Holder: 9/11 suspects to face military tribunals

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
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Apparently Bush was right after all. Oh and they couldn't even get a Congressional repeal even when starting off with a Dem dominated Congress and Senate? Shocking! No not really.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/04/04/state/n091511D98.DTL


Holder: 9/11 suspects to face military tribunals

(04-04) 18:46 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) --

Yielding to political opposition, the Obama administration gave up Monday on trying avowed 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four alleged henchmen in civilian federal court in New York and will prosecute them instead before military commissions.

The families of those killed in the Sept. 11 attacks have waited almost a decade for justice, and "it must not be delayed any longer," Attorney General Eric Holder told a news conference at the Justice Department.

In November 2009, Holder had announced the plan for a New York trial blocks from where the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks destroyed the World Trade Center. That idea was thwarted by widespread opposition from Republicans and even some Democrats, particularly in New York.

Congress passed legislation that prohibits bringing any detainees from the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to the United States.

Monday, the attorney general called those congressional restrictions unwise and unwarranted and said a legislative body cannot make prosecutorial decisions.

Although President Barack Obama made a campaign pledge to close the U.S. military prison in Cuba, Holder indicated that isn't going to happen any time soon because of congressional restrictions.

"We must face a simple truth: those restrictions are unlikely to be repealed in the immediate future," Holder said.

Even though closing the Guantanamo jail remains the administration's formal goal, White House press secretary Jay Carney said Obama supported Holder's decision to move the 9/11 trial from a civilian court to military tribunals.

Most Republicans applauded the turnabout, but Holder said he is still convinced that his earlier decision was the right one. The Justice Department had been prepared to bring "a powerful case" in civilian court, he said. Penalties for terrorists in civilian trials have so far been harsher than those decreed by military commissions.

In New York on Monday, the government unsealed an indictment that outlined its case. It charged Mohammed and the others with 10 counts relating to the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. The indictment said that in late August 2001, as the terrorists in the United States made final preparations, Mohammed was notified about the date of the attack and relayed that to al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden.

The Justice Department got a judge to dismiss the indictment Monday because of the change in trial plans.

Some 9/11 family members applauded the change to military trials.

"We're delighted," said Alexander Santora, 74, father of deceased firefighter Christopher A. Santora. The father called the accused terrorists "demonic human beings, they've already said that they would kill us if they could, if they got the chance they would do it again."

Nancy Nee, whose firefighter brother George Cain died at the World Trade Center, said that the five men are "war criminals as far as I'm concerned and I think that a military trial is the right thing to do."

But Senate Judiciary Committee chairman Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., said he is disappointed with the decision. "I believe that our justice system, which is the envy of the world, is more than capable of trying high-profile terrorism and national security cases," said Leahy.

Republican lawmakers welcomed the shift.

"It's unfortunate that it took the Obama administration more than two years to figure out what the majority of Americans already know: that 9/11 conspirator Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is not a common criminal, he's a war criminal," said House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith of Texas.

Sen. Jeff Sessions of Alabama, the ranking Republican senator on Judiciary, said the president's "improvident campaign pledge to shutter Gitmo was built on the naive premise that softening America's image would somehow soften our enemies' resolve." Sessions called Holder's announcement a "retreat" and said he hopes it marks "a real policy change from President Obama."

The American Civil Liberties Union criticized the administration. Cases prosecuted in military commissions now "are sure to be subject to continuous legal challenges and delays, and their outcomes will not be seen as legitimate. That is not justice," said ACLU executive director Anthony D. Romero.

The National Association of Criminal Defense Attorneys said that "the military commission system is not about seeking justice as much as it is about obtaining convictions."

Holder said it is unclear whether the five men could receive the death penalty if they plead guilty in military court. It will be up to the Pentagon to decide whether the military commission trial will be held at Guantanamo, where the defendants are held, or elsewhere. Also undetermined is whether one or several trials will be needed.

The political fight over where to try the alleged 9/11 plotters is part of a bigger battle in which Republicans want no detainees from Guantanamo Bay brought into the United States.

In a letter sent Monday, Holder re-assured Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill., that the administration has no intention of moving Guantanamo Bay detainees into a shuttered Illinois prison. Originally, the administration intended for Gitmo detainees to be housed there as part of a plan to close Guantanamo Bay.

During a military hearing at Guantanamo Bay in 2007, Mohammed confessed to planning the Sept. 11 attacks and a chilling string of other terror plots. Many of the schemes, including a previously undisclosed plan to kill several former U.S. presidents, were never carried out or were foiled by international counterterror authorities. Mohammed made clear that al-Qaida wanted to down a second trans-Atlantic aircraft during would-be shoe bomber Richard Reid's failed operation later in 2001.

The other four alleged co-conspirators are Waleed bin Attash, a Yemeni who allegedly ran an al-Qaida training camp in Afghanistan; Ramzi Binalshibh, a Yemeni who allegedly helped find flight schools for the hijackers; Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali, accused of helping nine of the hijackers travel to the United States and sending them $120,000 for expenses and flight training, and Mustafa Ahmad al-Hawsawi, a Saudi accused of helping the hijackers with money, Western clothing, traveler's checks and credit cards.

Mohammed allegedly proposed the idea for the Sept. 11 attacks to Osama bin Laden as early as 1996, obtained funding from bin Laden, oversaw the operation and trained the hijackers in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Mohammed was born in Pakistan's Baluchistan province and raised in Kuwait.

Holder's earlier plan for a New York trial was initially embraced by city officials, including Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who said: "It is fitting that 9/11 suspects face justice near the World Trade Center site where so many New Yorkers were murdered."

But on Monday, Bloomberg applauded the decision to use military tribunals instead.

"I've always thought that's more appropriate, and while we would have provided the security if we had to here in New York City, you know being spared the expense is good for us," Bloomberg told reporters at a news conference on another topic. "I happen to think that it's probably more appropriate to do it in a secure area with a military tribunal."

Former Republican Mayor Rudy Giuliani opposed holding the trial in New York.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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This is old news. Obama pulled the NYC courts idea over a year ago.

And no Obama is worse than Bush with his targeted assassination program of US citizens.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
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This is old news. Obama pulled the NYC courts idea over a year ago.

And no Obama is worse than Bush with his targeted assassination program of US citizens.

A douchebag is a douchebag no matter what angle you look at it.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
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Disappointment.


I was one who expected Holder and Obama to take the high road on this one uphold the ideals that make our judicial system the envy of the world...
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
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Military tribunal for enemy combatants targeting civilians, makes sense.

Do we place our soldiers on trial in civilian courts when, on the rare occasion, they intentionally target civilians?
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
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I'm damned relieved. Holding those trials in NYC would have totally made us a target for terror attacks.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Military tribunal for enemy combatants targeting civilians, makes sense.

Do we place our soldiers on trial in civilian courts when, on the rare occasion, they intentionally target civilians?
This. I don't know if Obama was only making political hay, or if he really believed it but later realized that Bush was right, or if he really believes it but has realized that he can not make it work politically. And I don't care. I'm much more concerned with what a politician does than with why he does it, and in this case he's doing the right thing. Good for him.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
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In the end, and given Congress *did* force the Obama administration's hand when they blocked, the Government made the pragmatic decision. While one may disagree with the result: This was one of the issues handed to the current administration by the past one. And at least the cases can move forward and be resolved, rather than existing in a legal twilight zone.


I'm damned relieved. Holding those trials in NYC would have totally made us a target for terror attacks.

This too.

And by extension - the above is a large part of the reason no US city or state would agree to take the prisoners, and why the Congress blocked such transfer(s).
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
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This. I don't know if Obama was only making political hay, or if he really believed it but later realized that Bush was right, or if he really believes it but has realized that he can not make it work politically. And I don't care. I'm much more concerned with what a politician does than with why he does it, and in this case he's doing the right thing. Good for him.
I agree...it took a while, but Obama eventually got to the correct decision. It appears that he's becoming quite the pragmatist and I'm OK with that.
 
Aug 23, 2000
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I agree...it took a while, but Obama eventually got to the correct decision. It appears that he's becoming quite the pragmatist and I'm OK with that.

Well he's starting to learn that leading based on emotional response isn't very wise. When he sits back and actually thinks about something and the ramifications of those actions, he seems to move away from Left to more centered decision making.
 

RedChief

Senior member
Dec 20, 2004
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Remember.....all campaign promises made by Obama have a expiration date. All of them.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
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This too.

And by extension - the above is a large part of the reason no US city or state would agree to take the prisoners, and why the Congress blocked such transfer(s).

My sarcasm was not made plain enough it seems. I apologize.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,154
55,704
136
A sad day, regardless of whether Congress was pushing him or not, Obama should have stood up for what was right. Instead, he gave in to hysterical fearmongering. Too bad.
 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
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Can you explain to me the point of a military tribunal? Because what I get out of it..based on those who want it and why they seem to want it, is that they don't believe in a fair trial for people they have pre-determined to be guilty.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
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Do we place our soldiers on trial in civilian courts when, on the rare occasion, they intentionally target civilians?
When they do it on US soil we do, or at least that's what we did in the case of the Kent State shootings.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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Can you explain to me the point of a military tribunal? Because what I get out of it..based on those who want it and why they seem to want it, is that they don't believe in a fair trial for people they have pre-determined to be guilty.
This is your problem, judging the wisdom of military tribunals based on your hatred and/or distrust of the right.

Three big advantages of military tribunals: First, they are not susceptible to one agenda-driven juror derailing justice in favor of a guilty or not guilty verdict regardless of the evidence. Second, they are not as conducive to being turned into media circuses for political benefit. Third, military tribunals do not face the same restrictions and requirements as do criminal courts. There are no rights to a speedy trial, there are no Miranda rights, there are more lenient evidenciary rules. US domestic criminal law was never designed for, nor is it well suited for, determining guilt in irregular warfare, especially combatants detained outside of US jurisdiction whose crimes were largely or completely committed in foreign locales outside of US jurisdiction.

Expanding US domestic criminal law requires removing many protections that Americans now enjoy. In and of itself, that is a good reason to use military tribunals. Only for US citizens or legal residents accused of crimes entirely within US jurisdiction are domestic criminal trials a good idea.
 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
1
0
This is your problem, judging the wisdom of military tribunals based on your hatred and/or distrust of the right.

Three big advantages of military tribunals: First, they are not susceptible to one agenda-driven juror derailing justice in favor of a guilty or not guilty verdict regardless of the evidence. Second, they are not as conducive to being turned into media circuses for political benefit. Third, military tribunals do not face the same restrictions and requirements as do criminal courts. There are no rights to a speedy trial, there are no Miranda rights, there are more lenient evidenciary rules. US domestic criminal law was never designed for, nor is it well suited for, determining guilt in irregular warfare, especially combatants detained outside of US jurisdiction whose crimes were largely or completely committed in foreign locales outside of US jurisdiction.

Expanding US domestic criminal law requires removing many protections that Americans now enjoy. In and of itself, that is a good reason to use military tribunals. Only for US citizens or legal residents accused of crimes entirely within US jurisdiction are domestic criminal trials a good idea.


So if this military justice system is more efficient and less suspectible to bullshit, then why don't we start using it for all trials in this country? From what you said of military tribunals it basically seems that you want the deck to be stacked against them because their guilt has been pre-determined.

They can detain people for unreasonably long periods of time. The standards for what is considered evidence are weaker. I fail to see how this is supposed to be considered a good thing unless you simply believe that anyone put up to military tribunal is guilty.

I am curious about how often people who are tried under military tribunal are found guilty in comparison to domestic criminal cases.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,154
55,704
136
This is your problem, judging the wisdom of military tribunals based on your hatred and/or distrust of the right.

Three big advantages of military tribunals: First, they are not susceptible to one agenda-driven juror derailing justice in favor of a guilty or not guilty verdict regardless of the evidence. Second, they are not as conducive to being turned into media circuses for political benefit. Third, military tribunals do not face the same restrictions and requirements as do criminal courts. There are no rights to a speedy trial, there are no Miranda rights, there are more lenient evidenciary rules. US domestic criminal law was never designed for, nor is it well suited for, determining guilt in irregular warfare, especially combatants detained outside of US jurisdiction whose crimes were largely or completely committed in foreign locales outside of US jurisdiction.

Expanding US domestic criminal law requires removing many protections that Americans now enjoy. In and of itself, that is a good reason to use military tribunals. Only for US citizens or legal residents accused of crimes entirely within US jurisdiction are domestic criminal trials a good idea.

The US criminal justice system has worked just fine in the past for prosecuting acts of terrorism. Our jails currently house quite a few terrorists convicted in civilian court. It's a question of whether or not we'll let hysterical fear overtake our principles. (the answer to this appears to be yes)
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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So if this military justice system is more efficient and less suspectible to bullshit, then why don't we start using it for all trials in this country? From what you said of military tribunals it basically seems that you want the deck to be stacked against them because their guilt has been pre-determined.

They can detain people for unreasonably long periods of time. The standards for what is considered evidence are weaker. I fail to see how this is supposed to be considered a good thing unless you simply believe that anyone put up to military tribunal is guilty.

I am curious about how often people who are tried under military tribunal are found guilty in comparison to domestic criminal cases.
The standards for what is considered evidence are not necessarily weaker, but they reflect the nature of warfare. Clearly a battle cannot be conducted in the manner of a crime investigation. One might equally validly ask why, if the M1A2 Abrams is superior for armored warfare, we don't start using them for DUI stops. Different tools for different circumstances.

The US criminal justice system has worked just fine in the past for prosecuting acts of terrorism. Our jails currently house quite a few terrorists convicted in civilian court. It's a question of whether or not we'll let hysterical fear overtake our principles. (the answer to this appears to be yes)
For acts of terrorism committed within US jurisdiction by persons under US jurisdiction, I agree. But you'll have to explain to me why prosecuting acts of irregular warfare via military tribunals constitutes "hysterical fear" whereas demanding civilian trials for people captured outside of US jurisdiction and accused of crimes committed outside of US jurisdiction is not "hysterical fear". I suspect the answer is once again "Bush".