HIPPA and pre-existing conditions

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: fisheerman

So pointing out another problem should persuade me that I should support UH how?

Nice one!

I think you should support SOME version of UH if the goal of UH is to keep more people healthy be giving more people access to health coverage.

Also, by increasing the pool of eligible buyers into the system, hopefully having some impact of decreasing overall cost.

or you can just try and keep your cash in your pocket, all the while healthcare costs rise and rise and rise....

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Jonks, they don't have to stay on corbra, they can go to another group plan and still not get hit with the prexisting stuff as they will have had no lapse in coverage. Some states you can get an individual HIPPA compliant plan. You guys keep thinking people are forced into this, there are plenty of options available to them.

As far as the single mother or other low income families - there are child insurance programs in most states along with state medical programs for them so they will be taken care of.

How do you get another group plan without getting another job that provides said group plan (and therefore has the "i just got a job here" open enrollment period for everyone coming in the door)?

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Sigh, this just gets old that you folks simply refuse to believe facts after I provide them time and time and time again.

Your "Facts" are horseshit, and people are simply seeing them for what they are.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Athena

Originally posted by: spidey07
Jonks, they don't have to stay on corbra, they can go to another group plan and still not get hit with the prexisting stuff as they will have had no lapse in coverage. Some states you can get an individual HIPPA compliant plan. You guys keep thinking people are forced into this, there are plenty of options available to them.

You just don't get it: the issue is not how to game the system and get covered by HIPAA, the goal is to get access to treatment in a manner that will not bankrupt an individual, his family, or government at any level. Just shopping around for an insurance plan doesn't provide security for anyone.

And for the record, HIPAA doesn't guarantee affordable coverage for pre-existing conditions; it just prohibits denial.

As far as the single mother or other low income families - there are child insurance programs in most states along with state medical programs for them so they will be taken care of.

Do you read any news that doesn't conform with what you want to believe? People are being dropped from Medicaid rolls all across the country and programs for the working poor have been frozen for over a year.

Sigh, this just gets old that you folks simply refuse to believe facts after I provide them time and time and time again.

actually, the fact is irregardless of what you THINK you may have solved...there are millions of Americans without coverage, plugging up our emergency rooms all across the country...adding to an overburdened health system.

Fact is, thousands of people die because they didn't seek medical treatment every year, because they couldnt afford it.

but, maybe you are ok with that....or maybe...they deserve to die because they had "options" in the system but "chose" poorly...

you are awful.

Seriously, I cringe when I hear him toss away human life like it is a wrecked car.

It's scary that people can fall into a set of ideals in a way where they just follow the societal order, even if it means that people WILL die from it.

Every group in history that has ever done that has been reviled by future generations for good reason.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: ahurtt
If you do need insurance and have what is deemed to be a "pre-existing" condition and you cannot be denied coverage because of it, then the insurer will take that pre-existing condition into account and figure out some other trumped up reason to use to deny you. They're crooks and swindlers, the lot of 'em. And not just health care providers but the whole insurance industry is a racket in general.

Actually it isn't a racket it is a business. They are in it to make a profit while providing a service that people want. You can very easily self insure and go it alone.

Odds are you will come out ahead if you invest well and don't have any major health setbacks

That is the problem. American's health shouldn't be a business where profit rules all.

So what should it be a government run entity? Been to the DMV lately?

No thanks

A Government run PAYMENT entity. You act like all hospitals would suddenly convert to run exactly like "The DMV" (which really hasn't been bad since the 80's - early 90's). Which is an intellectually dishonest implication.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: spidey07
Special K - see here, it depends on the state. Also you don't have to get an individual policy, you could jump on a group one and that would be covered under HIPPA. This is why it's normally best to talk to a broker/agent who knows the best course of action.

http://www.statehealthfacts.or...able.jsp?cat=7&ind=356

Would this be different than buying a plan from ehealthinsurance? Are all of those plans going to be individual ones?

It depends on your state and the plans. That's why it's always best to talk to a broker.

LOL, Another middle man. How many more can we think up?

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: spidey07
Jonks, they don't have to stay on corbra, they can go to another group plan and still not get hit with the prexisting stuff as they will have had no lapse in coverage. Some states you can get an individual HIPPA compliant plan. You guys keep thinking people are forced into this, there are plenty of options available to them.

As far as the single mother or other low income families - there are child insurance programs in most states along with state medical programs for them so they will be taken care of.

How do you get another group plan without getting another job that provides said group plan (and therefore has the "i just got a job here" open enrollment period for everyone coming in the door)?

ohhh...you mean the part where you have to be at your job for a minimum of 90 days or something like that before you qualify for benes?

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Athena

Originally posted by: fisheerman
So what should it be a government run entity? Been to the DMV lately?

Why is it that health care reform opponents so often make this kind of comment as though it has any relevance to the discussion?

Why don't you ask Veterans who have actually used the VA whether they would prefer the care organized as their relatives get it? Or, ask how many 50 somethings who are caring for parents covered by Medicare whether they would prefer that Medicare was dissolved?

And as far as the DMV is concerned, almost all of our transactions with the DMV are online. I did have to appear in person for a matter today so I made an appointment 10 days ago. I had a 12:00 appointment, checked in 15 minutes early and was back in my car at 12:02. What's not to like about that?

Exactly. Mine is like this as well.

If your state DMV really sucks so bad, perhaps you should re-consider your vote for your state's Secretary of State, the next time he/she's up for election.

 

[DealMonkey]

So this thread is full of FAIL? That's what I figured . . .

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Seriously, I cringe when I hear him toss away human life like it is a wrecked car.

It's scary that people can fall into a set of ideals in a way where they just follow the societal order, even if it means that people WILL die from it.

Every group in history that has ever done that has been reviled by future generations for good reason.

what I find even more cringe worthy is his story about his mom. Because if his story is true that his mom died enduring an illness then she used the services she had available to her via her coverage.

I guess he doesnt have the empathy required to see how others would SUFFER, if they have no means to afford the coverage that his mom had.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Carmen813


Perhaps in your little reality you've destroyed pre-existing conditions, but for the millions of Americans who have pre-existing conditions (like me), you've done...well...jack and shit. Honestly, do you think you are the first person to think of this solution? Stop patting yourself on the back.

As others have pointed out, Cobra premiums are insane (especially once this stimulus assistance runs out). I know, because I tried to pay them for just my wife for a couple months when she transitioning offer her parents insurance when we got married. If you have a single minute with a lapse in coverage, you are totally fucked, and I definitely think insurance companies are looking for that minute.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you are utterly clueless when it comes to the problems people with pre-existing conditions have when it comes to insurance. Again, no disrespect, but you really need to put yourself in someone else's shoes for a minute. Try that evil "empathy" thing conservatives railed against a few months ago.

As for the study, I thought it was an interesting and would share it. If you want to award yourself points, knock yourself out, I'm just not sure you can redeem them anywhere.

1st off, lapsing coverage is bad, but you have 62 days (minor correction needed, the OP has the laws) before it counts.

You've explained your point nicely with personal experience and I respect your post in kind. But nothing is/was preventing you from getting a new job with group insurance benefits to take care of your wife. That's the whole point - work, provide, get benefits, take care of yourself and your wife.

Believe it or not I have a whole lot of empathy, but I pulled my ass out of it without assistance and maybe that's why I am what I am. If one wants to work, there is work for you.

Real life is pretty damn difficult.

Spidey07, this is just for reference, you do not have to answer if you don't want to. I'm just curious:
what your household income is (approximately, 10-20k range will be sufficient), how many people you are supporting on that income, and what area of the country you are living in?

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Carmen813


Perhaps in your little reality you've destroyed pre-existing conditions, but for the millions of Americans who have pre-existing conditions (like me), you've done...well...jack and shit. Honestly, do you think you are the first person to think of this solution? Stop patting yourself on the back.

As others have pointed out, Cobra premiums are insane (especially once this stimulus assistance runs out). I know, because I tried to pay them for just my wife for a couple months when she transitioning offer her parents insurance when we got married. If you have a single minute with a lapse in coverage, you are totally fucked, and I definitely think insurance companies are looking for that minute.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you are utterly clueless when it comes to the problems people with pre-existing conditions have when it comes to insurance. Again, no disrespect, but you really need to put yourself in someone else's shoes for a minute. Try that evil "empathy" thing conservatives railed against a few months ago.

As for the study, I thought it was an interesting and would share it. If you want to award yourself points, knock yourself out, I'm just not sure you can redeem them anywhere.

1st off, lapsing coverage is bad, but you have 62 days (minor correction needed, the OP has the laws) before it counts.

You've explained your point nicely with personal experience and I respect your post in kind. But nothing is/was preventing you from getting a new job with group insurance benefits to take care of your wife. That's the whole point - work, provide, get benefits, take care of yourself and your wife.

Believe it or not I have a whole lot of empathy, but I pulled my ass out of it without assistance and maybe that's why I am what I am. If one wants to work, there is work for you.

Real life is pretty damn difficult.

Spidey07, this is just for reference, you do not have to answer if you don't want to. I'm just curious:
what your household income is (approximately, 10-20k range will be sufficient), how many people you are supporting on that income, and what area of the country you are living in?

I can answer that

Beverly Hills
950K
party of 1!!!

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: spidey07
Jonks, they don't have to stay on corbra, they can go to another group plan and still not get hit with the prexisting stuff as they will have had no lapse in coverage. Some states you can get an individual HIPPA compliant plan. You guys keep thinking people are forced into this, there are plenty of options available to them.

As far as the single mother or other low income families - there are child insurance programs in most states along with state medical programs for them so they will be taken care of.

How do you get another group plan without getting another job that provides said group plan (and therefore has the "i just got a job here" open enrollment period for everyone coming in the door)?

ohhh...you mean the part where you have to be at your job for a minimum of 90 days or something like that before you qualify for benes?

No, not that, because that waiting period usually applies regardless.

Open enrollment is when you are allowed to enroll in your company's group plan. Usually there is a 1-2 week period at some point in the year where anyone can get in to the employer's plan, this period is called "open enrollment".


"Open enrollment" is also offered to individuals when they have a qualifying life event. This usually means one of a few things.
1. I just got a job here.
2. I just got married / divorced.
3. I just had a kid.
(there are usually a few others, I just can't think of any more).

If your employer offers a group policy, and you do not have coverage through your employer (say you got your coverage from your spouse's employer), and wish to start said coverage at a random time during the year, they will tell you "no, you have to wait for open enrollment". The only time you can enroll is during open enrollment.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

No, not that, because that waiting period usually applies regardless.

Open enrollment is when you are allowed to enroll in your company's group plan. Usually there is a 1-2 week period at some point in the year where anyone can get in to the employer's plan, this period is called "open enrollment".


"Open enrollment" is also offered to individuals when they have a qualifying life event. This usually means one of a few things.
1. I just got a job here.
2. I just got married / divorced.
3. I just had a kid.
(there are usually a few others, I just can't think of any more).

If your employer offers a group policy, and you do not have coverage through your employer (say you got your coverage from your spouse's employer), and wish to start said coverage at a random time during the year, they will tell you "no, you have to wait for open enrollment". The only time you can enroll is during open enrollment.

ahhh yes. My open enrollment period just expired.

Its annual...every September.

I wonder what the mandatory wait period is for my employer before you can enroll in benes.....I dont think it is only during the open enrollment period.

Edot: its different for every employer of course...

 

[Carmen813]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Carmen813


Perhaps in your little reality you've destroyed pre-existing conditions, but for the millions of Americans who have pre-existing conditions (like me), you've done...well...jack and shit. Honestly, do you think you are the first person to think of this solution? Stop patting yourself on the back.

As others have pointed out, Cobra premiums are insane (especially once this stimulus assistance runs out). I know, because I tried to pay them for just my wife for a couple months when she transitioning offer her parents insurance when we got married. If you have a single minute with a lapse in coverage, you are totally fucked, and I definitely think insurance companies are looking for that minute.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you are utterly clueless when it comes to the problems people with pre-existing conditions have when it comes to insurance. Again, no disrespect, but you really need to put yourself in someone else's shoes for a minute. Try that evil "empathy" thing conservatives railed against a few months ago.

As for the study, I thought it was an interesting and would share it. If you want to award yourself points, knock yourself out, I'm just not sure you can redeem them anywhere.

1st off, lapsing coverage is bad, but you have 62 days (minor correction needed, the OP has the laws) before it counts.

You've explained your point nicely with personal experience and I respect your post in kind. But nothing is/was preventing you from getting a new job with group insurance benefits to take care of your wife. That's the whole point - work, provide, get benefits, take care of yourself and your wife.

Believe it or not I have a whole lot of empathy, but I pulled my ass out of it without assistance and maybe that's why I am what I am. If one wants to work, there is work for you.

Real life is pretty damn difficult.

It's a question of short-term or long-term risk/reward. Sure, I could have dropped out of college in order to get a job that provided insurance. Of course long term that would have been a terrible decision. You may argue that I should have worked full time and attended college, sadly that is something I am physically incapable of doing. Chemo/Radiation takes a lot out of you, and it can take years for energy levels to return. This month marks 3 years of remission since I finished treatment and my energy levels are still depleted.

Now, instead, my wife and I went on medicaid. I focused on school and received good grades. This enabled me to get a full scholarship to earn a master's degree. I now have a bit more energy, so I work 12-15 hours a week tutoring 4th/5th graders in an inner city school, a job that pays really well.

I'd also disagree that work is available if you want to work. Between undergrad/grad school I looked for a full time job. It took me 4 months to find a position that paid $7.50 an hour, and that was a summer only position. It's extremely difficult to find jobs right now where I live.

It's not simply a matter of working hard and pulling yourself up by the bootstraps. I've worked hard my entire adult life. I was in Air force ROTC to pay for my engineering degree before I was diagnosed with cancer. I can count on one hand the number of college parties I've attended in six years of education. I resumed my college education 2.5 months after finishing radiation therapy (which was preceded by six months of chemotherapy). I continue to work hard to do well in graduate school.

You don't need to tell me real life is difficult, I'm just saying we don't need to leave it that way. My wife and I are cancer survivors. Pre-existing conditions are a major problem that we face. Literally every decision we make is impacted by whether or not it will affect our health insurance. I had to seriously consider turning down a $30,000 scholarship because my Medicaid might not have transferred across county lines. This new tutoring job I took that pays nearly $20 an hour might cost me my public insurance, but not pay enough to buy my own coverage (because it's not even possible for me to do that.) My efforts shouldn't be punished because I was unlucky enough to get sick, and I shouldn't have a disincentive to take a good paying job that doesn't have benefits.

This isn't politics to me, this is life and death. I'm not asking for sympathy, but empathy. In other words, put yourself in my shoes and try to make the best decision. It's not as easy as getting a job and working hard. That's oversimplifying the problem and ignoring the struggles of your fellow citizens, many (and I would argue the majority) of whom are trying to do the right thing. The fact is that I don't want a handout, I just want things to be a little easier.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: spidey07
Jonks, they don't have to stay on corbra, they can go to another group plan and still not get hit with the prexisting stuff as they will have had no lapse in coverage. Some states you can get an individual HIPPA compliant plan. You guys keep thinking people are forced into this, there are plenty of options available to them.

As far as the single mother or other low income families - there are child insurance programs in most states along with state medical programs for them so they will be taken care of.

How do you get another group plan without getting another job that provides said group plan (and therefore has the "i just got a job here" open enrollment period for everyone coming in the door)?

You join another group plan. You don't have to get a job to do this.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: spidey07
Jonks, they don't have to stay on corbra, they can go to another group plan and still not get hit with the prexisting stuff as they will have had no lapse in coverage. Some states you can get an individual HIPPA compliant plan. You guys keep thinking people are forced into this, there are plenty of options available to them.

As far as the single mother or other low income families - there are child insurance programs in most states along with state medical programs for them so they will be taken care of.

How do you get another group plan without getting another job that provides said group plan (and therefore has the "i just got a job here" open enrollment period for everyone coming in the door)?

ohhh...you mean the part where you have to be at your job for a minimum of 90 days or something like that before you qualify for benes?

No, not that, because that waiting period usually applies regardless.

Open enrollment is when you are allowed to enroll in your company's group plan. Usually there is a 1-2 week period at some point in the year where anyone can get in to the employer's plan, this period is called "open enrollment".


"Open enrollment" is also offered to individuals when they have a qualifying life event. This usually means one of a few things.
1. I just got a job here.
2. I just got married / divorced.
3. I just had a kid.
(there are usually a few others, I just can't think of any more).

If your employer offers a group policy, and you do not have coverage through your employer (say you got your coverage from your spouse's employer), and wish to start said coverage at a random time during the year, they will tell you "no, you have to wait for open enrollment". The only time you can enroll is during open enrollment.

You're refering to a life qualifying event, loss of job is one of them.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: spidey07
Jonks, they don't have to stay on corbra, they can go to another group plan and still not get hit with the prexisting stuff as they will have had no lapse in coverage. Some states you can get an individual HIPPA compliant plan. You guys keep thinking people are forced into this, there are plenty of options available to them.

As far as the single mother or other low income families - there are child insurance programs in most states along with state medical programs for them so they will be taken care of.

How do you get another group plan without getting another job that provides said group plan (and therefore has the "i just got a job here" open enrollment period for everyone coming in the door)?

You join another group plan. You don't have to get a job to do this.

See but that means that someone might have to take personal responsibility, not be lazy, and actually put some effort into something.

 

[JKing106]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: spidey07
Jonks, they don't have to stay on corbra, they can go to another group plan and still not get hit with the prexisting stuff as they will have had no lapse in coverage. Some states you can get an individual HIPPA compliant plan. You guys keep thinking people are forced into this, there are plenty of options available to them.

As far as the single mother or other low income families - there are child insurance programs in most states along with state medical programs for them so they will be taken care of.

How do you get another group plan without getting another job that provides said group plan (and therefore has the "i just got a job here" open enrollment period for everyone coming in the door)?

You join another group plan. You don't have to get a job to do this.

See but that means that someone might have to take personal responsibility, not be lazy, and actually put some effort into something.

If you ever have terminal cancer, are paralyzed, or otherwise unable to work to make premium payments, I hope someone says what you just typed to your face. Then, I hope they throw you on the street.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: spidey07
Jonks, they don't have to stay on corbra, they can go to another group plan and still not get hit with the prexisting stuff as they will have had no lapse in coverage. Some states you can get an individual HIPPA compliant plan. You guys keep thinking people are forced into this, there are plenty of options available to them.

As far as the single mother or other low income families - there are child insurance programs in most states along with state medical programs for them so they will be taken care of.

How do you get another group plan without getting another job that provides said group plan (and therefore has the "i just got a job here" open enrollment period for everyone coming in the door)?

You join another group plan. You don't have to get a job to do this.

See but that means that someone might have to take personal responsibility, not be lazy, and actually put some effort into something.

So, personal responsibility means paying $10k for insurance for 3 people while insurance companies make 1000% profit over 5 years by wrongfully denying or canceling insurance with no penalties... gotcha..

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: spidey07
Jonks, they don't have to stay on corbra, they can go to another group plan and still not get hit with the prexisting stuff as they will have had no lapse in coverage. Some states you can get an individual HIPPA compliant plan. You guys keep thinking people are forced into this, there are plenty of options available to them.

As far as the single mother or other low income families - there are child insurance programs in most states along with state medical programs for them so they will be taken care of.

How do you get another group plan without getting another job that provides said group plan (and therefore has the "i just got a job here" open enrollment period for everyone coming in the door)?

You join another group plan. You don't have to get a job to do this.

You're a fvcking liar, and this is a call out. I hope the mods see your BS and ban your ass, along with your puppy dog Patranus.

Group coverage is almost exclusively available ONLY through (a) employment, or (b) COBRA or HIPAA (not HIPPA, you moron) continuation coverage pursuant to loss of job-related group coverage. The few exceptions are group policies offered through professional associations or trade groups, which MOST PEOPLE DON'T QUALIFY FOR and which typically are EXTREMELY expensive, and are getting rarer and rarer with each passing year.

Since you've made the bolded claim, above, and you're such an expert on insurance, please refer us to places on the web where high-quality group health insurance is offered to anyone that wants it, with no denial for pre-existing conditions.

Come on, we're waiting.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: shira
Since you've made the bolded claim, above, and you're such an expert on insurance, please refer us to places on the web where high-quality group health insurance is offered to anyone that wants it, with no denial for pre-existing conditions.

Come on, we're waiting.

You mean like any one of the non-profit co-ops that exist today?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: shira


You're a fvcking liar, and this is a call out. I hope the mods see your BS and ban your ass, along with your puppy dog Patranus.

Group coverage is almost exclusively available ONLY through (a) employment, or (b) COBRA or HIPAA (not HIPPA, you moron) continuation coverage pursuant to loss of job-related group coverage. The few exceptions are group policies offered through professional associations or trade groups, which MOST PEOPLE DON'T QUALIFY FOR and which typically are EXTREMELY expensive, and are getting rarer and rarer with each passing year.

Since you've made the bolded claim, above, and you're such an expert on insurance, please refer us to places on the web where high-quality group health insurance is offered to anyone that wants it, with no denial for pre-existing conditions.

Come on, we're waiting.

I've already posted a link, you just refuse to go to it. And the point of this thread was under HIPPA you CANNOT BE DENIED due to pre-existing conditions. Provided you've had coverage for 12 months with no lapse more than 62 days.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: spidey07
Jonks, they don't have to stay on corbra, they can go to another group plan and still not get hit with the prexisting stuff as they will have had no lapse in coverage. Some states you can get an individual HIPPA compliant plan. You guys keep thinking people are forced into this, there are plenty of options available to them.

As far as the single mother or other low income families - there are child insurance programs in most states along with state medical programs for them so they will be taken care of.

How do you get another group plan without getting another job that provides said group plan (and therefore has the "i just got a job here" open enrollment period for everyone coming in the door)?

You join another group plan. You don't have to get a job to do this.

See but that means that someone might have to take personal responsibility, not be lazy, and actually put some effort into something.

Hahaha, someone like you typing those words.

 

[Athena]

Originally posted by: spidey07
I've already posted a link, you just refuse to go to it. And the point of this thread was under HIPPA you CANNOT BE DENIED due to pre-existing conditions. Provided you've had coverage for 12 months with no lapse more than 62 days.

And the point is that HIPAA was designed for one reason -- to enable people to move from one employer-paid plan to another. It is true that the system can be gamed to get coverage for pre-existing conditions by paying elevated COBRA rates and/or shopping around for crummy psuedo group coverage but it does not, and was never intended to, address the issues of affordability or individual coverage.

In your alternate universe, it makes more sense for someone to enroll in a faux group plan just to meet the "creditable" insurance provisions of the act rather than focus on finding individual coverage that best fits his family's health needs. People should not be doing that, they should be concentrating on getting the treatment they need without bankrupting themselves or others.