Holocaust Survivors Assistance Act of 2011

[woolfe9999]

Nice job actually looking at the legislation and finding those nasty tidbits on whatever garbage blog he linked to.

The usual Israel bashers often repeat that being anti-Israel is not the same as being anti-simetic. That may be true, but it's telling that they're the first ones to race in here and complain about Jews when this has nothing to do with Israel (and technically nothing to do with Jews either although it's true that the largest segment of Holocaust survivors in the US are probably jewish.)

Opposition to Israel isn't even usually about anti-semitism. There are two, maybe three, anti-Israel posters on this board that are pretty clearly anti-semitic. For the rest, there is no evidence of it. Where Sandeagle stands ought to be obvious to pretty much everyone.

 

[soccerballtux]

horseshit. the only people with agendas are people like you who hope these bills pass without the American public noticing it. im sure 99% of the people who agree have no agenda. why not put it to ballot or publicly announce it?

for the same reason we shouldn't have and didn't put healthcare on the ballot.

 

[SandEagle]

Opposition to Israel isn't even usually about anti-semitism. There are two, maybe three, anti-Israel posters on this board that are pretty clearly anti-semitic. For the rest, there is no evidence of it. Where Sandeagle stands ought to be obvious to pretty much everyone.

please do tell me where I stand. :\ dont be so obtuse. anti-this bill isnt anti anything

 

[bfdd]

If Holocaust survivors want something, they have to go ask the fuckers that did it to them. I don't owe them shit and Americans have already paid a rather steep price to allow them to be survivors in the first place. We don't owe them shit. This special treatment of groups is retarded, bad form.

 

[soccerballtux]

If Holocaust survivors want something, they have to go ask the fuckers that did it to them. I don't owe them shit and Americans have already paid a rather steep price to allow them to be survivors in the first place. We don't owe them shit. This special treatment of groups is retarded, bad form.

no we paid a price to remain free. That's what we got. We did not pay for the holocaust survivors. That's what this is about: we still have to pay them.

 

[irishScott]

They are probably trolling for votes in their districts. Getting elected is far more important to both parties than actually fixing the budget mess.

This. Helps said politicians obtain the Jewish vote with minimal consequences.

 

[bfdd]

no we paid a price to remain free. That's what we got. We did not pay for the holocaust survivors. That's what this is about: we still have to pay them.

uh lols wtf are you talking about? pretty sure we spent some lives and a ton of money fucking over the Nazi's. if we never did that, there wouldn't be any holocaust survivors. sure it was a byproduct of our fighting in the war, but it still cost us a ton.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I'm not too worried about the cost of caring for holocaust survivors. I mean how many people are we talking about, 20 or 30? I guess it depends on how you define survivor.

 

[irishScott]

no we paid a price to remain free. That's what we got. We did not pay for the holocaust survivors. That's what this is about: we still have to pay them.

So because we spent hundreds of thousands of lives and arguably trillions (adjusted for inflation) of $$$ in an effort that had the effect of stopping the holocaust, we still owe them because the intent was not to stop the holocaust?

That's like saying that if I see a guy beating you up, realize he's the guy who hit my sister and start beating him up, that I'm supposed to pay your hospital bills. It makes no sense.

 

[bfdd]

I'm not too worried about the cost of caring for holocaust survivors. I mean how many people are we talking about, 20 or 30? I guess it depends on how you define survivor.

Why should they get any special treatment compared to other elderly here? What about Japanese internment camp survivors. Sure we paid them off, but so? We should make special concessions for their healthcare as well! This is stupid and they shouldn't see an extra fucking dime, just because they're from some "special group".

 

[SandEagle]

this is why we need universal healthcare

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Why should they get any special treatment compared to other elderly here? What about Japanese internment camp survivors. Sure we paid them off, but so? We should make special concessions for their healthcare as well! This is stupid and they shouldn't see an extra fucking dime, just because they're from some "special group".

Look, it's obviously influence/favor buying. As pork barrel goes, it's damn cheap.

 

[woolfe9999]

If Holocaust survivors want something, they have to go ask the fuckers that did it to them. I don't owe them shit and Americans have already paid a rather steep price to allow them to be survivors in the first place. We don't owe them shit. This special treatment of groups is retarded, bad form.

I don't agree with the bill either, or most others like it, but in fairness, the bill is more like charity than compensation. It isn't based on the notion that we're obligated to do it. Since this is a democracy, if the majority of people want to do it, we'll do it. However, I suspect this sort of thing is not favored by a majority and I doubt it will pass through Congress.

 

[bfdd]

I don't agree with the bill either, or most others like it, but in fairness, the bill is more like charity than compensation. It isn't based on the notion that we're obligated to do it. Since this is a democracy, if the majority of people want to do it, we'll do it. However, I suspect this sort of thing is not favored by a majority and I doubt it will pass through Congress.

Charity for all or for none. Only idiots would vote for a special group to get special treatment. How undemocratic of us.

 

[woolfe9999]

Charity for all or for none. Only idiots would vote for a special group to get special treatment. How undemocratic of us.

That's fine, but there is a straw man argument going on in this thread that is about rebutting the notion that America somehow owes them compensation. Yet the act itself in its recitals says nothing of the sort. It says a high proportion of survivors are well beneath the poverty line, and that institutionalized living is particularly traumatic to them because it reminds them of concentration camps.

I find myself in an odd position of opposing this piece of legislation but having to knock down one silly argument after another against it in this thread.

 

[CanOWorms]

The people fitting under this bill is quite broad.

(B) was persecuted between 1933 and 1945 on the basis of race, religion, physical or mental disability, sexual orientation, political affiliation, ethnicity, or other basis;

This would include billions of people around the world at that time. Colonialism was going on and devastating the world in that era.

 

[iGas]

Only Jews who were born before 1945 and later emmigrated to the USA could be entitled to such a claim. As the link pointed out, a pool of only 127,000 people, and repapidly diminishing. As the people in that group would have to be at least 66 years of age, and already covered by Social security, medicade, and medicare.

Or should we in the USA throw away separation of church and State and declare judasism the official US State protected Religion? And watch the courts strike down those laws as totally unconstitutional?

But while we are at it, lets compensate all our African American's whose ansestors spend their whole lives in US slavery. A far larger class with a far more valid claim. At least we can't blame Germany for that one.

Don't forget the Mexican because of America annexation, or the Vietnamese, Iraqi, Afghanistan that had to flee their home land to the US. And, perhaps the under privileged Indian and Chinese as well.

I now see why America is heading for bankruptcy.

 

[iGas]

I never understood why the Holocaust is solely a "Jewish" tragedy. Granted that they were by far one of the biggest victims of the tragedy, the Holocaust resulted in the death of over 11mm (and up to 17mm) people, whereas the entire European population of the Jewish people was 9mm.

I agree that the target of systematic killing by the Nazis was primarily directed at the Jewish people. However, the usage of Holocaust to only describe the Jewish victims is a tradegy in itself.

World War II casualties

"World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history. Over 60 million people were killed. The tables below give a detailed country-by-country count of human losses."

"approximately six million European Jews during World War II"

Soviet Union death, 23,400,000
China death, 10,000,000 to 20,000,000
Germany death, 6,630,000 to 8,680,000
Poland death, 5,620,000 to 5,820,000
Indonesia (Dutch East Indies) death, 3,000,000 to 4,000,000
Japan death, 2,620,000 to 3,120,000
India (British) death, 1,587,000 to 2,587,000
Vietnam (French Indochina) death, 1,000,000 to 1,500,000
Yugoslavia death, 1,027,000
Philippines death, 557,000 to 1,057,000

I understand that 10% of the total death in WWII were Jewish martyrs, but milking society for it is 65 years too long.

 

[bfdd]

That's fine, but there is a straw man argument going on in this thread that is about rebutting the notion that America somehow owes them compensation. Yet the act itself in its recitals says nothing of the sort. It says a high proportion of survivors are well beneath the poverty line, and that institutionalized living is particularly traumatic to them because it reminds them of concentration camps.

I find myself in an odd position of opposing this piece of legislation but having to knock down one silly argument after another against it in this thread.

ah my bad then

 

[sarsipias1234]

If we give Jews reparations for past sins then shouldn't we offer reparations for every person that has had their basic human rights violate?

The blacks need reparations for slavery.

Africans need reparations for the genocide committed against them.

There are millions more human beings who have been murdured that are not Jewish.

What about these people?

 

[Infohawk]

If we give Jews reparations for past sins then shouldn't we offer reparations for every person that has had their basic human rights violate?

The blacks need reparations for slavery.

Africans need reparations for the genocide committed against them.

There are millions more human beings who have been murdured that are not Jewish.

What about these people?

Though I'm not that big of a fan of this legislation for the reasons I've mentioned earlier, a lot of your examples are not really comparable to the holocaust and you're not really understanding who is targeted here.

First of all, these aren't "reparations" to Jews. This is medical assistance to all living victims of the Holocaust. It's not going to children of holocaust survivors. No blacks alive today were slaves, so that's pretty irrelevant. Being murdered would mean you no longer even need medical care so I'm not sure where you're even going with that. Your closest comparison is to African victims of genocide although it's quite different in that they weren't killed with organized and industrial methods in such a way that they would not want to live in institutions.

 

[Freshgeardude]

The US government should compensate for the crimes/human rights violations that it committed itself, such as slavery and Japanese internment camps. Holocaust is not one of them, obviously.

The US government DID compensate for the Japanese internment camps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment#Reparations_and_redress

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Liberties_Act_of_1988

learn your history dumbass

 

[sarsipias1234]

nm

 

[JEDIYoda]

and you're obsessed with gorilla nuts. that's cool bro.
typical of you to attack me personally rather than comment on the article. stay classy infopigeon, lol




it would be cool if we didnt have WWII vets sleeping in the streets and getting denied basic health coverage. Americans first.

Please link to where the ww2 vets are sleeping in the streets with no health coverage.....

 

[Craig234]

If we give Jews reparations for past sins then shouldn't we offer reparations for every person that has had their basic human rights violate?

The blacks need reparations for slavery.

Africans need reparations for the genocide committed against them.

There are millions more human beings who have been murdured that are not Jewish.

What about these people?

I said before, it's not compensation, it's charity. It's not reparations. I think a case can be made we have racism involved in ignoring millions of Africans killed.