Hole-picking the Alien movies and general pedantry within

[mikeymikec]

@Mike ..

no.

im being totally honest now, i don not want to offend you. i'm being categorical because, like many here, im obsessive-compulsive, and i have weighted the possibility and the the answer is just no.
IF the pod is damaged, ripley would either awake or die. she is in crysleep, breaking a pod would most likely result in her death, but if not, then she would awake.

Hmm, that's a lot of assertions regarding a fictional technology Make assertions and logical assumptions based on what the material provides.

The xeno who impregnated her - ASSUMING IT CAN - would likely do it right away, as it cannot guess when the ship will crash, does not understand this, and is essentially a - very smart - animal who would act on instinct.

Which it did.

the pod MUST break ONLY when the ship crashes. this is the only way that ripley can survive the journey, because of the time involved in any space flight, she must be in cryo until the crash and then by luck the pod breaks and she is thrown out.

Again, this isn't what happened in the film.

The opening scenes of the film in glorious sub-HD quality, in chronological order:

Acid burn that causes the smoke detector to go off:

Smoke detector going off:

"Stasis interrupted, fire in cryogenic compartment":

Face-hug x-ray:

Another face-hug x-ray:

Ripley having something seizure-ish, shot of broken cryo-tube:

Ripley being transported to escape pod, shot of broken cryo-tube:

Xenos have their own life cycle, and Queens lay eggs. drones do not.
The CUT scene in Alien which shows .. Dallas (?) cooconed, just means the drone cooconed him, in order for a facehugger to implant him. They are animals. They act on instinct.

Again, the source material begs to differ:

https://youtu.be/Y6dSIMFo7iU?t=159

Brett, face-bugged with an open egg in front of him.

Please note that I'm not saying that the source material gives good explanations or plausible plot lines, I'm just saying what's there.

 

[Ichinisan]

I'd like to wipe the third movie from existence.

Anyway, I actually like when people talk about movies in the movie thread. This is no exception.

 

[mikeymikec]

I'd like to wipe the third movie from existence.

It definitely has issues. 'The Godfather Part 3' has issues too. However, there are plenty of films that these two are far better than, and I'll watch either of these from time to time. I'd class them as enjoyable flicks, and not great movies by any stretch of the imagination.

'Alien: Resurrection' on the other hand... urgh. Also, that director's cut scene from Alien with the cocooning is a scene I pretend doesn't exist when I'm enjoying the film.

 

[ImpulsE69]

You can't use that Dallas scene as example because it isn't canon. Initially they were going to make it that the Alien (any because queens/hives didn't exist at that point) turned some of its victims INTO eggs/facehuggers. This scene was supposed to be that metamorphasis happening. This was supposed to make the creature even more mysterious and scary because it meant you didn't just die.

They decided to drop that plot point, and that led to Cameron's additions about where the eggs came from.

As for Alien 3 opening scene. Don't over analyze it. The movie was not put together well, but the cryochamber breaking doesn't mean she would die. We don't actually know HOW the chamber works so we don't really know what would happen exactly if that process is skipped. It would be very plausible that she would just wake up....albeit probably slowly since the normal process isn't followed. I had always assumed that the facehugger had actually broken the cryo glass getting to Ripley, thus cutting itself and causing the rest to happen. However, even this is a shaky idea because I also always assumed facehuggers were attracted by motion. Since Ripley doesn't actually know she's been impregnated, that means she was still unconcious when it happened and wouldn't have been moving. This would make you think that they are actually attracted by infrared and/or even breathing in some way.

Alien 3 is probably my least favorite, but I still watch it from time to time. I do really like Alien Resurrection actually. I suppose because it kind of has that Firefly feel to it.

 

[mikeymikec]

You can't use that Dallas scene as example because it isn't canon.

It's in the director's cut, which is available for sale through normal channels. Would you argue that any discussion regarding elements of Bladerunner isn't canon unless they were in the original theatrical cut?

I would agree with you if that scene was only in the 'deleted scenes' reel, and frankly I am surprised that it ended up in the director's cut, but hey ho. A director's cut pretty much by definition is how the director wanted the film to originally be but had to cut for say time or that a scene didn't come across well with test audiences.

 

[TheELF]

cryo=cold it's like leaving your fridge door open,it will still refrigerate your food but not as well and or using much more power.

 

[ImpulsE69]

It's in the director's cut, which is available for sale through normal channels. Would you argue that any discussion regarding elements of Bladerunner isn't canon unless they were in the original theatrical cut?

I would agree with you if that scene was only in the 'deleted scenes' reel, and frankly I am surprised that it ended up in the director's cut, but hey ho. A director's cut pretty much by definition is how the director wanted the film to originally be but had to cut for say time or that a scene didn't come across well with test audiences.

Yes, because they've said repeatedly that it isn't canon. It was included after the 25th anniversary as a deleted scene, to goad people into buying yet another version. I believe that scene had always been in cluded in the deleted scenes of the Laserdisc version, thus why it was known about years before it hit the DC version.
It is possible that in future iterations, they could go back to that process in some way, but I doubt that will happen. Ridley probably still likes the idea and included it because it was something new to the majority, but Cameron kind of threw it out since it wasn't included at the time. Of course on the flip side, the same could be said about the turret scene in Aliens, but that can be taken or left out and doesn't affect the overall franchise as that Dallas scene can. IIRC Ridley also did not like that Cameron made that change.

That being said, I have no idea if in the comics/books this particular metamorphasis is ever touched on again. There is definitely a case where you could say 'in lack of queen, this happens'.

Sorry, I'm a bit of a Alien fanatic.

 

[DigDog]

i'm well aware that the "explanation" is in the film, i'm however pointing out that these are impossible from a realistic point of view, exactly like the xeno surviving a molten-lead bath.

@ichi, the reason why Adam can dip his finger in the liquid .. is because there is no contact between the lead and the finger. The skin oils and water form a very brief barrier. The metal is also extremely viscous and thus tends to deform rather than adhere. You cannot hold your finger there for any amount of time, i.e. you cannot fall into a bath of molten lead (as it happens in the film) and jump out dripping of lead (as it happens in the film). You couldn't even JUMP OUT due to the weight of the lead, much less. .. aww you know what, forget it. Sure, you can bathe in molten lead and you'll be fine.
"The Leidenfrost effect is a physical phenomenon in which a liquid, in near contact with a mass significantly hotter than the liquid's boiling point, produces an insulating vapor layer keeping that liquid from boiling rapidly."

 

[mikeymikec]

Yes, because they've said repeatedly that it isn't canon.

I'm not doubting you, but do you have a source for that? I'm just interested.

It was included after the 25th anniversary as a deleted scene, to goad people into buying yet another version. I believe that scene had always been in cluded in the deleted scenes of the Laserdisc version, thus why it was known about years before it hit the DC version.

Yup, I first saw it on the DVD in the deleted scenes, then in the BR version it has both the DC and theatrical cut.

 

[ImpulsE69]

i'm well aware that the "explanation" is in the film, i'm however pointing out that these are impossible from a realistic point of view, exactly like the xeno surviving a molten-lead bath.

Then there is no discussion to have. It's a movie. That's the only explanation that fits whatever you are looking for. Since I am almost positive you've never met a Xeno, I'm going to assume you really have no way to prove or disprove that it could survive a molten-lead bath. We know they don't like fire..that's about it.

It's kind of like this. "We've never met an alien, therefore having movies about aliens cannot be taken seriously because it isn't real science." Just shuddup and enjoy the movie

 

[ImpulsE69]

I'm not doubting you, but do you have a source for that? I'm just interested.

I could swear that it was talked about at length in the blu-ray version comments and extras, but I think there were some interviews with Giger and Ridley and Cameron in the past talking about it as well. The scene itself was cut due to pacing issues, but it was in the novel that was released with the movie. I'm not really clear if Cameron knew of this scene or not when he conceived the queen.

The idea of the queen makes more sense overall because even in Alien, the room of eggs looks like a cultivation (statis area) like they had been farmed.

I did find this, but it's the first time I've seen this take on it:
Quotes from Ridley Scott seem to imply that Eggmorphing actually involves the human 'host' serving simply as a source of nutrients or 'yolk' for the growing Egg, rather than physically becoming the Egg itself, as is typically assumed.[9]

 

[TheELF]

We know they don't like fire..that's about it.

Just shuddup and enjoy the movie

We know they have acid as blood (Bad motherbuggers)
and we know their skullcaps make excellent shields.
We also know that lead melts at just 327,5 °C and that's just about half the temp of an open charcoal fire.
It's like being surprised that an exo can jump through a campfire without being burned.

 

[ImpulsE69]

We know they have acid as blood (Bad motherbuggers)
and we know their skullcaps make excellent shields.
We also know that lead melts at just 327,5 °C and that's just about half the temp of an open charcoal fire.
It's like being surprised that an exo can jump through a campfire without being burned.

I just meant that we don't know how weak they are against heat/fire. We know they don't LIKE fire, but we also know they can withstand extremes and I don't think in any instance that a flame thrower actually burned them. Sure we can pick it apart and be like THERE"S NO WAY IT WOULD SURVIVE THAT!, but..it's a movie, and a creature that isn't real..I mean..its nitpicking at that point. It is clear that the characters were also surprised it survived it.

 

[DigDog]

But in practice it's like that. Part of the storytelling process is to make it believable to the viewer .. if you decide to end a Superman film by having Otis punch Superman so hard that Superman dies, people are gonna be angry. Because the frame of reference that the superman films have chosen have depicted that character in a way where it cannot do that.

"ooh, but it was Wednesday - this happened on Thursday. Otis is super-strong on Thursday"


You know the scene in Alien 4, where the acid blood dissolves *only* the floor of the cell, but not the walls? (this was a importantly bad scene, because it happens early on and it's the first signal of how the film is gonna suck)
Well, the same WHY NOT applies to that scene. You don't need to follow the rules you have set yourself .. but people will think your film is bad if you don't.

 

[John Connor]

CALL OUT THREAD. Ban 4 life.

sudo end-madness end


LOL