History vs. Hogwash -- The Rampant BS in the Civil Rights Movement -- by Thomas Sowell

Amused

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Apr 14, 2001
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I find the last paragraph and line very insightful (in bold)...

History vs. Hogwash
commentary by Thomas Sowell

Bill O'Reilly of "The O'Reilly Factor" is one of the few major media figures who does not hesitate to criticize Jesse Jackson, so it was appropriate that the author of a critical new book about Jackson appeared on that program. The book is aptly titled "Shakedown," in honor of the Reverend Jackson's success in extracting millions of dollars from weak-kneed corporations that are fearful of his calling them "racist."

On the program with the author was a loudmouth Jackson supporter. When O'Reilly quoted something critical of Jackson said by Washington Post columnist William Raspberry, the response was that Raspberry wouldn't be where he is without Jesse Jackson. This is a standard evasion of criticisms of black "leaders." It is also hogwash.

William Raspberry is not the first black columnist, nor even the first black writer at a major white publication. Before either Bill Raspberry or Jesse Jackson was born, black writer George Schuyler wrote for a leading literary magazine called The American Mercury, edited by the legendary H. L. Mencken. All this was decades before the civil rights revolution and before the phrase "affirmative action" had been coined.

Black writers are nothing new. Back in the late 19th century, Charles W. Chesnutt was published in The Atlantic Monthly. And back in the late 18th century, Gustavus Vassa published a book that went through eight editions. Somehow, they managed to do this without Jesse Jackson or affirmative action.

Why Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist Bill Raspberry would not have been able to follow in their footsteps without Jesse is one of the mysteries of our time.

From time to time someone tells me that I would not have been able to do this or that without affirmative action. But everything that I have done was done by other blacks before me -- and therefore long before the civil rights revolution of the 1960s or affirmative action.

My academic career began before the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but I was by no means the first black professor at a white institution or even the first black economist in the Ivy League. Nobel Prize-winning black economist W. Arthur Lewis taught at Princeton before I taught at Cornell. The first black faculty member at a major university was Allison Davis at the University of Chicago in 1940.

There was no affirmative action when I was admitted as a student at Harvard College in 1955 but, even if there had been and even if I had been admitted because of it, what about all the blacks who went to Harvard before me? The first black man graduated from Harvard in 1870 -- about a century before affirmative action.

It is not just a handful of individuals who advanced without the supposedly indispensable black "leaders." Most of the reduction in the number of black families in poverty occurred in the 1940s and 1950s -- before any major civil rights legislation. Black males doubled their years of schooling during that time. When you double your education, your income tends to go up -- with or without Jesse Jackson or other black "leaders."

People who look for sinister or melodramatic explanations for the belated emergence of blacks in sizable numbers in a variety of high-level positions often ignore the crucial question of the number of blacks qualified for such positions. As of 1940, the average black adult had not completed an elementary school education.

As the number of blacks with higher qualifications increased, their numbers in occupations requiring those qualifications also increased. Indeed, the numbers increased at a faster rate during the 5 years preceding the Civil Rights Act of 1964 than in the 5 years afterward. But no one wants to talk about this because it would undermine the myth that the government and black "leaders" are responsible for the advancement of the black population.

One of the consequences of that myth is that, while most blacks lifted themselves out of poverty, the public image is that government programs were responsible. This has left many whites wondering why blacks can't advance themselves by their own efforts, like other minorities -- and left many blacks likewise convinced that without government programs they would be lost.

Such myths help race hustlers but hurt the race that they claim to be leading.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
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I agree with the last paragraphs. As it is with economics, short term help usually hurts people in the longrun
 

Maetryx

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Jan 18, 2001
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It's also interesting to note that black women achieved income parity with white women many decades ago.

And does anyone think that the Congress enacted Civil Rights legislation against the wishes of their constituents? Not a chance. The government bowed to popular pressure. They weren't pioneering ahead of the population, forcing progress on a majority of racists. They obeyed the will of the people.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Good article, "life is what you make it" :)


b0mbrman,
welcome to the lifer club, I'll join you soon ;)
 

jjones

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Oct 9, 2001
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Interesting commentary and I'd have to say I agree with it and have felt the same way. It has always seemed to me that the the feeling of entitlement that permeates through much of the black community over recent decades has been caused by people like JJ and years of over-compensation by government.

Ultimately, this has more detrimental than benefitial results to the community on the whole and appears to have greatly slowed positive growth. It has seemed to me that the blacks were able to do more for themselves back in the 60's and early 70's than they appear interested in doing today.
 

Red Dawn

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That article reminds me of a speech I heard Louis Farrakhan give a few years back regarding the reliance of Black America to entitlement programs such as Affirmative Action. In his speech he stated that Blacks should not look to the Government to help them better their station in life. It was his assetion that Government Programs to help the Blacks actually were a form of slavery, making a whole race feel inferior and that they, without the help from the White Politicians, would not be able to better themselves and become successful in American society. He went on to say that the Black Community needed to divorce themselves from slave programs (his words) such as welfare and affirmative action and use their considerable economic power to help support black owned businesses, schools and the Black community as a whole. He concluded that until they were able to do that and stop depending on programs like Affirmative Action they would never achieve parity with their white counterparts here in America.

I bet that Sowell and Farrakhan have little in common besides their race and their belief that Government Entitlement programs were more of a detriment to Minorities than beneficial.


..The rest was edited out because it was complete bullsh!t....
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
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<< ..The rest was edited out because it was complete bullsh!t.... >>




No it wasn't, too bad I pressed "reply" instead of "quote", oh well.


While programs like AA are BS, few can deny that the civil rights movements has had a positive effect on society as a whole.
 

PlatinumGold

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Aug 11, 2000
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It has ALWAYS been obvious that black leaders push for welfare programs to further their own PERSONAL agendas at the cost of their "people".

No one thinks less of the ability of black people than black leaders themselves. I honestly DO NOT believe that this was the DREAM that MLK Jr. had.
 

Red Dawn

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<< No one thinks less of the ability of black people than black leaders themselves. I honestly DO NOT believe that this was the DREAM that MLK Jr. had. >>

Are you talking about Jackson and Sharpton or are you talking about all Black Leaders? It it's even the majority of black Leaders, can you qualify your statement without using Jackson anf Sharpton as an example? Would you also include Loius Farrakhan among those Black Leaders too?
 

Amused

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Apr 14, 2001
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<<

<< ..The rest was edited out because it was complete bullsh!t.... >>




No it wasn't, too bad I pressed "reply" instead of "quote", oh well.


While programs like AA are BS, few can deny that the civil rights movements has had a positive effect on society as a whole.
>>



Race based civil rights as law has had little, to no effect. In fact, it seems to have had a negative effect on black family cohesiveness.

BUT, civil rights as an education campaign and the change of social attitudes has had a positive effect. Few understand that laws cannot, and have never changed the hearts and minds of the people. You can't make a person love their fellow man by threatening them with jail or fines. If anything, you get a negative backlash.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
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Race based civil rights as law has had little, to no effect. In fact, it seems to have had a negative effect on black family cohesiveness.

Those phenomena coincided no evidence of causation.

BUT, civil rights as an education campaign and the change of social attitudes has had a positive effect. Few understand that laws cannot, and have never changed the hearts and minds of the people.

Amen, Brother . . . now if only we could extend that principle to bombs and bullets.
 

Amused

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Apr 14, 2001
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<< Race based civil rights as law has had little, to no effect. In fact, it seems to have had a negative effect on black family cohesiveness.

Those phenomena coincided no evidence of causation.
>>



No, but the correlation alone is very compelling. For nearly one hundred years previous, black families were very strong, and that strength erroded right along with the creation of AA and the welfare state. I posit that government programs created a lack of personal responsibility and self respect.
 

Amused

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Apr 14, 2001
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<<

<< BUT, civil rights as an education campaign and the change of social attitudes has had a positive effect. Few understand that laws cannot, and have never changed the hearts and minds of the people. >>



Amen, Brother . . . now if only we could extend that principle to bombs and bullets.
>>



I'm sorry, I don't follow your meaning here.
 

AaronP

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Feb 27, 2000
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Tom Sowell is a brother that I almost always agree with 100% He's a wise dude. :) not another "activist" who preaches about victimization all day.
 

BaliBabyDoc

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Bombs and bullets are often equally ineffective at changing the minds and certainly hearts of people.

No, but the correlation alone is very compelling. For nearly one hundred years previous, black families were very strong, and that strength erroded right along with the creation of AA and the welfare state. I posit that government programs created a lack of personal responsibility and self respect.

So are clouds and rain (correlated) but you don't grab an umbrella for every cirrus you see. The majority of black families ARE very strong. A disappointly large number are not. Granted, I have the same opinion about white families. It is clear that the DESIGN of our welfare system along with other elements of society have helped sustain a cycle of poverty; predominantly white but disproportionately black (particularly urban). But how can you castigate people for a lack of self respect when the rule of law up until the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was to deny equality on ANY basis . . .

the beginning of your 100 yrs . . . I think God intended the awesome people to be slaves. Now since man has deranged God's plan, I think the best we can do is keep 'em as near to a state of bondage as possible. . . . My theory is, feed 'em well, clothe 'em well, and then, if they don't work . . . whip 'em well. -- A Yazoo Delta planter, 1866

Blacks who challenged these rules faced arrest, humiliation, and sometimes worse. On a steamboat ride down the Mississippi River, Trowbridge noticed "a fashionably dressed couple" come on board near Vicksburg.

Terrible was the captain's wrath. "God damn your soul," he said, "get off this boat." The gentleman and lady were colored, and they had been guilty of unpardonable impudence in asking for a stateroom.

"Kick the great person!" "He ought to have his neck broke!" "He ought to be hung!" said the indignant passangers, by whom the captain's prompt action was strongly commended.

The unwelcome couple went quietly ashore and one of the hands pitched their trunk after them. They were in a dilemma: their clothes were too fine for deck passage and their skins were too dark for cabin passage. So they sat down on the shore to wait for the next steamer.

"They won't find a boat that'll take 'em." said the grim captain.

"Anyhow, they can't force their damned great person equality on to met" Afterwards I heard the virtuous passengers talking over the affair.

"How would you feel." said one with solemn emphasis, "to know that your wife was sleeping in the next room to a great person and his wife?"(8)


You were saying about self respect . . .

Southern whites took a different point of view. Emancipation had ended slavery but had not destroyed the assumptions upon which slavery was based. The fact that many blacks abandoned their plantations in 1865 simply reinforced the image of the lazy, indolent field hand, shuffling aimlessly through life. In white eyes, the Negro viewed his freedom in typically primitive terms--as a license to roam the countryside in search of pleasure and trouble.

In fact, some Yankees thought much the same thing. Northern officials in Mississippi were often appalled by the freedman's "lawless" behavior. But unlike Southerners, these officials were more likely to view him as a victim of circumstance, not as a congenital thief To be free and black in Mississippi "is first to beg, then to steal, and then to starve' " a Union officer observed. "That is their reality." A colonel from Illinois took the longer view: "Slavery has made them what they are; if they are ignorant and stupid, don't expect much of them; and give them at least time to [improve] before judging them by the highest standards."(20)

Such views were anathema in the white South, where slavery had long been viewed as a civilizing influence upon an inferior race. Bondage had been good for the Negro, it was argued, because the system kept his primitive instincts in check. And freedom would be bad for the Negro because those checks had been removed. Southerners "understood" such things. They knew that slavery had been a response to the African's inferiority, and not its cause. They knew that the freedman needed constant attention--and a whip at his back. "The negro is [their] sacred animal," said a Mississippi planter. "The Yankees are about negroes like the Egyptians were about cats."(21)


But freedom had its limits, Humphreys continued. It protected the Negro's person and property but did not guarantee him political or social equality with whites. Indeed the "purity and progress" of both races required a strict caste system, with blacks accepting their place in the lower order of things. And that place--literally--was the cotton field of the south. Since economic recovery depended on a ready supply of Negro labor, the new system, like the old one, must reward the faithful field hand and punish the loafer. Such was the rule of the plantation, said Humphreys, and the "law of God."

that's the governor of Mississippi if you were wondering . . .

In Mississippi, this act created a new political majority almost overnight. More than 80,000 black voters were registered by federal officials, as opposed to fewer than 60,000 whites. Not surprisingly, these freedmen joined the party of Abraham Lincoln and the Emancipation Proclamation. By 1870, black Republicans in Mississippi were serving as sheriffs, mayors, and state legislators. "Local newspapers routinely described them as "ranting awesome people" and "stinking scoundrels.") Their ranks included John R. Lynch, the first black Speaker of the Mississippi House of Representatives, and Hiram B. Revels, the first Negro to serve in the US. Senate. Revels would make history--some called it "historic revenge"--by completing the unexpired term of Jefferson Davis, the state's most famous son.

GOP's better days . . .

Among the Klan's favorite targets were Northern white teachers who had traveled south to instruct black children about the rights and responsibilities of freedom. Local white opinion of these teachers was very harsh. The historian of Oktibbeha County described them as "obnoxious agitators" who "Incited the darkeys against their old friends, the Southern whites." How? By teaching blacks that freedom meant thinking for themselves.(38)

For the most part, native whites viewed the very idea of black education as a contradiction in terms. Why confuse the Negro by raising false hopes about his naturally humble station in life? "These country awesome people are like monkeys"' a white woman explained to a local teacher. "You can't learn them to come in when it rains."(39)

Most Klan attacks took place in the poor hill country, where white farmers were struggling with crop failures, fears of black competition, and the numbing losses of war. It was here that teachers were threatened, beaten, and sometimes killed. "The violence centered on the schools of the Negroes . . .," wrote one historian. "By the summer of 1871, in a number of counties, not a school remained in operation."(40)


The Meridian riot demonstrated that the black community--poorly armed, economically dependent, and new to freedom--could not effectively resist white violence without federal help. And it showed that such help might be lacking at the very moment it was needed most. By 1871, Northern sympathy for the freedman's troubles had begun to wane. Military occupation was simply not working in the South; even General Sherman, the US. Army commander, despaired of propping up weak and provocative state governments with more federal troops. As black Meridian buried its dead that spring, the failure of Reconstruction was clear. The freedman stood dangerously alone.(43)

The take home is that what you attribute to phenomena of the past half century have etiologies clearly linked to events over a century ago. Geopolitical affiliations and dispositions . . . opinions about the role of the federal government . . . success and failure in America . . . education . . . race . . . much has changed but much remains the same.

Worse than Slavery by David Oshinsky
 

travler

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It has been my beleif that discrimination and bigotry are the products of racism. Racism itself occurs when race becomes a primary identity of people. I dont mean a physical identifier but a social identity. As long as people are wraped around the axle about their race there will be racism and thus its ugly products. Sometimes the very act of acusing someone of racism is itself a form of racism. kinda like someone yelling "be quiet." I think it is the responsibility of the government to not acknowlege race at all. There would be common sense exceptions to this rule of course.


I ecently heard someone ( i forget who) say something to the effect "whenver a group of people put their identity obove that of the whole society, blood begins to flow". He was refering to those countries where religious and cultural classhes lead to daily bloodshed. In america the goal is to identify ourselves first as americancs before all other considerations. I think it is a worthy goal.


As for the articly itself; I think Sowell makes a very good truthful point as usual.
 

Amused

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Apr 14, 2001
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<< Bombs and bullets are often equally ineffective at changing the minds and certainly hearts of people.

No, but the correlation alone is very compelling. For nearly one hundred years previous, black families were very strong, and that strength erroded right along with the creation of AA and the welfare state. I posit that government programs created a lack of personal responsibility and self respect.

So are clouds and rain (correlated) but you don't grab an umbrella for every cirrus you see. The majority of black families ARE very strong. A disappointly large number are not. Granted, I have the same opinion about white families. It is clear that the DESIGN of our welfare system along with other elements of society have helped sustain a cycle of poverty; predominantly white but disproportionately black (particularly urban). But how can you castigate people for a lack of self respect when the rule of law up until the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was to deny equality on ANY basis . .
>>



I don't need a history lesson, however, what you need to understand is that black families remained strong fairly consistently throughout the time between the end of the civil war and the 50s. That was my point.

I do not believe black culture lost it's self respect do to pre-civil rights treatment. Quite the contrary. I believe that popular black culture became far more self depreciating and destructive after '64, and is evidenced in the extremely high rates of broken families.
 

Red Dawn

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<< do not believe black culture lost it's self respect do to pre-civil rights treatment. Quite the contrary. I believe that popular black culture became far more self depreciating and destructive after '64, and is evidenced in the extremely high rates of broken families. >>

Isn't that true for all American Families no matter what race they are?




<< BUT, civil rights as an education campaign and the change of social attitudes has had a positive effect. Few understand that laws cannot, and have never changed the hearts and minds of the people. You can't make a person love their fellow man by threatening them with jail or fines. If anything, you get a negative backlash >>

In this case it might not of had an immediate effect on the current generation at the time but it did have a positive effect on the generations that followed. Regarding the negative backlash, if some whites resent the fact that black were given the same opportunities and rights as them by laws to Fscking bad, obviously they are just ignorant crackers and their voices mean sh!t, just like those here at ATOT who always whine about Blacks this and Blacks that. In my opinion they are just losers who are dissatisfied with their own station in life and use the ignorant method of blaming others as a scapegoat to falsely portray themselves as victims when in truth it's their own ignorance and shortcomings that is the true fault. I've never been a victim of Afirmative Action and I doubt these racebaiting whiners ever have been a victim of Affirmative Action. While I might not always agree with AA, in my opinion it definately isn't a major problem in American Society and as a Law or Program it hasn't effected American Society negatively. If there wasn't any AA those losers who whine and snivel about AA and Blacks in generalwould find another Scapegoat to blame because weak individual's always find it easier to blame other for their failings instead of examining their own shortcomings and work to improve upon them.

Saying that the Civils Rights Laws have hurt the Blacks is a new tactic and on the surface it deoesn't sound as racist as saying that black aren't the equals of whites, but if you examine what it is that's being said carefully you'll see that it really is same the same thing. To declare the Movement as a failure because a few of it's leaders like Jackson and Sharpton are corrupt is ludicrous and to say that since "64 that the black Family has disentregrated because of it is also BS when the truth is it hasn't only been the black Families, but American Families in General that have become truly disfunctional.
 

Amused

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Apr 14, 2001
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<<

<< do not believe black culture lost it's self respect do to pre-civil rights treatment. Quite the contrary. I believe that popular black culture became far more self depreciating and destructive after '64, and is evidenced in the extremely high rates of broken families. >>

Isn't that true for all American Families no matter what race they are?
>>



Yes, it is. However, the breakdown of black families has been disproportionately higher than any other race. I firmly believe this was do to government programs that specifically targeted blacks and ended up making them feel they could not succeed on their own.
 

Red Dawn

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<< However, the breakdown of black families has been disproportionately higher than any other race. I firmly believe this was do to government programs that specifically targeted blacks and ended up making them feel they could not succeed on their own.

>>

You don't think living in an impoverished enviroment has anything to do with it because the percentage of Blacks who live in blighted areas is disproportionately higher than any other race?