JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,459
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Originally posted by: Vic
No, I didn't. Should somebody tell them about the curse of C. Thomas Howell?
The makeup job they did for Downey Jr. was amazing. It's nearly impossible to tell it's him and it's been screened and seems to be getting pretty good reviews and reactions.
Did you even watch the video yourself?? So she gave a speech at Christmas in Belfast... big deal. That doesn't give any proof of her "involvement" with N Ireland. That speech could have been given by Sinbad or the Dixie Chicks or the valedictorian of your high school graduating class. The other excerpt from 2007 doesn't mean anything either- it was merely her promising to help N Ireland when she became president. No mention of her "involvement in helping to bring peace to N Ireland, although she managed to squeeze in a bit about "that wonderful Christmas in 1995." Too funny.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes...attleground/#more-4492
In a scathing statement from a former Clinton administration official, Greg Craig, who worked in the State Department under President Bill Clinton but is now backing Mr. Obama, Mr. Craig said there was ?no reason to believe? that ?she was a key player in foreign policy at any time during the Clinton administration.?
?She did not sit in on National Security Council meetings. She did not have a security clearance. She did not attend meetings in the Situation Room. She did not manage any part of the national security bureaucracy, nor did she have her own national security staff. She did not do any heavy-lifting with foreign governments, whether they were friendly or not. She never managed a foreign policy crisis, and there is no evidence to suggest that she participated in the decision-making that occurred in connection with any such crisis.
As far as the record shows, Senator Clinton never answered the phone either to make a decision on any pressing national security issue ? not at 3 a.m. or at any other time of day.?
- Sep 10, 2003
- 16,755
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And?
We're talking about Obama VS Clinton. And the only positive reason given for making the idiotic move of nominating Hillary Clinton is the fact that she is "experienced." The fact of the matter is that she is not, especially in foreign policy matters. She has basically been lying for months about her foreign policy credentials all this time, and only now is the media addressing it.
But I thought that the media was biassed against her?????!!!! :roll:
Thump553
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
- 12,669
- 2,424
- 126
Morph:
Lord Trimble the former (Briitish) First Minister of the area was the co-winner (along with John Hume) of the Nobel Peace Prize for acheiving that peace. As First Minister, he clearly was a major player in that process, as expressly recognized by the award of the Nobel Prize.
Lord Trimble had this to say on point in a recent interview with the Telegraph:
Hillary Clinton had no direct role in bringing peace to Northern Ireland and is a "wee bit silly" for exaggerating the part she played, according to Lord Trimble of Lisnagarvey, the Nobel Peace Prize winner and former First Minister of the province
"I don?t know there was much she did apart from accompanying Bill [Clinton] going around," he said. Her recent statements about being deeply involved were merely "the sort of thing people put in their canvassing leaflets" during elections. "She visited when things were happening, saw what was going on, she can certainly say it was part of her experience. I don?t want to rain on the thing for her but being a cheerleader for something is slightly different from being a principal player."
Mrs Clinton has made Northern Ireland key to her claims of having extensive foreign policy experience, which helped her defeat Barack Obama in Ohio and Texas on Tuesday after she presented herself as being ready to tackle foreign policy crises at 3am.
"I helped to bring peace to Northern Ireland," she told CNN on Wednesday. But negotiators from the parties that helped broker the Good Friday Agreement in 1998 told The Daily Telegraph that her role was peripheral and that she played no part in the gruelling political talks over the years.
----------------
Lord Trimble shared the Nobel Peace Prize with John Hume, leader of the nationalist Social Democratic and Labour Party, in 1998. Conall McDevitt, an SDLP negotiator and aide to Mr Hume during the talks, said: "There would have been no contact with her either in person or on the phone. I was with Hume regularly during calls in the months leading up to the Good Friday Agreement when he was taking calls from the White House and they were invariably coming from the president."
----------------------
Please note that both sides of the negotiations back up Trimble's viewpoint as to Hillary's noninvolvement.
Telegraph article
Hillary seems to have taken the natural inclination to resume padding to a new level, and to me at least, reflects very negatively on her credibility and character.
Lord Trimble the former (Briitish) First Minister of the area was the co-winner (along with John Hume) of the Nobel Peace Prize for acheiving that peace. As First Minister, he clearly was a major player in that process, as expressly recognized by the award of the Nobel Prize.
Lord Trimble had this to say on point in a recent interview with the Telegraph:
Hillary Clinton had no direct role in bringing peace to Northern Ireland and is a "wee bit silly" for exaggerating the part she played, according to Lord Trimble of Lisnagarvey, the Nobel Peace Prize winner and former First Minister of the province
"I don?t know there was much she did apart from accompanying Bill [Clinton] going around," he said. Her recent statements about being deeply involved were merely "the sort of thing people put in their canvassing leaflets" during elections. "She visited when things were happening, saw what was going on, she can certainly say it was part of her experience. I don?t want to rain on the thing for her but being a cheerleader for something is slightly different from being a principal player."
Mrs Clinton has made Northern Ireland key to her claims of having extensive foreign policy experience, which helped her defeat Barack Obama in Ohio and Texas on Tuesday after she presented herself as being ready to tackle foreign policy crises at 3am.
"I helped to bring peace to Northern Ireland," she told CNN on Wednesday. But negotiators from the parties that helped broker the Good Friday Agreement in 1998 told The Daily Telegraph that her role was peripheral and that she played no part in the gruelling political talks over the years.
----------------
Lord Trimble shared the Nobel Peace Prize with John Hume, leader of the nationalist Social Democratic and Labour Party, in 1998. Conall McDevitt, an SDLP negotiator and aide to Mr Hume during the talks, said: "There would have been no contact with her either in person or on the phone. I was with Hume regularly during calls in the months leading up to the Good Friday Agreement when he was taking calls from the White House and they were invariably coming from the president."
----------------------
Please note that both sides of the negotiations back up Trimble's viewpoint as to Hillary's noninvolvement.
Telegraph article
Hillary seems to have taken the natural inclination to resume padding to a new level, and to me at least, reflects very negatively on her credibility and character.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
Sorry, I think this whole thread is silly. Of the three, McCain, Hillary, and Obama, I think Hillary is far more knowledgeable about the foreign policy issues.
Its quite apparent GWB knew nothing about foreign policy going in and has learned less than nothing since. McCain seems to offer nothing but a military solution in Iraq when virtually everyone knows a military solution is untenable, and Obama has really disgusted me on his positions of Pakistan that can only speak to his ignorance about the explosive politics of the region.
And Hillary is best positioned to get the quality advisers needed to run a hit the ground running foreign and domestic policies. All three may be outrageously hyping their experience,
but of the three, it still must be a comparative subject regarding all three.
And its precisely that lack of comparison on this thread that can only speak to a thread only about irrational Hillary hatred.
On Balance I may favor Obama, but lets at least be intellectually honest. What about McCains's credentials and contacts? What about Obama's credentials and contacts? The thing that strikes me about McCain is that he knows the names of our military leadership, but its the Iraqis that must decide because our military has been a flop on delivering any political progress in either Iraq or Afghanistan. Do any of you seriously think we can be in an Iraqi quagmire for another 100 years?
Its quite apparent GWB knew nothing about foreign policy going in and has learned less than nothing since. McCain seems to offer nothing but a military solution in Iraq when virtually everyone knows a military solution is untenable, and Obama has really disgusted me on his positions of Pakistan that can only speak to his ignorance about the explosive politics of the region.
And Hillary is best positioned to get the quality advisers needed to run a hit the ground running foreign and domestic policies. All three may be outrageously hyping their experience,
but of the three, it still must be a comparative subject regarding all three.
And its precisely that lack of comparison on this thread that can only speak to a thread only about irrational Hillary hatred.
On Balance I may favor Obama, but lets at least be intellectually honest. What about McCains's credentials and contacts? What about Obama's credentials and contacts? The thing that strikes me about McCain is that he knows the names of our military leadership, but its the Iraqis that must decide because our military has been a flop on delivering any political progress in either Iraq or Afghanistan. Do any of you seriously think we can be in an Iraqi quagmire for another 100 years?
Arkaign
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2006
- 20,736
- 1,377
- 126
Forgive my ignorance, but how exactly was the Bosnia effort a 'fiasco'? I'd hardly rank it up there with our nation's great accomplishments, but I think it's entirely irrational to equate the Iraqi debacle with the Bosnia campaign.
From all I've seen, the NATO/US casualties were few, and the peace achieved a substantial improvement to the chaos that initiated the intervention.
It was a fiasco because the perpetrator of it was brought up on war crime charges and was standing trial at the Hague when he died instead of being blown up or hung before he could have potentially let out any U.S. secrets about how they helped him and his regime to remain in power for 30+ years.
Thump553
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
- 12,669
- 2,424
- 126
Lemon Law:
You make some very good points. I think that quality advice and quality judgment will trump "experience" any day. Please remember though that a very large number of former (Bill) Clinton advisors are now in the Obama camp.
BTW, I (at least) am not a Hillary hater. I think Bill Clinton was one of the best Presidents in my lifetime, and I was born in Eisenhower's day. I supported Hillary until probably the end of January or so. I changed my mind basically because I feel her high negatives will make her unelectable in a general election, and if elected, her entire (one) term will be characterized by partisan battles, a lot of smoke and very little accomplishment. Frankly her actions since I jumped ship have done nothing but reinforce my decision.
You make some very good points. I think that quality advice and quality judgment will trump "experience" any day. Please remember though that a very large number of former (Bill) Clinton advisors are now in the Obama camp.
BTW, I (at least) am not a Hillary hater. I think Bill Clinton was one of the best Presidents in my lifetime, and I was born in Eisenhower's day. I supported Hillary until probably the end of January or so. I changed my mind basically because I feel her high negatives will make her unelectable in a general election, and if elected, her entire (one) term will be characterized by partisan battles, a lot of smoke and very little accomplishment. Frankly her actions since I jumped ship have done nothing but reinforce my decision.
Originally posted by: Arkaign
That's pretty irrelevant to the comparison of Iraq v. Bosnia campaigns.
I was being facetious and just trying to chide the Iraq war supporters. But thanks for the cookie....it was getting close to lunch and I was in need of a snack.
I think that the campaign in Bosnia was handled about as well as it could have been. If I am correct, there wasn't a single US casualty and it was over in just a matter of months. Also, in less than a decade since, one of the warring sides is declaring its independence.
Correction: according to Wiki..... there was a single combat death (12 total) and 6 wounded.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,415
- 14,305
- 136
I suppose with 20/20 hindsight Bosnia could be seen as a success (especially compared to the Iraq disaster), but there was significant anti-war sentiment at the time. Or at least there was out here on the left coast.
Anyway, I wasn't trying to equate them except as far as the whole "wartime President" BS, this 3am nonsense that Hillary is spouting is a "dog whistle" to military interests.
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 173
- 106
While I don't care for McCain, to assert that Hillary is more knowlegable or experienced in foreign affairs than he is questionable at best. He actually has real experience in the area. She does not.
Lumping those guys in with Hillary and her "outrageously hyping experience" is not fair to either of them.
Hillary has a long and well documented history of lying (named after Sir Edmund Hillary etc), whether about important or trivial affairs. I suppose it can be fairly said that all polititions lie, but the frequency and extent of Hillary's puts her in a class by herself. To me anyway, such a habit of lying ought to be of consideration in choosing a President.
Fern
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Was there any doubt she was lying? Sure, this confirms it with no possible weasel room but it really didn't take this level of pwnage to know she was lying.
in her zeal to one-up obama and mccain in the area of experience, hillary has only managed to bring closer scrutiny of her claims of being more "experienced" than the other guys. makes me wonder what her resume now looks like after this little tidbit was brought out to the harsh light of media awareness.
i can only imagine how many firings have occured throughout the occupational world where resume fraud was discovered. but hey, it's fraud only if the accuser can do anything about it eh?
i can only imagine how many firings have occured throughout the occupational world where resume fraud was discovered. but hey, it's fraud only if the accuser can do anything about it eh?
NFS4
No Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 72,647
- 26
- 91
pwned by Sinbad and video, gotta love it
Her aides say she "misspoke"
http://news.aol.com/political-...inton-on-bosnia-story/
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
Anyone care to address why it's "required" or "more appropriate" for SNL to hire a black actor to portray half-white half-black Obama?
Hey Sinbad, Fred Armisen is Venezuelan-Japanese, not white. You irrelevant presumptive schmuck. This ain't "blackface": http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2...does_not_wear_bla.html
So how does he turn himself into the country's potentially first black president? "It's really quick," Armisen said. "There's shading on my eyebrows and plastic behind my ears. And there's a little bit of something called Honey, a honey color, that is something I would wear when I play Prince."
Beyond inappropriate Vic? As Seth and Amy would probably say, Really?
ED: ha! just realized the URL is "fred armisen does not wear bla..." even though it's nowhere on that page.
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