Hollywood whitewash of history in "Black Hawk Down"?

Koba1t

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Jul 26, 2001
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I read this article and i found it quite interesting. The part about the oil companies i'm not so sure about, but i did get the feeling that humanitarianism was just a smokescreen for our involvement in Somalia when it was happening. Also, Bruckheimer is involved, so we HAVE to question it's legitimacy ;)

""Black Hawk Down" ? Hollywood drags bloody corpse of truth
across movie screens
By Larry Chin
January 3, 2002 -- True to its post-9/11
government-sanctioned role as US war propaganda
headquarters, Hollywood has released "Black Hawk Down," a
fictionalized account of the tragic 1993 US raid in Somalia. The
Pentagon assisted with the production, pleased for an
opportunity to "set the record straight." The film is a lie that
compounds the original lie that was the operation itself.

Somalia: the facts

According to the myth, the Somalia operation of 1993 was a
humanitarian mission, and a shining example of New World Order
morality and altruism. In fact, US and UN troops waged an
undeclared war against an Islamic African populace that was
hostile to foreign interests.

Also contrary to the legend, the 1993 Somalia raid was not a
"Clinton foreign policy bungle." In fact, the incoming Clinton
administration inherited an operation that was already in full
swing -- planned and begun by outgoing President George
Herbert Walker Bush, spearheaded by deputy national security
adviser Jonathan Howe (who remained in charge of the UN
operation after Clinton took office), and approved by Colin
Powell, then head of the Joint Chiefs.

The operation had nothing to do with humanitarianism or
Africa-love on the part of Bush or Clinton. Several US oil
companies, including Conoco, Amoco, Chevron and Phillips were
positioned to exploit Somalia's rich oil reserves. The companies
had secured billion-dollar concessions to explore and drill large
portions of the Somali countryside during the reign of pro-US
President Mohamed Siad Barre. (In fact, Conoco's Mogadishu
office housed the US embassy and military headquarters.) A
"secure" Somalia also provided the West with strategic location
on the coast of Arabian Sea.

UN military became necessary when Barre was overthrown by
warlord Mohammed Farrah Aidid, suddenly rendering Somalia
inhospitable to US corporate interests.

Although the pretext for the mission was to safeguard food
shipments, and stop the "evil Aidid" from stealing the food, the
true UN goal was to remove Aidid from the political equation,
and form a pro-Western coalition government out of the
nation's warring clans. The US operation was met with
"surprisingly fierce resistance" -- surprising to US officials who
underestimated Somalian resolve, and even more surprising to
US troops who were victims and pawns of UN policy makers.

The highly documented series by Mark Bowden of the
Philadelphia Inquirer on which the film is based , focuses on the
participants, and the "untenable" situation in which troops were
placed. But even Bowden's gung-ho account makes no bones
about provocative American attacks that ultimately led to the
decisive defeat in Mogadishu.

Bowden writes: "Task Force Ranger was not in Mogadishu to
feed the hungry. Over six weeks, from late August to Oct. 3, it
conducted six missions, raiding locations where either Aidid or
his lieutenants were believed to be meeting. The mission that
resulted in the Battle of Mogadishu came less than three
months after a surprise missile attack by U.S. helicopters
(acting on behalf of the UN) on a meeting of Aidid clansmen.
Prompted by a Somalian ambush on June 5 that killed more than
20 Pakistani soldiers, the missile attack killed 50 to 70 clan
elders and intellectuals, many of them moderates seeking to
reach a peaceful settlement with the United Nations. After that
July 12 helicopter attack, Aidid's clan was officially at war with
America -- a fact many Americans never realized."

Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Somalis were killed in the
course of US incursions that took place over three months. In
his book The New Military Humanism, Noam Chomsky cites other
under-reported facts. "In October 1993, criminal incompetence
by the US military led to the slaughter of 1,000 Somalis by
American firepower." Chomsky writes. "The official estimate was
6-10,000 Somali casualties in the summer of 1993 alone,
two-thirds women and children. Marine Lt. Gen. Anthony Zinni,
who commanded the operation, informed the press that 'I'm not
counting bodies . . . I'm not interested.' Specific war crimes of
US forces included direct military attacks on a hospital and on
civilian gatherings. Other Western armies were implicated in
serious crimes as well. Some of these were revealed at an
official Canadian inquiry, not duplicated by the US or other
governments."

Bowden's more forgiving account does not contradict
Chomsky's in this regard:

"Official U.S. estimates of Somalian casualties at the time
numbered 350 dead and 500 injured. Somalian clan leaders
made claims of more than 1,000 deaths. The United Nations
placed the number of dead at ``between 300 to 500.'' Doctors
and intellectuals in Mogadishu not aligned with the feuding
clans say that 500 dead is probably accurate.

The attack on Mogadishu was particularly vicious. Quoting
Bowden: "The Task Force Ranger commander, Maj. Gen. William
F. Garrison, testifying before the Senate, said that if his men
had put any more ammunition into the city 'we would have sunk
it.' Most soldiers interviewed said that through most of the fight
they fired on crowds and eventually at anyone and anything
they saw."

After 18 US Special Forces soldiers were killed in the final
Mogadishu firefight, which included the downing of a US
helicopter, television screens filled with the scene of a dead US
soldier being dragged through the streets by jubilant Somalis.
Clinton immediately called off the operation. US forces left
Somalia in disgrace. Some 19,000 UN troops remained for a
short period, but eventually left in futility.

The Somalia defeat elicited howls of protest and rage from the
military brass, congressional hawks, and right-wing
provocateurs itching for an excuse to declare political war on
the "liberal" Clinton administration.

The "Somalia syndrome" would dog Clinton throughout his
presidency, and mar every military mission during his tenure.

Today, as right-wing extremist George W. Bush occupies the
White House, surrounded by his father's operatives, and many
of the architects of the original raid, military fanaticism is all
the rage. A global war "without end" has just begun.

What a perfect moment to "clean up" the past.

Hollywood to the rescue

In promoting the film, producer Jerry Bruckheimer (who rewrote
another humiliating episode of US military history with "Pearl
Harbor") is seeking to convince Americans that the Somalia
operation was "not America's darkest hour, but America's
brightest hour;" that a bungled imperialist intervention was a
noble incident of grand moral magnificence.

CNN film reviewer Paul Tatara describes "Black Hawk Down" as
"pound for pound, one of the most violent films ever released
by a major studio," from "two of the most pandering, tactless
filmmakers in Hollywood history (Jerry Bruckheimer and Ridley
Scott)" who are attempting to "teach us about honor among
soldiers."

More important are the film's true subtexts, and the likely
emotional reaction of viewers.

What viewers see is "brave and innocent young American boys"
getting shot at and killed for "no reason" by "crazy black
Islamists" that the Americans are "just trying to help." (Subtext
one: America is good, and it is impossible to understand why
"they hate us." Subtext two: "Those damned ungrateful
foreigners." Subtext three: "Those damned blacks." Subtext
four: "Kill Arabs.")

What viewers will remember is a line spoken by one of the
"brave soldiers" about how, in the heat of combat, "politics
goes out the window." (Subtext one: there is no need for
thought; shoot first, talk later. Subtext two: it is right to
abandon one's sanity, morality and ethics when faced with
chaos. Subtext three: when the Twin Towers went down on
9/11, America was right in embracing radical militarism and
extreme violence, throwing all else "out the window.")

In the currently lethal political climate, in which testosterone
rage, mob mentality, and love of war pass for normal behavior
(while reason, critical thinking, and tolerance are considered
treasonous), "Black Hawk Down" will appeal to the most violent
elements of American society. Many who have seen the film
report leaving the theater feeling angry, itching to "kick some
ass." In short, the film is dangerous. And those who "love" it
are dangerous.

Considering the fact that Somalia is one of the targets in the
next phase of the Bush administration's "war on terrorism," the
timing of the film is no coincidence.

As Herbert London of the Hudson Institute said of "Black Hawk
Down," "I would never deny the importance of heroism in battle,
but just as we should recognize and honor heroes, we should
also respect the truthfulness of the events surrounding their
heroic acts. In the case of 'Black Hawk Down,' we get a lot of
the former and almost nothing of the latter."
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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Chompsky's opinions are questionable to say the least, though I have no doubt that Hollywood would buggar this movie up to a degree. I've read the book but not seen the movie so I have to reserve my judgement I suppose.
 

pulse8

Lifer
May 3, 2000
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I would imagine that the movie isn't completely accurate, but they only have 2 hours and it's not a documentary. They are just trying to tell the best story possible.
 

areohbe

Banned
Oct 14, 2001
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sure it may not be exactly historically accurate, but i think filmmakers have to balance the thin line between being accurate to the actual events and what the audience would want to see
 

Koba1t

Member
Jul 26, 2001
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Yeah, but with Pearl Harbor, most reasonable people saw past the obvious bullsh*t and knew that it was historically innacurate. However, with "Black Hawk Down", I think most people are going to think it's an accurate depiction of what really happened. Also, I think it's an exploitive movie preying on the 'patriotism' in America right now.
 

kamiam

Banned
Dec 12, 1999
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<< I would imagine that the movie isn't completely accurate, but they only have 2 hours and it's not a documentary. They are just trying to tell the best story possible. >>

more likely they are trying to get the biggest bang for thier buck so they can make as much $$$ as possible...not tell the "best story possible" like politicians, they could care less about the truth or "best story" unless the best story made the most $$$
 
Apr 5, 2000
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<< Hollywood has released "Black Hawk Down," a fictionalized account of the tragic 1993 US raid in Somalia >>



I don't see the problem here. All "based on true stories" have been fictionalized/dramatized to some extent.
 

edjam

Golden Member
May 3, 2001
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That's nothing knew. U - 571 a few years back had US men capturing the German Enigma machine, despite in reality, a few British sailors captured it, not Americans, helping the Allies greatly during the war.
 

pulse8

Lifer
May 3, 2000
20,860
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<< Yeah, but with Pearl Harbor, most reasonable people saw past the obvious bullsh*t and knew that it was historically innacurate. However, with "Black Hawk Down", I think most people are going to think it's an accurate depiction of what really happened. Also, I think it's an exploitive movie preying on the 'patriotism' in America right now. >>



Sure people will think it's actually what happened. With Pearl Harbor, people knew it was a fictional movie based on a non-fictional event much like Titanic. I don't really see how that's the filmmaker's fault, though. Their job is to make the best film with the most compelling story in a case like this. They always used the words, "Based on a true story." It doesn't mean that it's completely accurate, it means that their film gets it's base story from actual events.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
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<<

<< Hollywood has released "Black Hawk Down," a fictionalized account of the tragic 1993 US raid in Somalia >>



I don't see the problem here. All "based on true stories" have been fictionalized/dramatized to some extent.
>>

Depends the extent. I'm not saying I'd act differently in the same context but among the armed people that US forces killed they also mowed down dozens or hundreds or innocents who had no weapons but were just being stupid and hanging around. I wonder if the movie has the part where a guy with a .50 cal machine gun recklessly fires into a crowd because some are armed and some are not? Again, not sure I'd act differently, but it's hard to feel patriotic watching it if it's in the movie.
 

pulse8

Lifer
May 3, 2000
20,860
1
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<< more likely they are trying to get the biggest bang for thier buck so they can make as much $$$ as possible...not tell the "best story possible" >>



Are you kidding me?? If they have a bad story, then no one will watch! They are trying to get the biggest bang for their buck. They are a business after all.
 

cappsa

Senior member
Sep 14, 2000
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Oh come on now. We're talking about another Jerry Bruckheimer movie. I still want to see it, but I don't expect it to be accurate at all.
 

no0b

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2001
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Yes the soldiers shot into the crowds because they were scared and did not know who was shooting at them. I would have more than likely done the same thing :disgust: and if you were placed in the same situation I think you would have to.
 

Koba1t

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Jul 26, 2001
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The whole point is, the movie is deceptive in what it leaves out about the war. It paints the whole involvement as being a just cause when in fact it wasn't (or at least, it wasn't so clear). In the trailers and previews, you see Somali civilians in the street cheering on the soldiers. Do they show the soldiers killing the civilians? I think there's something wrong with Hollywood if they have to deceive the public in order to make big $$. It blinds us to the truth. Quite frankly, if they made a documentary of it that was historically accurate, how many people would see it? The majority would rather see the big hollywood release because, "it's more exciting, it's patriotic". I think it's sick.
 

pulse8

Lifer
May 3, 2000
20,860
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<< The whole point is, the movie is deceptive in what it leaves out about the war. It paints the whole involvement as being a just cause when in fact it wasn't (or at least, it wasn't so clear). In the trailers and previews, you see Somali civilians in the street cheering on the soldiers. Do they show the soldiers killing the civilians? I think there's something wrong with Hollywood if they have to deceive the public in order to make big $$. It blinds us to the truth. Quite frankly, if they made a documentary of it that was historically accurate, how many people would see it? The majority would rather see the big hollywood release because, "it's more exciting, it's patriotic". I think it's sick. >>



I think you're confused. Once again, because it's NOT a documentary, they aren't in the business of making a completely accurate film. They are in the business of making the most compelling story possible. If that includes changing history, then fine because it wouldn't be the first time. They aren't doing this to make more money directly, they are doing it to make the best film possible and that makes them money. No one would see it if it were a documentary because the general public just flat out doesn't watch documentaries. They see movies to escape from their reality, not expose it further.
 

Rudee

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
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Well, the real William Wallace wasn't the person he was portraid in Braveheart. The real William Wallace killed many countless women and children, but the movie certainly didn't show that.
 

no0b

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2001
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My other question is if there was gun fire wouldn't the crowds be trying to run away from the shots. If they stayed there what do you think they were doing either they were shoting, throwing rocks and other stuff, or yelling anti American words. In a combat situation I think everything will turn black and white there is no gray zone so the civilians fighting were open game. At least in thier minds. When in reality they are some where in the gray zone. But since not many if any of us have ever been in a combat situation your fight or flight instints turn on and everything goes black and white due to the adrenalie sp? and fear. But more importantly when you see the guy next to you having a 7.62mm whole in this skull from an ak you will know what to do.
suddenly I don't feel like play cs right now:(
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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One does not go into a Jerry Bruckheimer movie looking for historically accurate, intricate, and bullet proof plot.

One sees a Jerry Bruckheimer movie for excellent action scenes and a good ochestrated soundtrack.
 

Maetryx

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2001
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<< Today, as right-wing extremist George W. Bush occupies the
White House....
>>


Give me a God damned break. That's the stupidest label I've ever seen. George W. Bush won the primary election over 14 other Republican hopefuls because he was the *LEAST* extreme, i.e. the most mainstream, moderate candidate.

The writer of the article makes that classic error of all media critics: a belief that OTHERS will be highly affected by a piece of media, even though it doesn't have such affect on the critic. Think about it. This entire article is the shrill left wing trying to paint the right wing as mindlessly violent.

To be honest, if we were in Somalia for oil interests, that doesn't shock or upset me. I like that reason better than the lie that we showed up to distribute food. Now *that* would be ridiculous. Our soldiers ought not to be deployed as peace keepers. They are not trained in keeping peace. If there was a vialbe US interest in Somalia, then I breathe a sigh of relief.
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
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What a ridiculous piece of non-journalism sprinkled with allegations posing as facts. I love the concrete statements based on innuendo, and the book quotes taken out of context to prove alleged conditions. Truly a solid piece of conspiracy theory.

Mogadishu didn't go far enough in smashing those little bastards. Clinton's fault in the affair was denying the shipment of heavy armor into the theater, which would have greatly aided the relief column from the 10th Mountain Div, which had to make do with Humvees, 2 1/2s, and possibly Bradleys (not sure about the IFVs though).

That's nothing knew. U - 571 a few years back had US men capturing the German Enigma machine, despite in reality, a few British sailors captured it, not Americans, helping the Allies greatly during the war.

When in actuality, it was the POLISH who intially captured an Enigma in 1939 and gave the British their information prior to the German invasion which led to the British actually deciphering the full Enigma code. Without that information, the Brit crypto folks would never have cracked the code (the Germans added an additional wheel to the code machine, which rendered the Polish ability to read Enigma messages outdated, though the schematics were essential in figuring out that last wheel). I am sick and tired of the Brits ignoring history and taking the glory. Source? A book called Military Intelligence Blunders, written by a British colonel (don't have my copy handy, can't recall his name).
 

DVeditor2k2

Member
Jan 7, 2002
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I've seen the film (it's on limited release in LA and NY). I have not read the book. The film really doesn't have a "story" to it. It has a very documentary feel. There is 15-20min of dialogue in the begining to set it up, 5-10 at the end, and 2hrs of combat in between. There are no central characters or anything. We jump between fire fights, to more fire fights, to the convoy<sp?> of US hummers and trucks, to the crashed choppers, to the command center, and back to more fire fights. This isn't like Pearl Harbor where we see a historical event unfold thru the eyes of fictional characters. This is like CNN had an @ss load of camera crews w/the Rangers and Delta Force members and someone edited the footage into a chronological sequence.

When you walk out of this movie you will not feel good (at least I didn't). It's not like Saving Private Ryan where you feel moved, saddned, yet uplifted and patriotic all at the same time.


DV

EDIT: Everyone keeps toss around Bruckheimer's<sp?> name and expecting bad stuff (just like I was) but don't forget that Ridley Scott directed this film, and it is much, much a Scott film than a Bruckheimer film (if Bruckheimer's name wasn't in the credits I never would have guessed he had anything to do w/this film).
 

Kanalua

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2001
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Do believe everything you read? Go study this one from a reputable source.

We should've stayed in Somalia and did what we did to the Taliban, to the Warlords who organized this act or terrorism...hey, maybe we would've creamed bin Laden then...
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
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Sorry Koba1t, I quit reading your post as soon as I saw the author quoted Noam Chomsky. That removes all credibility as far as I'm concerned. The bottom line here is that many people lost their lives. Two men were awarded the Medal of Honor and a third maybe should have been awarded. The whole situation was very tragic.

P.S. When the Medals were given to the families, the USA today published the story on page 3. It was about a 2 inch story. When I asked them why via e-mail, they replied that it wasn't "newsworthy" enough to make the front page. I haven't so much as glanced at that paper since.
 

Koba1t

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Jul 26, 2001
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Look, i'm not agreeing with the WHOLE report, but i'm convinced enough to decide that we shouldn't have been involved in Somalia in the first place. To the person who said they saw the movie, did they show US troops shooting into the crowds of innocent people?
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
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575
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<< Also, I think it's an exploitive movie preying on the 'patriotism' in America right now. >>

Nevermind production began two years ago...and its release date was on schedule. Maybe the Vast Right Wing Bush/Cheney (or was it the Mossad?) Oil Conspiracy had Hollywood accomplices?

<< The whole point is, the movie is deceptive in what it leaves out about the war. >>

The whole point is, combat veterans FROM Somolia have given it a thumbs up with respect to the reality of that war. Who am I to believe about what war really is about, wounded Army Rangers who were engaged in the worse fire-fight involving US soldiers since Vietnam...or you (who was probably sucking his thumb or playing Duke Nukem when 18 Rangers were getting shot to ribbons)? LMAO!

<< It paints the whole involvement as being a just cause when in fact it wasn't (or at least, it wasn't so clear). In the trailers and previews, you see Somali civilians in the street cheering on the soldiers. Do they show the soldiers killing the civilians? I think there's something wrong with Hollywood if they have to deceive the public in order to make big $$. It blinds us to the truth. >>

The story portrayed adheres to the truth. A Somali isn't a Somali isn't a Somali. I know all those blacks look alike to you, but not all Somalis were against the US. Many Somalis, the ones who were being MURDERED and STARVED en mass before the US arrived, were happy to see US soldiers. THOSE were the Somalis we were there to protect.

See, there are opposing sides to every conflict. We killed thousands of members of the warring factions we were there to oppose and those who sympathized with and aided them. It should come as no surprise, then, that these were the Somalis who were opposed to the US presence. Boo hoo, that's what you do in a conflict - kill the opposition or aggressor. Questions?