Holographic storage

[Malak]

Linky
Linky

Several industries require major amounts of backup(i.e. the medical industry), which is very tedious using today's backup media, and very space-consuming. This has spurred on new technology to put more information into a smaller container.

I have already seen a laptop, using this technology, that has 1TB of RAM. It's ridiculous how huge the increase in peformance and capacity is using holographic storage, and it's such a huge jump that Windows can't even handle it!

What affect do you suppose we will see this having on the industry as a whole? I can already see Microsoft scrambling to make it work with Windows...

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Malak
Linky
Linky

Several industries require major amounts of backup(i.e. the medical industry), which is very tedious using today's backup media, and very space-consuming. This has spurred on new technology to put more information into a smaller container.

Holographic storage has been "around the corner" for about 25 years now. So far, making (reasonably quickly) writable holographic storage has been near-impossible, as well as making any kind of cheap and reliable holographic storage. It's interesting technology, but so far it has not proven it is ready to make the jump to commercial applications.

I have already seen a laptop, using this technology, that has 1TB of RAM.

Um... I gotta call shens unless you have something to back that up. I've never heard of any of these technologies making it out of the lab, let alone being interfaced with a laptop as its main system memory (and why would they try to make it the RAM instead of making it a storage device, which would be far more compatible?)

What affect do you suppose we will see this having on the industry as a whole? I can already see Microsoft scrambling to make it work with Windows...

Ridiculously fast, cheap rewritable storage with the sort of densities most of these technologies promise would give even the smallest computer a preposterous amount of storage capacity by today's standards. But I've seen nothing to make me think this technology is close to fruition.

 

[Malak]

It is RAM, but it's non-volatile. They have the first commercial wifi laptop with no harddrive. The cheap ones are only around 4GB of RAM with up to 500GB of storage, using the same technology. The read/write speeds are much faster than anything we have today though, so the laptop would be a powerhouse. Oh, and their CPU is 6.8ghz...

Edit: Oh, and it weighs less than 3lbs, which is also nice

Now if you look at their super laptops, they have the 1TB and 2TB modules, which would mean you wouldn't need a HD specifically, but you could have up to 3TB under the hood.

The research is there, the medium is there, the technology is patented, the product is for sale... we're here guys.

 

[snoturtle]

that site looks like bs and smells fishy
other than the fact that the OS can't access that much ram to begin with
also no mention anywhere of if/when these will actually be available

if its real it will be an unbelieveable leap in tech but I highly doubt it is

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: snoturtle
that site looks like bs and smells fishy
other than the fact that the OS can't access that much ram to begin with
also no mention anywhere of if/when these will actually be available

if its real it will be an unbelieveable leap in tech but I highly doubt it is

That's probably why they run 8 instances of the OS at the same time

 

[snoturtle]

lol
windows 32bit has issues accessing 4 gigs at a time
so 1024/4=256 version of windows need to run at the sametime to use all of the ram in that system

how would you run 8 copies at once and do anything useful

 

[itachi]

the promise of holographic storage is density.. being able to store a lot of information into a smaller amount of space. i haven't read much, if anything, about a benefit in performance compared to solid-state devices. theoretically, it can achieve bandwidths on the order of gigabits, but that'll have to be sacrificed for mass storage in order to get a signal that's actually readable (error correction schemes can only do so much).

in industries that require a large amount of storage space for backup, speed isn't much of a factor. the systems are typically set to automatically back up all the data stored on the server at a specific interval. considering that backups are there "just in case", nobody expects to have to use them.. so there's really no sense in spending 100x what it would cost for tape backups.

imo, i don't think holographic storage will reach the mainstream for a long.. long.. long time. it's far more difficult to produce a medium that produces 8 diffraction gratings from 1 beam than it is to produce something like a cd.

i think magnetic ram would have a much bigger impact on the industry, if it ever comes out.. it's cheap to make, can be as dense as dram, has a low power consumption, is non-volatile, and can provide performances equal to or better than sram.

 

[patentman]

Originally posted by: Malak
They have the first commercial wifi laptop

Now if you look at their super laptops, they have the 1TB and 2TB modules, which would mean you wouldn't need a HD specifically, but you could have up to 3TB under the hood.

Not to be negative, but I agree, this smells like BS. This is straight from their site:

originally posted on the site linked above
4GB AtomChip® Quantum-Optical Non-Volatile RAM / 4GHz AtomChip® CPU (AtomChip®Quantum® processor)/ 100GB-200GB or 500GB AtomChip® Quantum Storage / 8.9" 16:9 wide view color LTPS TFT LCD with (32-bit) 1024 x 600 (XGA-W) high resolution display. Touch Panel overlaid for full screen touch control. Landscape and Portrait dual mode / MULTIPLE EMBEDDED WIRELESS FUNCTIONS: WiFi (with antenna build-in), Bluetooth (with antenna build-in), GPS (with Bluetooth antenna), GPRS/CDMA with antenna built-in (Quad-band: 850,900,1800,1900), SIM card slot (for phone and Internet world wide connections) / PCMCIA slot x 1 / IEEE1394 x 2 / USB2.0 x 2 / TV-out / SVGA-out (up to 2048 x 1536 screen resolution) / LAN (RJ45) / Modem(RJ11) / Stereo Earphone-out / Buit-in two Stereo Speakers / Built-in Microphone / Quick Buttons: Mouse buttons, Track Point, PAN button, Hot keys (on key board) / Rechargeable Li-Ion battery / Windows XP Professional / Voice Command / PROMT-Translator (8 languages) / AC Adapter / 1.3 Mega pixel wireless camera / Dimensions: 235 x 155 x 31 (mm) / Weight around 2.81lb (1280g) when fully equipped.

The expected selling price is $4,500-$6,500.

Ok, these guys have a working laptop with a) a working, commercially feasible optical processor (the atom chip); b) holographic ram; and c) a holographic storage drive? I don't think so....Maybe they've got something at the research phase, but if this was anywhere near commercial I think everyone who hits this site would be peeing his pants to get a hold of one. At least you would think we would have heard about it before now. Cool technology though!

I'm thinking maybe....just maybe, we might see one of these 5 years from now.

The company is legit though, its based off of a research group in heidelberg germany.

 

[Malak]

They have patents, awards, pictures, and working models... what more do you want? How can this be so hard for people to believe?

 

[velis]

lol, the pics are really nice and those specs seem even better, but I still can't buy one of those machines. Can you?
If there was a working sample of this technology I highly doubt it would start as a fully working notebook. I'm thinking more in the line of hard disks and maybe even RAM modules.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: velis
lol, the pics are really nice and those specs seem even better, but I still can't buy one of those machines. Can you?
If there was a working sample of this technology I highly doubt it would start as a fully working notebook. I'm thinking more in the line of hard disks and maybe even RAM modules.

Are you guys looking at the same site as me? It might have started just as modules, but they have it in laptops, functioning, right now. They showed one off at the last CES and was an award honoree. They have awards from around the world showing this off. Most companies don't put price tags on prototypes or hopes and dreams.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Malak

Originally posted by: velis
lol, the pics are really nice and those specs seem even better, but I still can't buy one of those machines. Can you?
If there was a working sample of this technology I highly doubt it would start as a fully working notebook. I'm thinking more in the line of hard disks and maybe even RAM modules.

Are you guys looking at the same site as me? It might have started just as modules, but they have it in laptops, functioning, right now. They showed one off at the last CES and was an award honoree.

Have you been to CES? I have. Getting an "award" does NOT mean they have a functioning product.

They have awards from around the world showing this off. Most companies don't put price tags on prototypes or hopes and dreams.

The expected selling price is $4,500-$6,500.

Note: "expected", ie, they're not selling it yet. You can find no shortage of companies proclaiming what future or near-future technologies will cost, almost all of it BS.

Look, it sounds great. Too good to be true, in fact. And in my experience, when something in the technology world sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

I'll believe the hype when it's sitting on a store shelf.

 

[EightySix Four]

I'm sorry, but anyone that believes that site for anything other than a joke should be shot.

 

[Codewiz]

Ummm I guess you have never heard of Bitboys

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297
I'm sorry, but anyone that believes that site for anything other than a joke should be shot.

So the research papers from IBM, the many white papers you can find on it, the patents, the working models, the many other companies developing both devices and medium, and the articles in magazines... all are just a joke? Get real.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Malak

Originally posted by: crazySOB297
I'm sorry, but anyone that believes that site for anything other than a joke should be shot.

So the research papers from IBM

IBM writes a lot of research papers on a lot of topics. Research papers != functioning real-world product.

the many white papers you can find on it

The theory behind holographic storage is well-developed. Commercializing it has proven extremely difficult. Again, white papers != functioning real-world product.

the patents

They can patent whatever crazy things they like. A lot of this stuff has been proven in the lab (to the point where you could patent it), but is a long ways from being commercially viable in any way. Patents != functioning real-world product.

the working models

If they have working models of anything like what they're talking about on that website, they sure aren't letting anybody else see them. They have a working laptop with 2TB of dirt-cheap high-speed holographic R/W storage (when everyone else is struggling to even make read-only holography work in any sort of economically feasable way) that they're ready to sell for $5-6k, and they don't seem to have shown it to anyone? No buzz, no previews, no benchmarks, nothing but a couple vague photos and a cheesy website?

Please tell me you understand how preposterous that sounds. This is pretty much the definition of 'too good to be true'.

the many other companies developing both devices and medium

A lot of people have been working on this sort of technology for a long time. Doesn't mean it's ready for prime time yet. Many people working on it != functioning real-world product.

and the articles in magazines

OMG! Magazine articles! Now you've convinced me! It must be real!

Magazine articles != functioning real-world product.

Perhaps I can interest you in some really impressive-looking, flashy computers? Look, they have articles and technobabble! And press releases! And lots of RandomTechnologyThatIsCapitalizedForNoReason! And their website is very impressive...

For kicks, I looked up some of their patents (the ones listed on the website). There is some semi-reasonable stuff about magnetic-core RAM, and then a VERY BS-sounding patent (link) dealing with the so-called "Gendlin Effect" (named after its discoverer, hoo-hey hoo-hey). Oddly, this 'effect' seems to exist only in their patents and press releases, as I cannot find any outside references to it. :roll: Also, this patent, unlike the other ones they list, is not referenced by any other patents (except some of their own, which to me do not appear directly related).

Found this talking about some of the stuff. The technology appears to have just appeared out of nowhere. Technology like this does not appear out of nowhere.

An article about this "Gendlin" character: link. Sounds like a real upstanding guy.

The two principals of Kappa Numerics to whom EN spoke were incensed by discussions of Dr. Gendlin commercializing the work, saying "everything he says is incorrect" and that they would prosecute.

In fact, Dr. Gendlin told EN, that not only was he the researcher behind Intel's new "StrataFlash" two-bit per cell memories because he worked on that at Kappa, but that in 1993 he showed Intel worldwide manufacturing VP Mike Splinter his work on Quantum and "Intel wanted it." Over what Kappa Numerics intended to do with the memory science, Dr. Gendlin and Kappa "divorced," he said, and a breach of contract suit began, which culminated in the injunction.

Through a spokesman, Intel Israel head of operations Dov Froman said he had not heard of Kappa Numerics and Mr. Splinter said Intel has "no relationship" with the company. Beyond that, the spokesman said, Intel did not "see the value in getting involved" with Dr. Gendlin's testimony.

I'm going to CES this year, so I'll be sure to find their booth and grill them mercilessly. Hopefully in front of investors.

 

[Bassyhead]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/07/atom_chip_miracle_machine/

Looks pretty fishy to me

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: Malak

Originally posted by: crazySOB297
I'm sorry, but anyone that believes that site for anything other than a joke should be shot.

So the research papers from IBM, the many white papers you can find on it, the patents, the working models, the many other companies developing both devices and medium, and the articles in magazines... all are just a joke? Get real.

Dude, I'm talking about the laptop...
http://atomchip.com/_wsn/page4.html


edit: and after re-reading... I realize you realised I'm talking about the laptop... that just makes you sad.

 

[Malak]

I think it will be great to have a 3rd competitor in the CPU business.

 

[EightySix Four]

Dude, your sad... there is no optical chip coming out anytime soon... ESPECIALLY from those morons.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297
Dude, your sad... there is no optical chip coming out anytime soon... ESPECIALLY from those morons.

I am ignoring such comments if you haven't figured that out yet. There have been people like you with every great invention, saying it's not possible and it won't happen. I'm sick of it.

 

[patentman]

Malak, I never said it wouldn;t happen, I'm just saying it hasn't happened yet. Don't you think its even slightly fishy that a HUGE advance in technology, like a working optical processor hasn;t been in the news or at least on AT or some other hardware site before?

Just because they have a picture of "a" laptop doesn't mean that what they say it contains it contains. Thats equivalent to saying what the components contained in a pc are by looking at the case!

The atomchip group is legit though, these guys have a lot of peer reviewed articles out there. I wouldn;t doubt if they have done a lot of research in the technology. I juts doubt they have a working processor.

As for holographic storage, that other group you linked to (in-phase) is supposed to come out with a legit holographic storage product in '06 or '07, and they;ve been working on that technology for a very long time.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Malak

Originally posted by: crazySOB297
I'm sorry, but anyone that believes that site for anything other than a joke should be shot.

So the research papers from IBM, the many white papers you can find on it, the patents, the working models, the many other companies developing both devices and medium, and the articles in magazines... all are just a joke? Get real.

No, those i believe. That website and YOU seeing one, are complete BS.

 

[the splat in the hat]

When its available then its believable, like the quantum bio cpu chip 7 years ago, giggle giggle , so what happened to that, show me one in a shop with a price tag......that works to them spec's.................

 

[arcas]

Let me get this straight. They claim that their "super notebook" has a total of 1.5TB non-volatile storage/RAM. 1.5TB small enough to fit in a 9" laptop form-factor. If they possessed this technology today, I assure you they would not be selling it in $18k notebooks. They would be selling the modules to manufacturers of mainframes and storage area networks.