to making claim after claim and when asked for proof you make something else up and then something else.

The one time you did actually try and provide evidence you actually showed the US having a better civilian/combatant kill ratio than Israel which YOU claimed was the other way around.

 

[fallout man]

Dude, IHV, why are you so hell-bent on re-using the image macros I used to laugh at you? Are you new to the internets, or something? You act like an aspie.

 

[Noobtastic]

Dude, IHV, why are you so hell-bent on re-using the image macros I used to laugh at you? Are you new to the internets, or something? You act like an aspie.