His pension is $76,111 - a month

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boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
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Maybe rather than being pissed off about someone's $76k/month pension, states should stop hiring athletic coaches for seven figures thus necessitating said 76k pensions later on? Otherwise it’s like buying a luxury car then bitching about how high the monthly loan payments are.
It's like the company that's going under that cleans house of upper management and promotes from within. The culture doesn't change, just the faces.

It's all going to self-correct at some point. Pretty it won't be, messy it more than likely will be. I can sit back and watch the world burn as well as the next guy. I can't do anything about it so I may as well enjoy the show.

We elected a guy that's trying to turn it all around and he's doing a damned good job of it but he won't be there forever. Sooner or later the same imbeciles that think they're the smartest of the smart will be in charge and they'll have us back on the fast track to that Venezuelan lifestyle they're so enamored of. The ransacking of veterinarian's offices for drugs is going to be awesome to watch though.

Math is a bitch. It can catch up to you in a big, big way.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,695
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Does that make sense to you? The people being forced to pay have no ability to negotiate. It is by definition not what you said it was. You have parties that are negotiating with other people's money, which is the antithesis of Laissez-faire.

" is an economic system in which transactions between private parties are free from government intervention such as regulation, privileges, tariffs and subsidies."

Do you now see the problem?
The people aren't being forced to pay.

The ability to negotiate was handled in the previous election.

Welcome to representative government 101.

I can sit back and watch the world burn as well as the next guy. I can't do anything about it so I may as well enjoy the show.

We elected a guy that's trying to turn it all around and he's doing a damned good job of it but he won't be there forever.

It isn't so much funny that you say that out loud, as much as it's funny that you believe this.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
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The people aren't being forced to pay.

The ability to negotiate was handled in the previous election.

Welcome to representative government 101.



It isn't so much funny that you say that out loud, as much as it's funny that you believe this.

The people are being forced to pay. Democracy in this case has overridden capitalism.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,695
8,095
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The people are being forced to pay. Democracy in this case has overridden capitalism.
You think Democracy should be subservient to an arbitrary economic system that isn't mentioned, curiously enough, anywhere in the Constitution? Because representative democracy, aka a democratic republic, is the very basis of the US Constitution.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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We elected a guy that's trying to turn it all around and he's doing a damned good job of it but he won't be there forever.

So, budget busting tax cuts for the Rich are a way to turn it around? Or are you simply delusional?
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
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You think Democracy should be subservient to an arbitrary economic system that isn't mentioned, curiously enough, anywhere in the Constitution? Because representative democracy, aka a democratic republic, is the very basis of the US Constitution.

No. I think its dumb to say that this is Laissez-faire when its not. That is what I said, and is my point, that is the topic. If you want to talk about something else, feel free, but it was not my point nor the current topic.
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
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Why do you bother? He's simply pissing on your shoes.

Because it's important to remind everyone of the mindset behind it - of an old simpeton that's willing to burn everything down because they've failed at life and want to draw everyone down into it.
 
Nov 25, 2013
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Because it's important to remind everyone of the mindset behind it - of an old simpeton that's willing to burn everything down because they've failed at life and want to draw everyone down into it.

I guess I'm just old and had enough of 'trying to do the right thing' with idiots like that. It's sad, I suppose, but I'm reduced to tossing simple ridicule at them for the most part as I no longer give enough of a damn to bother treating them, or what they have to say, seriously. Occasionally I'll toss in some actual fact(s) to counter some idiocy or other but mostly I just can't be bothered. <shrug>
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,636
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Interesting. How does capitalism corrupt the state?

Because capitalism produces large (and increasing) inequalities of wealth, and wealth buys political power.
It also encourages the same economic-status-competition among state employees that exists among everyone else.

Ages ago the Economist devoted most of an issue to a variety of stories all pleading in different ways for 'capitalists' to altruistically worry about defending 'capitalism' rather than their own individual self-interest. The trouble is there's a contradiction in doing that.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
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No. I think its dumb to say that this is Laissez-faire when its not. That is what I said, and is my point, that is the topic. If you want to talk about something else, feel free, but it was not my point nor the current topic.

What do you think of the non-profit hospital industry consolidating the shit out of hospitals and moving them out of the inner city? Last year, a huge conglomerate bought the inner city hospital (St Joes) my daughter was born in promising not to close it. Well they announced a week or so ago that they were cutting most services. This leaves Milwaukee with 1 full service inner city hospital...... 1. In 1977, there were 10. Meanwhile, Oconomowoc (with a whopping population of 15,000) has 3:
Oconomowoc Memorial Hospital
Rodgers Memorial Hospital
Aurora Medical Center

All of these hospitals are trying to outswank the others. Turning their hospitals to luxury spas. Check out Rodgers.
https://rogersbh.org/locations/oconomowoc

So why has America allowed non-profits which are supposed to serve a greater good do this? What do you think it does for race relations when blacks see all their hospitals closed up and a glut of mammoth luxury hospitals opening FAR FAR away from them in all white communities?
 
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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
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Because capitalism produces large (and increasing) inequalities of wealth, and wealth buys political power.

Capitalism bring inequality but raises the bottom. All other system bring inequality but maintain or lower the bottom. The powerful always influence political power. Its human nature to use power for your own benefit.

It also encourages the same economic-status-competition among state employees that exists among everyone else.

No, that is human nature. I think its wrong to attribute jealousy to capitalism.

Ages ago the Economist devoted most of an issue to a variety of stories all pleading in different ways for 'capitalists' to altruistically worry about defending 'capitalism' rather than their own individual self-interest. The trouble is there's a contradiction in doing that.

I agree, it is dumb. Capitalism forces people to compete to gain wealth. The other system simply allow those people to take wealth. I would prefer the system that is marginally better.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
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Only if you think all markets are perfect.

Its dumb because it does not fit the conversation. Saying that this article is an example of laissez faire is stupid. His response to my comment in context is dumb.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
What do you think of the non-profit hospital industry consolidating the shit out of hospitals and moving them out of the inner city? Last year, a huge conglomerate bought the inner city hospital (St Joes) my daughter was born in promising not to close it. Well they announced a week or so ago that they were cutting most services. This leaves Milwaukee with 1 full service inner city hospital...... 1. In 1977, there were 10. Meanwhile, Oconomowoc (with a whopping population of 15,000) has 3:
Oconomowoc Memorial Hospital
Rodgers Memorial Hospital
Aurora Medical Center

All of these hospitals are trying to outswank the others. Turning their hospitals to luxury spas. Check out Rodgers.
https://rogersbh.org/locations/oconomowoc

So why has America allowed non-profits which are supposed to serve a greater good do this? What do you think it does for race relations when blacks see all their hospitals closed up and a glut of mammoth luxury hospitals opening FAR FAR away from them in all white communities?

Talking about our health system is going to be unproductive as I believe it is beyond both of us. What I will say is that the system we have created in the US is absurd. We have taken the worst parts of free market and state run and smashed them together to make a stupidly expensive system. Its a broken market because the state broke it. Not saying that the free market would work better here, but it would be better than the broken one the state has created.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
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I guess I'm just old and had enough of 'trying to do the right thing' with idiots like that. It's sad, I suppose, but I'm reduced to tossing simple ridicule at them for the most part as I no longer give enough of a damn to bother treating them, or what they have to say, seriously. Occasionally I'll toss in some actual fact(s) to counter some idiocy or other but mostly I just can't be bothered. <shrug>

So then why come here? P&N is a place where people like to debate and challenge their ideas. If you don't want to join in, then don't. You appear to be a person that thinks your opinion on right or wrong is valuable, and its not. The only real thing of value is if you can form an argument. If you cant, and engaging is making you unhappy or its not fulfilling, the move on.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
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Mike Belotti: Basically single handedly built a football program that brings the school about 30m in profit a year. Taxpayers complain that he gets a 2% of that profit a year....

As for Robertson - he is a public employee that also happens to be a surgeon in a very high salary field - the state fucked up by paying him so much and inflating the value of his pension. His salary seems to be in-line with high end surgeons, but if you give the proper value to the pension, he is then grossly overpaid. So the state definitely goofed on that one.
 

deathBOB

Senior member
Dec 2, 2007
569
239
116
It’s difficult to draw a conclusion without knowing the terms of the pension - how much were they required to put in? How did that compare to their pay? Did the pension compensate for some deficit in pay vs. the private sector?

Ultimately the issue is creating unfunded obligations. This is just another Boomer screw job - underfund the pension system while Boomers were working and shift the burden to their children while the Boomers are retiring.