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Hmmmm. Japan seems to be growing a new pair after all.

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
2
0
...and now they threaten to intercept North Korean rockets/missiles. Sweet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7967202.stm

Japan to 'destroy' N Korea rocket
Satellite image of the North Korean launch pad (11/03/2009)
The launch pad has been picked up on satellite images

Japan says it is deploying missile interceptors to destroy any parts of a North Korean rocket that might fall on its territory.

North Korea has said it will launch a satellite into orbit next month.

South Korea, Japan and the US say the launch is cover for a test of the Taepodong-2 ballistic missile.

The US said a launch would violate UN Security Council resolutions. Russia said North Korea should "abstain" from testing any missiles.

'Assure safety'

Japan's Defence Minister Yasukazu Hamada issued the orders to mobilise Japan's missile defence shield after a meeting with Prime Minister Taro Aso and cabinet ministers.

"We will do our best to handle any flying object from North Korea in order to assure the Japanese people's safety and security," said Mr Hamada.


Map

North Korea's missile programme

"A satellite or a missile - we are displeased with anything that is going to fly over our land, and such an action must be stopped."

It is the first time that constitutionally pacifist Japan has deployed the shield. The country's military is also expected to deploy warships off its coast.

North Korea says it intends to test-fire the rocket between the 4 and 8 April.

The trajectory issued by Pyongyang shows the rocket will pass over Japan, with the first booster stage landing in the sea to the west, the second in the Pacific Ocean to the east.

The interception is only likely to be activated if the launch does not go as planned and debris appears to be falling towards Japan.

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Alexei Borodavkin told journalists that the launch had led to increased tensions in the region, "and this is why it would be better if our partners in North Korea abstained from this".

Japan revised its Self-Defence Forces Law in 2005, legalising possible interceptions of ballistic missiles.

But the country's pacifist constitution does not allow it to intercept a missile if it is clearly heading elsewhere.

The Japanese government had previously warned it would try to shoot down any missile or debris that threatens to hit its territory.

North Korea has said it would regard any rocket intercept as an act of war.
Also, I'm pretty sure those "helicopter carrying destroyers" as Japan calls them could be refitted to use F-35Bs (the STOVL variant) pretty easily, especially given our relationship with Japan and the international nature of the JSF project.

Personally I see this as a good thing. Maybe in a decade or so they'll be developed enough to take some of the strain off of our forces in the region. Of course that's assuming shit doesn't hit the fan before then.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
126
Great, cheering Japan increasing the militarism, cheering increased chance of conflict.

Taunt them about 'growing a pair', in case anyone mistakenly assumes you have any good sense about Japan's pacifist constitution.

What is it they say about those who don't learn from history?

I have no issue with the story, what Japan is doing, only your take on it.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
4
76
I guess you don't realize that their "not having a pair" was because of how we wrote their constitution. Their military can only be defensive.
 

ZzZGuy

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2006
1,855
0
0
Doing a quick look online, during WWII Japan killed between 20 million and 35 million Chinese civilians, ~9 million being collateral damage. To this day, Japan has never said "we are sorry", they have never had any remorse over what happened.

So let them lack a pair of balls, I do not trust them to not go on another rampage (even with China on the rise).
 

alphatarget1

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,710
0
76
Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
Doing a quick look online, during WWII Japan killed between 20 million and 35 million Chinese civilians, ~9 million being collateral damage. To this day, Japan has never said "we are sorry", they have never had any remorse over what happened.

So let them lack a pair of balls, I do not trust them to not go on another rampage (even with China on the rise).
They will probably get pwned if they tried anything now that China and South Korea aren't as weak as they were compared to the beginning of the century.
 

Kirby

Lifer
Apr 10, 2006
12,032
2
0
Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
Doing a quick look online, during WWII Japan killed between 20 million and 35 million Chinese civilians, ~9 million being collateral damage. To this day, Japan has never said "we are sorry", they have never had any remorse over what happened.

So let them lack a pair of balls, I do not trust them to not go on another rampage (even with China on the rise).
They will probably get pwned if they tried anything now that China and South Korea aren't as weak as they were compared to the beginning of the century.
As if Japan would attack S. Korea. :confused:
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,245
3,783
126
Originally posted by: Craig234
Great, cheering Japan increasing the militarism, cheering increased chance of conflict.
Cheering about our side not taking it up the rear end. If that rocket heads over another country then it should be their right to take it down.
 

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
1,787
0
0
The Japanese really appear to be threatened by this particular Taepodong. Does anyone know what Taepodong is being hurled at Japan? It's probably the biggest one North Korea has.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
2
0
Originally posted by: Strk
I guess you don't realize that their "not having a pair" was because of how we wrote their constitution. Their military can only be defensive.
I also know that the prevailing attitude among the Japanese population is "having a non-pacifist military will lead to war". WWII was a long time ago. I'm pretty sure that attitude is the reason that Constitution hasn't been amended. Hell a powerful Japanese military would actually be in our interest at this point.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
2
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
Great, cheering Japan increasing the militarism, cheering increased chance of conflict.

Taunt them about 'growing a pair', in case anyone mistakenly assumes you have any good sense about Japan's pacifist constitution.

What is it they say about those who don't learn from history?

I have no issue with the story, what Japan is doing, only your take on it.
Cheering the potential pressure that they may take off of our backs. Cheering about Japan actually starting to look like it can take care of itself militarily should there be an all-out war with, say, China?

As for increasing the chance of conflict. *sigh*. To invoke an analogous argument: "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." If every military in the world spontaneously disarmed, I can still guarantee that some street thug would figure out pretty quickly that if he put a large group of guys with guns together he could take over pretty easily.

As for the relevance of that statement, let's face it. If our military suddenly disappeared from that region, Taiwan would be fucked, South Korea more than likely under siege, and Japan pressured at best, soundly defeated militarily at worst.

The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.
- Sun Tzu
 

Circlenaut

Platinum Member
Mar 22, 2001
2,164
0
76
Originally posted by: fallout man
The Japanese really appear to be threatened by this particular Taepodong. Does anyone know what Taepodong is being hurled at Japan? It's probably the biggest one North Korea has.
Hehe I chuckled
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
Doing a quick look online, during WWII Japan killed between 20 million and 35 million Chinese civilians, ~9 million being collateral damage. To this day, Japan has never said "we are sorry", they have never had any remorse over what happened.

So let them lack a pair of balls, I do not trust them to not go on another rampage (even with China on the rise).
They will probably get pwned if they tried anything now that China and South Korea aren't as weak as they were compared to the beginning of the century.
Why would they try anything with China or South Korea? BTW, Japan may not have any nukes but they have tons of nuclear power stations. All it takes is a couple of months for them to turn their uranium into weapons-grade material.
 

Hajpoj

Senior member
Dec 9, 2006
288
0
0
^I'm pretty sure Okinawa has "US Nukes" on standby, not to mention the constant presence of US Naval ships in there area that are obviously "hot" w/ nukes if the SHTF
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,220
26
91
Originally posted by: Hajpoj
^I'm pretty sure Okinawa has "US Nukes" on standby, not to mention the constant presence of US Naval ships in there area that are obviously "hot" w/ nukes if the SHTF
Really? You think we base nuclear arms in Japan?


Links?


We have subs, we dont need land based weapons in that particular theatre.
 

Hajpoj

Senior member
Dec 9, 2006
288
0
0
You don't think Silo's were built during the Cold War before the subs came around? Not to mention, "nuclear tipped" cruise missiles that can be armed at a moment's notice from any cruise launch platform....sheesh
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
4
76
Originally posted by: irishScott
Originally posted by: Strk
I guess you don't realize that their "not having a pair" was because of how we wrote their constitution. Their military can only be defensive.
I also know that the prevailing attitude among the Japanese population is "having a non-pacifist military will lead to war". WWII was a long time ago. I'm pretty sure that attitude is the reason that Constitution hasn't been amended. Hell a powerful Japanese military would actually be in our interest at this point.
Japan already has a powerful military. I wouldn't misconstrue "defensive only" as a synonym for weak. It's funding as a percentage of GDP isn't that high, but Japan has the third largest economy in the world. Japan is either fifth or sixth (I believe it is US, France, UK, Russia, China, Japan) largest military in the world. There are only a few things that they simply can't produce because they can't be argued as defensive (ICBMs etc).

However, Japan is extremely limited on any foreign operations.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,220
26
91
Originally posted by: Hajpoj
You don't think Silo's were built during the Cold War before the subs came around? Not to mention, "nuclear tipped" cruise missiles that can be armed at a moment's notice from any cruise launch platform....sheesh
Remember what happened when Russia tried to base weapons outside of their "sphere of influence"?

Unless you have some sort of evidence of Japan holding US nuclear arms or having silos, I will take your post as a comedic one.

I believe it is in Japan's constitution that they will not go nuclear.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
126
Originally posted by: irishScott
Originally posted by: Craig234
Great, cheering Japan increasing the militarism, cheering increased chance of conflict.

Taunt them about 'growing a pair', in case anyone mistakenly assumes you have any good sense about Japan's pacifist constitution.

What is it they say about those who don't learn from history?

I have no issue with the story, what Japan is doing, only your take on it.
Cheering the potential pressure that they may take off of our backs. Cheering about Japan actually starting to look like it can take care of itself militarily should there be an all-out war with, say, China?

As for increasing the chance of conflict. *sigh*. To invoke an analogous argument: "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." If every military in the world spontaneously disarmed, I can still guarantee that some street thug would figure out pretty quickly that if he put a large group of guys with guns together he could take over pretty easily.

As for the relevance of that statement, let's face it. If our military suddenly disappeared from that region, Taiwan would be fucked, South Korea more than likely under siege, and Japan pressured at best, soundly defeated militarily at worst.

The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.
- Sun Tzu
It's your framing foreign policy by the reference to 'balls' for Japan that was the problem.

That's the sort of framing used by Coors-imbibing people in bad recliners.

There's a discussion to be had about the right policies - as I've said many times - for a stable peace (and funny enough, I've used almost the same point you did about how a vacuum of power leads to a local person organizing a force that returns to the days of warlords), but mocking Japan for a lack of balls has no place in it.
 

Hajpoj

Senior member
Dec 9, 2006
288
0
0
No, but A US Base is not "Japan" and the geographical locale makes obvious sense. All the US warships in the area that are "Nuclear Tipped" are all the deterrence they'll ever need. IIRC, every major cruiser and destroyer carries at least 1-tactical nuke.

"Continent busters" can't be carried on ships, use common sense >.>
 

Deadtrees

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2002
2,351
0
0
Japan has been trying to break the limit set in the consititution. A really good excuse they can come up with is North Korea.
The more aggressive NK gets, the better excuse it becomes for Japan.

The problem is that it will drive the power balance between Japan, China, South Korea, and Taiwan to the extreme. The best thing for the region is to have Japan to stay as they were.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: Deadtrees
Japan has been trying to break the limit set in the consititution. A really good excuse they can come up with is North Korea.
The more aggressive NK gets, the better excuse it becomes for Japan.

The problem is that it will drive the power balance between Japan, China, South Korea, and Taiwan to the extreme. The best thing for the region is to have Japan to stay as they were.
Wrong.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
126
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Deadtrees
Japan has been trying to break the limit set in the consititution. A really good excuse they can come up with is North Korea.
The more aggressive NK gets, the better excuse it becomes for Japan.

The problem is that it will drive the power balance between Japan, China, South Korea, and Taiwan to the extreme. The best thing for the region is to have Japan to stay as they were.
Wrong.
Dari, please post a Cliff's of your argument. It's too much detail.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Deadtrees
Japan has been trying to break the limit set in the consititution. A really good excuse they can come up with is North Korea.
The more aggressive NK gets, the better excuse it becomes for Japan.

The problem is that it will drive the power balance between Japan, China, South Korea, and Taiwan to the extreme. The best thing for the region is to have Japan to stay as they were.
Wrong.
Dari, please post a Cliff's of your argument. It's too much detail.
China is increasing their military rapidly with all the money they're making. We need a Japan that can assist us, not one that is constrained by an atavistic constitution. Taiwan is on the same page as us. South Korea should be as well but I doubt if they'd care if China attacked Japan.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
4
76
Originally posted by: Deadtrees
Japan has been trying to break the limit set in the consititution. A really good excuse they can come up with is North Korea.
The more aggressive NK gets, the better excuse it becomes for Japan.

The problem is that it will drive the power balance between Japan, China, South Korea, and Taiwan to the extreme. The best thing for the region is to have Japan to stay as they were.
Japan hasn't really tried to break it. The few things they can't do, we fill the gaps. They don't need nukes or ICBMs, since we'd take care of it for them.
 

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