Hillary's pastor defends Obama's

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Heh. So-called "Conservatives" seem to think they can wave the magic wand of denial, erase hundreds of years of racism and the results of it...

Blacks didn't segregate themselves from White America, create the "black community" on a voluntary basis, at all- it was forced on them, along with all it entails. Just because change is taking place doesn't mean that the whole thing is over, done, finished, all better now. The effects and attitudes will linger for generations to come.

The only reason attitude linger for generations, is because it is passed on. It doesn't need to be. Rev. Wright just encourages this type of attitude and promotes more self segregation, prolonging the problem.

So if a man like the Rev Wright has an occasional fit of frustration, tries to point out that things aren't as hunky-dory as rightwing pollyannas might claim, he's earned the right, whether that's well received or not. Sometimes the truth hurts. Sometimes people can't handle the truth, particularly when it's the simple fact that White racism still has potency, and continues to adversely effect anybody deemed "black". The current wave of sentiment against affirmative action is a symptom of a strong desire to just forget about the whole idea of racial justice, sweep it under the rug, leave the grand goals of equality and integration in the dustbin of history.

People are against affirmative action, because we want people/government to quit looking at people's skin color! The whole judged by the "content of their character, not the color of their skin."

And attempts to paint Wright as racist on the basis of a few angry remarks are blatantly and self-servingly racist themselves, while attempting to transfer the puffed up mock outrage onto somebody who never uttered them even worse. The smug self-righteousness involved in the attempt to do so is symptomatic of a mind diseased by simplistic sloganeering and pandering to the worst of our irrational natures.

Honestly i don't care what Rev Wright says/preaches/believes. They can run their "black" church how ever they want.

What i do have a problem with is a politician who is attempting to become the President who :
a. Was involved with a church for 20 years, that was extremely focused on race.
b. Who's "mentor" makes racially charged statements, wild claims and who curses America.

Rev. Wright looks at the world through such race tinted vision that aids is government conspiracy to keep people of color down or three strike laws were devised to keep black people in prison. A person with that type a vision should not be mentoring our potential future leaders.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: shrumpage


What i do have a problem with is a politician who is attempting to become the President who :
a. Was involved with a church for 20 years, that was extremely focused on race.
b. Who's "mentor" makes racially charged statements, wild claims and who curses America.

Rev. Wright looks at the world through such race tinted vision that aids is government conspiracy to keep people of color down or three strike laws were devised to keep black people in prison. A person with that type a vision should not be mentoring our potential future leaders.

I have a problem with the lack of judgement from a guy with no record (some on purpose) that is running for president on the "I have better judgement" platform. not to mention he lucked into getting his senate seat.

 

[PokerGuy]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: PokerGuy

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
I'd like to see the Reverend Wright issue recede into the background, as I regard it as a red herring when we have much more substantive issues to debate

Absolutely not. Obama has a very short track record, so we have very little to go on to figure out if he's the right person for the most powerful position in the world. To me this is an issue that goes to the very core of the man. If you not only attend a church where such racist rants and ideas are accepted, but also take the man making racist and looney comments to be your "moral compas" in life, that says a lot about the candidate and his qualifications to be a leader for all Americans. To me the answer is a resounding "no", and I hope this issue continues to get hammered home all the way through to November to make sure the public gets to see it.

I really take exception to the proposition that there were any "racist rants." Some of the things he said are statements I wouldn't myself embrace, but taken in context they are hardly outrageous and certainly not racist IMO. This is a man who has been an ordained minister in a racially mixed church, in predominantly white denomination, for 30 years. He has been a leader for the rights of women and gays in the church as a whole, and his record is generally impressive. I am not defending the entirety of his comments, but I also think he's unfairly being portrayed as a wacko.

If you view some of the "sermons" that were on youtube, I can not characterize them as anything but racist and frankly disturbing rants. Hardly outrageous? Saying that AIDS is a government conspirace against people of color is not outrageous? I disagree. At worst, the guy is a racist nutcase. At best, he's a divisive figure who makes stupid statements. I'm highly suspect of the judgement of anyone who uses this guy as his "moral compas". If it was just a matter of "hey, I disagree with him on this stuff, but I like the church and the community", perhaps it's different, but that's not the case. Clearly, by holding the guy up as your moral compas, you've at least tacitly endorced his crazy ideas.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
I really take exception to the proposition that there were any "racist rants." Some of the things he said are statements I wouldn't myself embrace, but taken in context they are hardly outrageous and certainly not racist IMO. This is a man who has been an ordained minister in a racially mixed church, in predominantly white denomination, for 30 years. He has been a leader for the rights of women and gays in the church as a whole, and his record is generally impressive. I am not defending the entirety of his comments, but I also think he's unfairly being portrayed as a wacko.

I agree with you that most of the criticism leveled at him as a racist is overblown, as Wright's anger is focused more on the de facto discrimination that incontrovertibly exists in America, even if it is at an institutional level. We have only 1 black Senator and the number of Fortune 500 CEOs that are black is probably around the same number.

But some of what you said is seriously misleading.

From the official church website: http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

"We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community."

The denomination itself may be predominantly white, but this church is anything but. Not that there's anything wrong with that per se, but to characterize him as a preaching to a mixed race congregation is on it's face absurd. This is a black church.

Also, I find accusing the US gov't of creating AIDS to kill blacks to certainly be outrageous. And if he believes that, then 30 years of preaching or no, he's a wacko IMO.

Ultimately I don't think the Wright issue should be swaying people either for or against Obama. No candidate is perfect and this is certainly in the negative column for him. But when Obama wins the nom, he'll get my vote in the general, even though I still don't think Obama has given a good reason why he stayed at this place for 20 years with his family.