holy cow.. maybe I should've went to law school

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
So with the hours a lawyer making 150k will have to work...

yeah...that works out to about 40 $/hr.

There are tons of jobs that make 40+ an hour.

Welders make more than that an hour. My cousin who does structural welding makes 120-150 $/hr depending on the job. He pulls in 300k a year for about 20-25 hours a week work of work.

$120-$150/hr * 20-25 hours a week = $300k? Interesting.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
So with the hours a lawyer making 150k will have to work...

yeah...that works out to about 40 $/hr.

There are tons of jobs that make 40+ an hour.

Welders make more than that an hour. My cousin who does structural welding makes 120-150 $/hr depending on the job. He pulls in 300k a year for about 20-25 hours a week work of work.

$120-$150/hr * 20-25 hours a week = $300k? Interesting.

Aside from the fact that his math doesn't quite add up, I think the example you are describing is what is known as a "statistical outlier". Finding an example of one welder who makes $300k does not imply that all welders make $300k, or that even half of them do. I would venture to guess that the vast majority make nowhere near that much.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: gopunk
i'd like to hear the name of the firm that offers 150k base... not even the top NY law firms offer that

several firms in houston offer that to freshly licensed attorneys.



but, you have to be top 10% at a good law school after your first year in order to get a sniff from one of them. and that is hard to do. especially if you can't write. and then you usually have to stay in the top 10% to 15% for the next two years. again, it is hard to do (people who start in the top 10% are often that way because they figured out how to write law school exams in the first semester. as time goes on, more people figure it out, so you've got more competition.).

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
So with the hours a lawyer making 150k will have to work...

yeah...that works out to about 40 $/hr.

There are tons of jobs that make 40+ an hour.

Welders make more than that an hour. My cousin who does structural welding makes 120-150 $/hr depending on the job. He pulls in 300k a year for about 20-25 hours a week work of work.

$120-$150/hr * 20-25 hours a week = $300k? Interesting.

Aside from the fact that his math doesn't quite add up, I think the example you are describing is what is known as a "statistical outlier". Finding an example of one welder who makes $300k does not imply that all welders make $300k, or that even half of them do. I would venture to guess that the vast majority make nowhere near that much.

Right, and the "it's really only $40/hr" argument is typical nonsense as is going by pay per-hour. People seem to think there's something impressive about a high billing rate, but the reality is that most people don't have the capacity to earn high income because they're not 100+% billable. A welder would have to work ~80 hours/week every week in order to command that income (based on the hourly rate he indicated), and that's simply not something that's sustainable.

Not all lawyers work crazy hours every week either. Every professional position requires certain periods of long hours, but there is often a long period of downtime as well.

 

[michaels]

Tons of wielders only make chump change like 8-10 an hour. But then again there are plenty who make a lot of money.

 

[Randum]

yeah good point, if you only go for the money, you will have a HORRIBLE life....i see it far too often. I am going to law school because I LOVE anything to do with teh courtroom or legal work- contracts documents, everything about it. I am really passionate about it, money is 2nd

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Randum
yeah good point, if you only go for the money, you will have a HORRIBLE life....i see it far too often. I am going to law school because I LOVE anything to do with teh courtroom or legal work- contracts documents, everything about it. I am really passionate about it, money is 2nd

And I think that's true for most things; personally, I wouldn't be able to retain enough interest to even get through the first year of law school, so I'd never be successful. If you enjoy it, then it could be a wildly successful career path.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: gopunk
i'd like to hear the name of the firm that offers 150k base... not even the top NY law firms offer that

Sorry, but NY isn't the highest paid for Law.

Actually, Texas has some of the highest paid ones.

Tied to Big Oil and such. The living standards are cheap here too, so it is a win-win.

But seriously, don't choose something primarily for money. Make sure it is something you want to do otherwise you won't last too long in that environment.

who's the highest paid for law then? the only texas firm i know about is baker botts, and last i heard, they're at 140.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: gopunk
i'd like to hear the name of the firm that offers 150k base... not even the top NY law firms offer that

several firms in houston offer that to freshly licensed attorneys.



but, you have to be top 10% at a good law school after your first year in order to get a sniff from one of them. and that is hard to do. especially if you can't write. and then you usually have to stay in the top 10% to 15% for the next two years. again, it is hard to do (people who start in the top 10% are often that way because they figured out how to write law school exams in the first semester. as time goes on, more people figure it out, so you've got more competition.).

i don't know anything about texas firms, can you name some that offer 150 base starting?

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: DaWhim
I heard you have to sell your soul.

Yep. But that's the trade-off

 

[SKORPI0]

Originally posted by: everman

Kathleen Sullivan is a noted constitutional scholar who has argued cases before the Supreme Court. Until recently, she was dean of Stanford Law School. In legal circles, she has been talked about as a potential Democratic nominee for the Supreme Court. But Ms. Sullivan recently became the latest prominent victim of California's notoriously difficult bar exam. Last month, the state sent out the results of its July test to 8,343 aspiring and already-practicing lawyers. More than half failed -- including Ms. Sullivan.

Does this mean that you can practice law and be a Dean of a Law School without passing the bar?

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: SKORPI0

Originally posted by: everman

Kathleen Sullivan is a noted constitutional scholar who has argued cases before the Supreme Court. Until recently, she was dean of Stanford Law School. In legal circles, she has been talked about as a potential Democratic nominee for the Supreme Court. But Ms. Sullivan recently became the latest prominent victim of California's notoriously difficult bar exam. Last month, the state sent out the results of its July test to 8,343 aspiring and already-practicing lawyers. More than half failed -- including Ms. Sullivan.

Does this mean that you can practice law and be a Dean of a Law School without passing the bar?

no, it means you can be a law professor and the dean of a law school without passing the bar

 

[dr150]

Originally posted by: gopunk
i'd like to hear the name of the firm that offers 150k base... not even the top NY law firms offer that

Agreed. This sounds bogus.

Only top 5-10 schools can command ~$130k for their better graduates and only in big markets like NYC, LA, Chicago. At other schools, the student needs to be at the VERY TOP of his class.

In addition, as has been said, you literally sell your soul. 100+ hours, 24/7 on-call, overnighters are the norm. If you make partner, the hours get WORSE as now you have revenue responsibility..........If you don't make partner (usually only 10% make it), you leave when you get passed over.

I've never met a happy lawyer, and all my friends had top jobs after law school. They're most all doing something else 5 years out.

 

[dr150]

Originally posted by: loki8481
fvck 150K/year.

give me a job that pays the bills, leaves me with plenty of free time to pursue my interests/hobbies and spend time with friends and family, and enough cash left over for a 6-pack, and I'm a happy man

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Koing]

The guy could very well make it. The VERY best guys get paid very well and will always do well. My friends bro is the best graduate in Maths at a Top 3 Uni and turned down serveral jobs that were paying 2x what the avg graduate gets out fresh out of Uni. Why? Because he can pick the firm he exactly wanted to work for. He is that good. He is a f0cking genius and a nice guy :thumbsup:, very modest.

Lawyers in England will work a lot of hrs 60-80hr weeks but they will pull in a lot of £££ later. The starting salaries are good but not amazing.

Koing

 

[AnthroAndStargate]

If you go into public interest law you dont sell your soul - you actually gang another. But your second sould dies of starvation from the like 70k sal. and then your back to square one.

 

[miniMUNCH]

Yeah guys... I apologize for the lack of detail. I think I posted about my cousin's business while buzzed.

My cousin, I think, has two journeyman welders that he pays about $40-50 per hour. I realy don't know all the specifics...just that he and his guys work 3-4 days a week, sometimes less...and that he clears over 300k a year in pure profit (after all business expenses). Oh...and my cousin never finished high school...he took the GED when he was 17 and started welding. I think, but I'm not sure, he owned his first house outright (no mortgage) by the time he was 24-25.

I do also remember that my cousin told me his rates were more or less standard so most guys in his line of work with equivalent experience make about the same money if they work solo (100-150 $/hr) and can hire on apprentice and journeyman welders without much hassle.

 

[miniMUNCH]

Nobody will probably believe me on this...

but I have another cousin who is a radiologist in Hawaii...lucky guy. Radiologists make good money but you stay pretty busy apparently...in some cases, radiologist cover multiple hospitals/clinics and are on call a lot.

But I think radiologists easily clear 100+ $/hr of work.

 

[Chebago]

I actually think $150,000 a year is becoming the norm this year. I remember reading an article not too long ago talking about how some NYC law firm found out that its first year associates were living paycheck to paycheck on $135,000 because of the high price of rent compounded by the huge debt of law school. So they chose to raise salaries to 150 grand a year to cope, forcing other firms to do the same to stay within "market" rate. In order to do that however I think they are cutting the bonuses quite a bit...

 

[DivideBYZero]

Imagine if you'd gone to law school.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: fritolays

He got a couple job offers already in Miami and the lowest pay is 150K

But the question is.... how many hours do you think he will have to put in? I am guessing its a tad more than $40 per week.

 

[CptObvious]

Most BIGLAW firms paying $120K+ a year raised their minimum billables requirements to 2200 hours/year. That probably works out to 75-80 hours a week (factoring in that one can't bill for every hour at the office). It's no wonder people work in BIGLAW for 5 years max to pay off their loans and build a nest egg, then leave for a smaller firm with a significant paycut, but with reasonable hours.

 

[JEDI]

Sacrifice some spinach for your soul

 

[dug777]

I'm going to law school & the starting salaries aren't that great here, combine that with long hours and i had no problems looking outside the law firms for work, and no problems finding it, for more than my mates are making next year, and significantly less hours

Of course, they'll be raking it in down the track, still with the long hours but...whereas i'll have to work hard & smart to make good progress up the ladder, and the rewards aren't nearly as high...

 

[erub]

Originally posted by: CptObvious
Most BIGLAW firms paying $120K+ a year raised their minimum billables requirements to 2200 hours/year. That probably works out to 75-80 hours a week (factoring in that one can't bill for every hour at the office). It's no wonder people work in BIGLAW for 5 years max to pay off their loans and build a nest egg, then leave for a smaller firm with a significant paycut, but with reasonable hours.

2200/48 weeks (lets give yourself a nice vacation/sick time amt) = 46 hrs/week

do you really have to spend almost double that amount of time unbillable?