Hoax call to provoke India-Pakistan war

[tvarad]

Times online: December 7, 2008:

"A hoax telephone call almost sparked another war between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan at the height of last month's terror attacks on Mumbai, officials and Western diplomats on both sides of the border said today.

Asif Ali Zardari, the Pakistani President, took a telephone call from a man pretending to be Pranab Mukherjee, India's Foreign Minister, on Friday, November 28, apparently without following the usual verification procedures, they said.

The hoax caller threatened to take military action against Pakistan in response to the then ongoing Mumbai attacks, which India has since blamed on the Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), they said.

Mr Zardari responded by placing Pakistan's air force on high alert and telephoning Condoleezza Rice, the US Secretary of State, to ask her to intervene.

But when Dr Rice called Mr Mukherjee, he said that he had not spoken to Mr Zardari and that his last conversation with Shah Mahmood Qureishi, the Pakistani Foreign Minister, had been quite civil.

"It's unbelievable, but true," said a Western diplomat familiar with the frantic diplomatic exchanges that eventually resolved the misunderstanding.

"It was a little alarming, to say the least.""

Times Link.

It looks like some people very high in the Pakistani politico/military hierarchy are working overtime to cause fireworks on the India-Pakistan border. I can't think of any other manner in which such a call could have been patched to Zardari.

I am thinking that the Pakistani military and it's ISI branch is throwing the gauntlet to the NATO forces who are building up for the coming show-down on the Western border: you'll be on your own to fight Al-Qaeda because we'll be busy fighting India. The Pakistani political leaders are, at best, useful idiots for the military so we can safely leave them out of this equation.

The dilemma for India is whether to fall for the bait and play into it's hands or do nothing and appear as wimps and wait for the next provocation which will definitely happen? It's a situation similar to Israel's dilemma when Saddam was firing off scuds in their direction during the First Gulf war inviting them to join the fight.

Under these circumstances, what should the relationship between India and the U.S. be, since any Indian response will have a bearing on the war in Afghanistan?

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: tvarad
Times online: December 7, 2008:

"A hoax telephone call almost sparked another war between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan at the height of last month's terror attacks on Mumbai, officials and Western diplomats on both sides of the border said today.

Asif Ali Zardari, the Pakistani President, took a telephone call from a man pretending to be Pranab Mukherjee, India's Foreign Minister, on Friday, November 28, apparently without following the usual verification procedures, they said.

The hoax caller threatened to take military action against Pakistan in response to the then ongoing Mumbai attacks, which India has since blamed on the Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), they said.

Mr Zardari responded by placing Pakistan's air force on high alert and telephoning Condoleezza Rice, the US Secretary of State, to ask her to intervene.

But when Dr Rice called Mr Mukherjee, he said that he had not spoken to Mr Zardari and that his last conversation with Shah Mahmood Qureishi, the Pakistani Foreign Minister, had been quite civil.

"It's unbelievable, but true," said a Western diplomat familiar with the frantic diplomatic exchanges that eventually resolved the misunderstanding.

"It was a little alarming, to say the least.""

Times Link.

It looks like some people very high in the Pakistani politico/military hierarchy are working overtime to cause fireworks on the India-Pakistan border. I can't think of any other manner in which such a call could have been patched to Zardari.

I am thinking that the Pakistani military and it's ISI branch is throwing the gauntlet to the NATO forces who are building up for the coming show-down on the Western border: you'll be on your own to fight Al-Qaeda because we'll be busy fighting India. The Pakistani political leaders are, at best, useful idiots for the military so we can safely leave them out of this equation.

The dilemma for India is whether to fall for the bait and play into it's hands or do nothing and appear as wimps and wait for the next provocation which will definitely happen? It's a situation similar to Israel's dilemma when Saddam was firing off scuds in their direction during the First Gulf war inviting them to join the fight.

Under these circumstances, what should the relationship between India and the U.S. be, since any Indian response will have a bearing on the war in Afghanistan?

Well if it is as the historical typical relationship, India will do exactly as the US tells her to do.

 

[Veramocor]

Why would the Pakistani army want to provoke a war.

The Indian army is larger an would crush it based on man power. That leaves nukes for Pakistan, and while nuking India would sure hurt them, India's nuclear response would end Pakistan.

Originally posted by: tvarad
Times online: December 7, 2008:

"A hoax telephone call almost sparked another war between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan at the height of last month's terror attacks on Mumbai, officials and Western diplomats on both sides of the border said today.

Asif Ali Zardari, the Pakistani President, took a telephone call from a man pretending to be Pranab Mukherjee, India's Foreign Minister, on Friday, November 28, apparently without following the usual verification procedures, they said.

The hoax caller threatened to take military action against Pakistan in response to the then ongoing Mumbai attacks, which India has since blamed on the Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), they said.

Mr Zardari responded by placing Pakistan's air force on high alert and telephoning Condoleezza Rice, the US Secretary of State, to ask her to intervene.

But when Dr Rice called Mr Mukherjee, he said that he had not spoken to Mr Zardari and that his last conversation with Shah Mahmood Qureishi, the Pakistani Foreign Minister, had been quite civil.

"It's unbelievable, but true," said a Western diplomat familiar with the frantic diplomatic exchanges that eventually resolved the misunderstanding.

"It was a little alarming, to say the least.""

Times Link.

It looks like some people very high in the Pakistani politico/military hierarchy are working overtime to cause fireworks on the India-Pakistan border. I can't think of any other manner in which such a call could have been patched to Zardari.

I am thinking that the Pakistani military and it's ISI branch is throwing the gauntlet to the NATO forces who are building up for the coming show-down on the Western border: you'll be on your own to fight Al-Qaeda because we'll be busy fighting India. The Pakistani political leaders are, at best, useful idiots for the military so we can safely leave them out of this equation.

The dilemma for India is whether to fall for the bait and play into it's hands or do nothing and appear as wimps and wait for the next provocation which will definitely happen? It's a situation similar to Israel's dilemma when Saddam was firing off scuds in their direction during the First Gulf war inviting them to join the fight.

Under these circumstances, what should the relationship between India and the U.S. be, since any Indian response will have a bearing on the war in Afghanistan?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Veramocor
Why would the Pakistani army want to provoke a war.

The Indian army is larger an would crush it based on man power. That leaves nukes for Pakistan, and while nuking India would sure hurt them, India's nuclear response would end Pakistan.
...

Indeed. tvarad's anti-Pakistan propaganda doesn't make much sense here...nobody in an official capacity in either government stands to benefit from a war between India and Pakistan, the potential consequences to both countries far outweigh any benefits I can see (and tvarad helpfully doesn't provide). If anything, it sounds like something that would help a terrorist organization far more.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Pakistan can only win a quick, decisive war against India. The manpower advantage is simply too much for India.

Secondly, neither country wants a war, only extremist elements do. Pakistan is trying to modernize it's industry while India wants a peaceful subcontinent because it's good for business. War would undermine both countries' goals.

 

[Dari]

Zardari went running to SoS Condi Rice when threatened with war. What a pussy.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Dari
Zardari went running to SoS Condi Rice when threatened with war. What a pussy.

Yeah, I know, he should have instantly called up their Air Force and told them to send in the nukes. That would have been much more manly.:roll:

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Dari
Zardari went running to SoS Condi Rice when threatened with war. What a pussy.

Yeah, I know, he should have instantly called up their Air Force and told them to send in the nukes. That would have been much more manly.:roll:

Or he could get on the phone with the Prime Minister of India:roll:. Why be a pussy and run to our SoS instead of dealing with it directly? Mr 10% is a pussy in my book.

 

[tvarad]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Veramocor
Why would the Pakistani army want to provoke a war.

The Indian army is larger an would crush it based on man power. That leaves nukes for Pakistan, and while nuking India would sure hurt them, India's nuclear response would end Pakistan.
...

Indeed. tvarad's anti-Pakistan propaganda doesn't make much sense here...nobody in an official capacity in either government stands to benefit from a war between India and Pakistan, the potential consequences to both countries far outweigh any benefits I can see (and tvarad helpfully doesn't provide). If anything, it sounds like something that would help a terrorist organization far more.

So, speaking out against the Pakistani army which has so much blood on it's hands (think 3 million in the 1971 Bangladeshi holocaust alone) is anti-Pakistani propaganda? These are the same folks that are two-timing the Nato force in Afghanistan which is forcing the latter to take on the matter of eliminating Al-Qaeda/Taliban nuts in Pakistan into it's own hands. Your naivete never ceases to amuse.

I have given a more cogent reason as to why the tensions between India and Pakistan are being ratcheted up than your ad-hominum attack, viz. to ease the Nato forced pressure being applied on the Pakistani govt. to take on the militants in their own badlands.

The point I was trying to make is that there are Al-Qaeda/Taliban sympathizers very high up in the Pakistani politico-military hierarchy (whose position is being threatened by the coming show-down on the Western border) to ensure that such a dangerous call could have been patched through to Zardari, and has to be dealt with by both the U.S. and India. The guy called up Condi because he could not trust his own people. And I happen to think that Zardari is making a sincere effort to tackle Pakistani problems but his hands are tied by the army.

 

[Farang]

The point of war from a Pakistani perspective would be to draw enough international attention (which nukes certainly would) to get the Kashmir issue resolved. Example: Kargil conflict.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Dari
Zardari went running to SoS Condi Rice when threatened with war. What a pussy.

Yeah, I know, he should have instantly called up their Air Force and told them to send in the nukes. That would have been much more manly.:roll:

Or he could get on the phone with the Prime Minister of India:roll:. Why be a pussy and run to our SoS instead of dealing with it directly? Mr 10% is a pussy in my book.

Call him up to say what? He thought he just had a conversation with him.

 

[tvarad]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Dari
Zardari went running to SoS Condi Rice when threatened with war. What a pussy.

Yeah, I know, he should have instantly called up their Air Force and told them to send in the nukes. That would have been much more manly.:roll:

Or he could get on the phone with the Prime Minister of India:roll:. Why be a pussy and run to our SoS instead of dealing with it directly? Mr 10% is a pussy in my book.

I think many are wondering why two nuclear armed neighbors do not have such a hotline in place. I think one was established after the last stand-off in the wake of the attack on the Indian parliament, but my postulate is that Zardari does not trust his own people enough to use it, which is why he turned to Condi for verification.

 

[tvarad]

Originally posted by: Farang
The point of war from a Pakistani perspective would be to draw enough international attention (which nukes certainly would) to get the Kashmir issue resolved. Example: Kargil conflict.

Or to keep the Pakistani military pre-eminence in the Pakistani polity in place, which is based on the premise of the existence of Pakistan being perpetually threatened by India. Kashmir is a side-show. These guys own half of Pakistan through all kinds of societies, trusts etc. so they are loath to lose their privileges.

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: tvarad

Originally posted by: Farang
The point of war from a Pakistani perspective would be to draw enough international attention (which nukes certainly would) to get the Kashmir issue resolved. Example: Kargil conflict.

Or to keep the Pakistani military pre-eminence in the Pakistani polity in place, which is based on the premise of the existence of Pakistan being perpetually threatened by India. Kashmir is a side-show. These guys own half of Pakistan through all kinds of societies, trusts etc. so they are loath to lose their privileges.

I realize the source I used may be biased, but I wrote a lengthy essay on the Kargil conflict and just thought I'd pick this part out:

Head of the Pakistani military during the Kargil conflict, General Pervez Musharaff, was a powerful figure in the country and would take power in a military coup shortly after its end. Thus it is relevant to look at his personal opinions regarding Kashmir and Jammu, which we will do by looking at a study done by the Indian Institute of Topical Studies which
pieced together his thoughts from interviews and pronouncements over the years. Quoting
the study:

1. The BJP [Indian ruling party] is a party of ?paper tigers,? known more for verbosity than for action.
2. Pakistan?s nuclear and missile capability has ensured that India would not retaliate against Pakistan for occupying ridges in the Kargil area.
3. The fear of the possible use of nuclear weapons would bring in Western intervention, thereby internationalizing the Kashmir issue.
4. Pakistan should agree to a ceasefire only if it were allowed to remain in occupation of the Indian territory. There should be no question of the restoration of the status quo ante.

With that said I wouldn't dispute your assertion either. I suppose it depends on those in the military who actually care about Kashmir versus those with the motives you mentioned.

 

[crisscross]

The reason why the Pakistani military wants war with India is because at the first attack by India, General Kiyani the Military chief can declare a crisis and take over rule of the country. Any of you who would take the time to read about what happened in Kargil about 10 years ago would know that the Pakistani Military doesn't go by logic.

 

[imported_K3N]

This vid sums everything up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-KJCMWcoms

US war with pakistan likely in 09

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: K3N
This vid sums everything up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-KJCMWcoms

US war with pakistan likely in 09

That video starts with a "historian" who is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Well if it is as the historical typical relationship, India will do exactly as the US tells her to do.

Wow, you have exactly zero knowledge or understanding of that history, or you wouldn't say such an astoundingly stupid thing. There's a reason Russia has been India's largest arms supplier for decades.

 

[gevorg]

The thing is, even though Pakistani military is no match to Indian military, they still have nuclear weapons so it could get nasty.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Dari
Zardari went running to SoS Condi Rice when threatened with war. What a pussy.

Yeah, I know, he should have instantly called up their Air Force and told them to send in the nukes. That would have been much more manly.:roll:

Or he could get on the phone with the Prime Minister of India:roll:. Why be a pussy and run to our SoS instead of dealing with it directly? Mr 10% is a pussy in my book.

i think my name would be more fitting for you. want to trade?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Dari
Zardari went running to SoS Condi Rice when threatened with war. What a pussy.

Yeah, I know, he should have instantly called up their Air Force and told them to send in the nukes. That would have been much more manly.:roll:

Or he could get on the phone with the Prime Minister of India:roll:. Why be a pussy and run to our SoS instead of dealing with it directly? Mr 10% is a pussy in my book.

i think my name would be more fitting for you. want to trade?

Nope. Your name suits you just fine. What do you see that's so idiotic about my statement? Zardari panicks and calls our SoS for help instead of calling the boss of the person he was just talking to. To me, it makes no sense unless he was truly afraid instead of straightening his back, growing a pair, and calling the Prime Minister of India to confirm what the Foreign Minister just said. After that, he could've called other foreign leaders then prepare his nation for war. Simple, smart, and efficient. By running to Rice, it shows that Zardari, the supposed leader of Pakistan, is a man with two holes between his legs.

 

[StageLeft]

Pakistan has no hope of winning a war against India, although the chaos created by one can benefit certain people on either side, aiming for power grabs.