Holocaust-Era Diary Surfaces in Netherlands

[StageLeft]

It was truly horrific.

Such brutality does exist today though. The scale is small enough, normally, that we as a race (humanity) is used to it. Of course in the Sudan nobody wants to get involved.

I'd like to read this though. Reading what somebody wrote before something bad happened to them is incredibly interesting non-fiction. I don't mean to be nefearious with that either, but it's very real and visceral. I wish I could pretend that the nazis were a terribly evil creation that the world had never seen before, but it had seen the likes of their brutality, and it will surely again. Simply, humanity must evolve. Until then we can best parry such activities in the future with an eye to the past and vigilence of the present. Except in the Sudan, of course, so there goes that idea. Empathy is a virtue that mankind sorely lacks.

 

[adlep]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
It was truly horrific.

Such brutality does exist today though. The scale is small enough, normally, that we as a race (humanity) is used to it. Of course in the Sudan nobody wants to get involved.

I'd like to read this though. Reading what somebody wrote before something bad happened to them is incredibly interesting non-fiction. I don't mean to be nefearious with that either, but it's very real and visceral. I wish I could pretend that the nazis were a terribly evil creation that the world had never seen before, but it had seen the likes of their brutality, and it will surely again. Simply, humanity must evolve. Until then we can best parry such activities in the future with an eye to the past and vigilence of the present. Except in the Sudan, of course, so there goes that idea. Empathy is a virtue that mankind sorely lacks.

War is ina nature of human beings, unfortunately.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
It was truly horrific.

Such brutality does exist today though. The scale is small enough, normally, that we as a race (humanity) is used to it. Of course in the Sudan nobody wants to get involved.

I'd like to read this though. Reading what somebody wrote before something bad happened to them is incredibly interesting non-fiction. I don't mean to be nefearious with that either, but it's very real and visceral. I wish I could pretend that the nazis were a terribly evil creation that the world had never seen before, but it had seen the likes of their brutality, and it will surely again. Simply, humanity must evolve. Until then we can best parry such activities in the future with an eye to the past and vigilence of the present. Except in the Sudan, of course, so there goes that idea. Empathy is a virtue that mankind sorely lacks.

yes we have had such things happen and yes we will have them happen again. I don't think we will ever see it on the scale of WWII.


It just saddens me to see such BULLCRAP that is going on in this thread.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: imprezawrxwagon
My point exactly: Jewish Activists and people who side with them act like the only people that matter, the only people that should be remembered and supported are Jews. Apparently, other peoples do not matter. If somebody dares for a second to think that other peoples (who, btw, saved many Jews during WWII) matter, then he/she gets a rainfall of insults and personal attacks, hysteria and lies.

Haha. And you pretend not to have an agenda against Jews? It's either that or you have the worst understanding of logic on AT.

Let's see...

A = "Remembering/supporting one's own terrible history in WWII."
B = "Specifically trying to prevent other nationalities from being remembered/supported."
C = imprezawrxwagon

A is not equal to B.
C is a moron.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: waggy
It just saddens me to see such BULLCRAP that is going on in this thread.

That's the MO around here

 

[LennyZ]

Not denying the Holocaust happened but it's hard listening to people talking about the 6 million jews that died when alot more other people died during the war.

Casualties in WW2

Soviet Union 25,568,000
China 11,324,000
Germany 7,060,000
Poland 6,850,000
Japan 1,806,000
Yugoslavia 1,700,000
Rumania 985,000
France 810,000
USA 495,000
Austria 480,000
Italy 410,000
Great Britain 388,000
Holland 250,000
Belgium 85,000
Finland 79,000
Canada 42,000
India 36,000
Australia 29,000
Albania 28,000
Spain 22,000
Bulgaria 21,000
New Zealand 12,000
Norway 10,000
South Africa 9,000
Luxembourg 5,000
Denmark 4,000
TOTAL 58,508,000

 

[Brutuskend]

I guess the big difference there is of those statistics, how many were battle casualties, how many were "collateral damage" and how many were flat out murdered. The Jews and certain others (Gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally retarded etc.) had the distinction of having been singled out to be murdered. I don't think you can put them in the same category as KIA, or collateral damage victims.

 

[LennyZ]

dead is dead no matter how it happened.

 

[Eavan]

so...what does the majority of this thread have to do with it's original topic...."Holocaust-Era Diary Surfaces in Netherlands" ??

An unimaginable tragedy happened during World War II. Someone's mother, father, brother, sister, grandparents, aunts uncles and cousins died, either fighting for what they believed in or being brutally murdered, or attempting to save lives, or maybe they just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Jews, Gypsies, Chinese, Japanese, British, American, French, Polish, Dutch, other Eastern European, and yes even Germans. The Jews have a right to their sorrow and a right to remember what happened to their own people... If the Jews are more vocal about it, so what? Why are you here on ATOT in this stupid thread instead of informing the public about the tragedies that YOUR PEOPLE experienced--there are people out there that care, you know--they are just uninformed. It's common sense-- you crap on a thread about the Jews, YES you are going to get flamed, because as it has been said, the Jewish of the Holocaust is recognized by more people here than any other minority group. Yeah, it's unfair that other ethnicities don't get the attention the Jews received regarding the Holocaust, but the only way to change that is to bring attention to the story of what happened to your people in a civilized way, and NOT by name calling and/or complaining about those who have already made sure the story of their heritiage is heard.

 

[Iron Woode]

Adlep is correct.

Everyone is getting out of hand here.

Jews weren't the only ones targeted by the Nazis. Poles also got it very bad right from the start.

And, yes, my own relatives were specifically targeted too. I am of Ukranian descent and 99% of my European relatives were exterminated in Nazi concentration camps. They weren't collateral damage. They weren't killed in combat. They were singled out and murdered. They were not Jewish, but Russian Orthodox Christian. I have virtually no one to visit in the old country because we cannot find any living survivors or their offspring. I don't even know where to start looking.

I have great sympathy for all who died in WWII: soldiers and civilians. On both sides of the conflict.

Lets just keep our perspective clear and not fall into any "I'm right, you're wrong" nonsense.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
I guess the big difference there is of those statistics, how many were battle casualties, how many were "collateral damage" and how many were flat out murdered. The Jews and certain others (Gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally retarded etc.) had the distinction of having been singled out to be murdered. I don't think you can put them in the same category as KIA, or collateral damage victims.

yes, good god people are missing the point. the holocaust was horrifying because of its sheer efficiency, its systematic organization, the extermination of not some other country, but your own countrymen who happen to be of a minority. it wasn't casualties of war, or collateral damage in the persuit of domination, but extermination. quite different however you slice it. or else it all becomes meaningless. the casaulties caused by america and the allies by war or collateral damage become bad as nazi concentration camp deaths if one loses all ability to make distinctions.

 

[kermalou]

Originally posted by: imprezawrxwagon

Originally posted by: DBL
I find it pretty sad that someone felt the need to air their personal grudges against "Jewish Activists" in a thread devoted to the discovery of a journal belonging to a girl who, along with her family, were murdered solely b/c they were Jewish. It's takes a truly ignorant and misguided person to crap on a thread in this manner. You have to know when to pick your fights and I can't imagine a more inappropriate time to air your uninformed criticism.

What's interesting, is that I feel it is truly evil of said Jewish Activists to promote their agenda, soliciting money and support, while forgetting about other peoples. I can't imagine a more inappropriate way to "remind people of Holocaust" (which is a euphemism for extorting money and special privileges by sending others on a guilt trip).

now if your "people" who you have failed to mention, got off their asses and did something about it, maybe you wouldn't be so bitter.

I dont see your people talking about the Holocause or opening museums to talk about it. You just blame the Jews for everything dont you?

 

[kermalou]

on a side note, i hope you learn some facts when you try to go to law school, if you did pass the logical reasoning part of the LSAT

 

[oogabooga]

only in atot could this thread turn into a flame war... possibly in pn too i guess

Humanity at it's worst indeed....

 

[imprezawrxwagon]

Originally posted by: pulse8

Originally posted by: imprezawrxwagon

Originally posted by: Doboji
You know... I'm not done yet...

This thread was about a fvcking diary of a jewish girl who died... it wasn't about the poles who died... or the gypsies who died... or the Chinese who died... it was about ONE SINGLE DIARY... frankly none of this other crap discussion has any place in this thread...

Can we say T H R E A D C R A P P I N G

Go away... go find a nazi forum to troll in.... ya dumbfvck

My point exactly: Jewish Activists and people who side with them act like the only people that matter, the only people that should be remembered and supported are Jews. Apparently, other peoples do not matter. If somebody dares for a second to think that other peoples (who, btw, saved many Jews during WWII) matter, then he/she gets a rainfall of insults and personal attacks, hysteria and lies.

How you can think that you don't have something against Jewish people escapes me when you write stuff like that.

Now you're trying to make yourself out to be a victim for thinking about people other than the Jews and instead you're just a troll.

You came into this thread bashing Jews in a thread about a Jewish girl's diary that was found. This thread has NOTHING to do with anything else but that. YOU were the one who decided to come in here and start spouting off about how people have forgotten that others died in the war when in reality the original article HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

What is interesting, is that you have been lying through your teeth in this thread. Combined with your general hysteria and childish insults (well, when one has got no intellect, then lies and insults are the only option, I guess) it all adds up for a portrait of a wonderful person and a great debater.

Now, every time I point out a lie that you state, you quickly shut up (for the coward you are), never apologize (for neither lies nor insults) and make new lies.

Right now you are lying again (re-stating and repackaging your earlier lies, hoping they will pass inspection this time), about me supposedly "You came into this thread bashing Jews", while I clearly stated for the hysterical liars like yourself that while I do not approve of the actions of Jewish Activists, I have no problem with Jews as whole.

I'm really tired of your silly posts and posts of ignorant hysterical people like yourself, who know nothing of WWII and only lie and scream insults, frustrated at their own lack of intellect and knowledge.

ta-ta

 

[Amused]

Please, let's stop the flames.

Yes, the focus on the Jews is out of proportion to what happened. But to "blame" the jews is focusing on the wrong issue here.

The plight of the Jews in WWII Europe is so well known because the Jews have done a very good job at getting their story out. If you want the plight of others to be known, you need to do the same. Tearing at the Jews isn't going to lift your story up.

So please, EVERYONE. Stop flaming each other in this thread.

This thread is about a little girl who was murdered. Nothing more. All your flames do is crap on her memory.

 

[imprezawrxwagon]

The wagon is not very polite

This is great! Proves my point once again: zobmified by Jewish Activists, people in this thread, while demonstrating mostly total lack of knowledge about WWII, personally insult and attack me all the time, while I?m ?on my best behavior? and not calling anybody names, and, apparently, it is me, who is not the polite one.

Oh, I see ? so, it is perfectly OK now to personally insult and attack people, wish them death, if somebody dares to have an opinion of WWII different than what Jewish Activists dictate the world to think.

And what crime did I commit? In an adult manner presented my opinion. My opinion differs from that of some other people, so, apparently, it makes it ok to publicly attack me and wish me a horrible death. Yeah, way to remember Holocaust.

 

[Amused]

Stop the flames. ALL OF YOU.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: PanzerIV

Originally posted by: imprezawrxwagon
"Six million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, including some 100,000 from the Netherlands. "

So, what? When will Jewish activists stop running around whining about Holocaust?

So self centered, only think about themselves and now want the world to feel for them too.

I know you wanted a reaction to your trolling so I will give you one:


STFU asswipe. Maybe we'll be lucky and somebody will gas you or put you in an oven.

how is your response any better than his??

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: Amused
Please, let's stop the flames.

Yes, the focus on the Jews is out of proportion to what happened. But to "blame" the jews is focusing on the wrong issue here.

The plight of the Jews in WWII Europe is so well known because the Jews have done a very good job at getting their story out. If you want the plight of others to be known, you need to do the same. Tearing at the Jews isn't going to lift your story up.

So please, EVERYONE. Stop flaming each other in this thread.

This thread is about a little girl who was murdered. Nothing more. All your flames do is crap on her memory.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot over?!?!?!?!?!

The focus on the Jews is out of proportion to what happened? Has everyone completely lost their minds?!?!

Has everyone forgot what happened in WWII??? Adolf Hitler rose to power on the platform that the Aryan race was superior to all others and that the Jewish race was the reason for the suffering of the German people. He then proceeded to try to wipe out all Jews on the planet earth, and purify the Aryan race... This lead to an all out war, as Hitler attempted to conquer the entire planet. The Jews WERE THE MAIN TARGET of Hitler... and noone but a stupid monkey could deny this. Furthermore... when HAVE YOU EVER been to a holocaust museum that didn't take time to memorialize EVERYONE who died in the Holocaust... Jews, and non-jews alike... it would be ludicrous to portray the Jewish part of the Holocaust and the Polish part of the holocaust on equal footing... that would be pure unadulturated stupidity.

But this concept that the Holocaust is overstated is ridiculous... those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. I personally lost 50 family members to death camps, concentration camps, and medical experiments by the Nazis.. Am I overstating things?... My relatives were boiled alive in cauldrons of hot water. Jews were skinned, and there body parts used for lamp shades.... Jewish cemeteries were raided and the grave stones used as roads between death camps... Jews were packed WORSE than cattle onto rail trains and shipped off to camps were they were gassed to death. I'm sorry but I fail utterly to see how Jews are OVERSTATING the holocaust...

This whole thread sickens me deeply to the inner depths of my soul.... The fact that this thread began with an article about ONE GAWDAMN DIARY OF ONE JEWISH GIRL.... and began a tirade by fvcking idiots about jews wining about the holocaust.... WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF... and then the thread ends now with a compromise.... oh yes... perhaps you're right Jews are loud mouths about losing 6 million of our already meager population.... but that isn't the point...

WTF WTF WTF WTF....

This thread is sick beyond imagination... mr subaru guy... go to hell... I mean it... I hope you die alone, in pain and of cancer.... may you suffer great misery and pain... and may you never have good fortune :evil eye;

WTF WTF WTF WTF!!!!!!!

-Max

:shocked::thumbsdown::disgust::frown:

 

[zoiks]

People suffer everywhere there is war. Just like Bosnia, WWII, Armenia, Holocaust,Cambodia..the list sad to say is endless. We all bleed and we all suffer, we all die. Perhaps the enemy here is war and not which war.

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: imprezawrxwagon

Originally posted by: pulse8

Originally posted by: imprezawrxwagon

Originally posted by: Doboji
You know... I'm not done yet...

This thread was about a fvcking diary of a jewish girl who died... it wasn't about the poles who died... or the gypsies who died... or the Chinese who died... it was about ONE SINGLE DIARY... frankly none of this other crap discussion has any place in this thread...

Can we say T H R E A D C R A P P I N G

Go away... go find a nazi forum to troll in.... ya dumbfvck

My point exactly: Jewish Activists and people who side with them act like the only people that matter, the only people that should be remembered and supported are Jews. Apparently, other peoples do not matter. If somebody dares for a second to think that other peoples (who, btw, saved many Jews during WWII) matter, then he/she gets a rainfall of insults and personal attacks, hysteria and lies.

How you can think that you don't have something against Jewish people escapes me when you write stuff like that.

Now you're trying to make yourself out to be a victim for thinking about people other than the Jews and instead you're just a troll.

You came into this thread bashing Jews in a thread about a Jewish girl's diary that was found. This thread has NOTHING to do with anything else but that. YOU were the one who decided to come in here and start spouting off about how people have forgotten that others died in the war when in reality the original article HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

What is interesting, is that you have been lying through your teeth in this thread. Combined with your general hysteria and childish insults (well, when one has got no intellect, then lies and insults are the only option, I guess) it all adds up for a portrait of a wonderful person and a great debater.

Now, every time I point out a lie that you state, you quickly shut up (for the coward you are), never apologize (for neither lies nor insults) and make new lies.

Right now you are lying again (re-stating and repackaging your earlier lies, hoping they will pass inspection this time), about me supposedly "You came into this thread bashing Jews", while I clearly stated for the hysterical liars like yourself that while I do not approve of the actions of Jewish Activists, I have no problem with Jews as whole.

I'm really tired of your silly posts and posts of ignorant hysterical people like yourself, who know nothing of WWII and only lie and scream insults, frustrated at their own lack of intellect and knowledge.

ta-ta

and yet you haven't even told us who your people are?... you are the very definition of troll... and how the mods can allow this level of thread crapping to exist is beyond the scope of my understanding...

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: zoiks
People suffer everywhere there is war. Just like Bosnia, WWII, Armenia, Holocaust,Cambodia..the list sad to say is endless. We all bleed and we all suffer, we all die. Perhaps the enemy here is war and not which war.

We're not talking about a gawdamn war... we're talking ABOUT ONE GIRLS DIARY....

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: Amused
Please, let's stop the flames.

Yes, the focus on the Jews is out of proportion to what happened. But to "blame" the jews is focusing on the wrong issue here.

The plight of the Jews in WWII Europe is so well known because the Jews have done a very good job at getting their story out. If you want the plight of others to be known, you need to do the same. Tearing at the Jews isn't going to lift your story up.

So please, EVERYONE. Stop flaming each other in this thread.

This thread is about a little girl who was murdered. Nothing more. All your flames do is crap on her memory.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot over?!?!?!?!?!

The focus on the Jews is out of proportion to what happened? Has everyone completely lost their minds?!?!

Has everyone forgot what happened in WWII??? Adolf Hitler rose to power on the platform that the Aryan race was superior to all others and that the Jewish race was the reason for the suffering of the German people. He then proceeded to try to wipe out all Jews on the planet earth, and purify the Aryan race... This lead to an all out war, as Hitler attempted to conquer the entire planet. The Jews WERE THE MAIN TARGET of Hitler... and noone but a stupid monkey could deny this. Furthermore... when HAVE YOU EVER been to a holocaust museum that didn't take time to memorialize EVERYONE who died in the Holocaust... Jews, and non-jews alike... it would be ludicrous to portray the Jewish part of the Holocaust and the Polish part of the holocaust on equal footing... that would be pure unadulturated stupidity.

But this concept that the Holocaust is overstated is ridiculous... those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. I personally lost 50 family members to death camps, concentration camps, and medical experiments by the Nazis.. Am I overstating things?... My relatives were boiled alive in cauldrons of hot water. Jews were skinned, and there body parts used for lamp shades.... Jewish cemeteries were raided and the grave stones used as roads between death camps... Jews were packed WORSE than cattle onto rail trains and shipped off to camps were they were gassed to death. I'm sorry but I fail utterly to see how Jews are OVERSTATING the holocaust...

This whole thread sickens me deeply to the inner depths of my soul.... The fact that this thread began with an article about ONE GAWDAMN DIARY OF ONE JEWISH GIRL.... and began a tirade of fvcking idiots about jews wining about the holocaust.... WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF... and then the thread ends now with a compromise.... oh yes... perhaps you're right Jews are loud mouths about losing 6 million of our already meager population.... but that isn't the point...

WTF WTF WTF WTF....

This thread is sick beyond imagination... mr subaru guy... go to hell... I mean it... I hope you die alone, in pain and of cancer.... may you suffer great misery and pain... and may you never have good fortune :evil eye;

WTF WTF WTF WTF!!!!!!!

-Max

:shocked::thumbsdown::disgust::frown:

The Jews weren't the only people targeted by the Nazis. My point does NOT detract from their suffering in any way. It simply states a fact.

The story of the Jews was largely ignored until the early 70s when Jewish organizations brought it to the public's attention with large education campaigns. Other people who suffered under the nazis should do the same. THAT was my point. It's not a bad thing for the Jews to actively get their story out. But it's a sad thing that the other groups haven't gathered together to do the same.

Please STOP flaming. You accomplish nothing but more animosity

 

[zoiks]

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: zoiks
People suffer everywhere there is war. Just like Bosnia, WWII, Armenia, Holocaust,Cambodia..the list sad to say is endless. We all bleed and we all suffer, we all die. Perhaps the enemy here is war and not which war.

We're not talking about a gawdamn war... we're talking ABOUT ONE GIRLS DIARY....

Replying to the tone to which this thread has taken.