Hilary shifts to the center

[XMan]

Kudos to her for admitting what is only logical. A rapid withdrawal would bring about another massacre along the lines of what happened after we left Vietnam.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/19/news/dems.php

 

[nageov3t]

hasn't that kinda been her position from the beginning?

you'd have to be crazy to advocate a full, immediate withdraw of all combat forces.

 

[palehorse]

where is the "I told you so" emoticon?

Just wait until she finally admits to years, rather than months...

oh ya, here it is:

Originally posted by: loki8481
you'd have to be crazy to advocate a full, immediate withdraw of all combat forces.

Then I guess that we have to put Murtha, Boxer, and Pelosi in that category, for starters...

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Then I guess that we have to put Murtha, Boxer, and Pelosi in that category, for starters...

I'd be more inclined to try Murtha for treason before voting for him

he's one of the biggest scums in Washington, along with Stevens and Byrd.

 

[senseamp]

Up to 20 months is better than what we'll get with any Republicans who think any timetable is bad, and keep writing blank checks for this war.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Up to 20 months is better than what we'll get with any Republicans who think any timetable is bad, and keep writing blank checks for this war.

Permanent installations a la South Korea are the only way to create lasting stability in the region. Iraquis are simply not fit nor capable of ruling or policing themselves.

 

[piasabird]

Hillary has to get elected first. People often tell you one thing during an election and then do the exact opposite.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: loki8481
hasn't that kinda been her position from the beginning?

you'd have to be crazy to advocate a full, immediate withdraw of all combat forces.

No, she's changed her position at least a half-dozen times since her campaign began.

It wasn't all that long ago she said "Elect me President and I'll bring those troops home!" only to recant the very next day.

Billary is just like Kerry in '04; She's going whichever way the political winds are blowing. And she'll suffer the same defeat...

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: loki8481
hasn't that kinda been her position from the beginning?

you'd have to be crazy to advocate a full, immediate withdraw of all combat forces.

No, she's changed her position at least a half-dozen times since her campaign began.

It wasn't all that long ago she said "Elect me President and I'll bring those troops home!" only to recant the very next day.

Billary is just like Kerry in '04; She's going whichever way the political winds are blowing. And she'll suffer the same defeat...

When did Hilary ever say she wouldn't bring the troops home? Her plan has always been a phased withdrawal. She never once said that she would yank everyone out of Iraq the day she took office. She has always said she'd end the war.

The only people that think she's changed are those who couldn't understand or those that deliberately mis-represent what she says.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: loki8481
hasn't that kinda been her position from the beginning?

you'd have to be crazy to advocate a full, immediate withdraw of all combat forces.

It's much more interesting to pretend she has been crying for an all out, immediate withdrawal.

 

[Narmer]

Does anybody actually believe her?

 

[heyheybooboo]

Gee . . . . not much bias here . . . . or in the photo prominantly displayed on each page of the article.

/sarcasm

 

[StageLeft]

Ch*** what a @*#(ing mess your president has gotten this country into.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: Narmer
Does anybody actually believe her?

does anyone actually believe what any politician says?

I am beginning to wonder if I should believe some of their actions?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: senseamp
Up to 20 months is better than what we'll get with any Republicans who think any timetable is bad, and keep writing blank checks for this war.

Permanent installations a la South Korea are the only way to create lasting stability in the region. Iraquis are simply not fit nor capable of ruling or policing themselves.

Where you going to place these "permanent installations"? Along the entire periphery of Iraq?

What about Afghanistan?

 

[XMan]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Gee . . . . not much bias here . . . . or in the photo prominantly displayed on each page of the article.

/sarcasm

The International Herald Tribune is owned by the New York Times. Are you claiming the NYT is biased against Hilary?

 

[Rainsford]

Only in politics is it possible to mock someone for AGREEING with you. In any other arena, making a good argument and convincing someone who had previously disagreed with you would be a nice boost to your ego, and would raise your opinion of the other person for having seen the light of reason even though it forced them to admit that they were wrong. But not if you're a conservative...to them, changing your mind, even if it's in a good direction, is admitting defeat and weakness and will subject you to even more vicious mockery than when you disagreed with them.

If anyone is curious as to why I despise "conservatives", this is why. I have no problem with someone holding a view I disagree with and trying to convince me that their way is better, as a scientists and an engineer, I'd be pretty hypocritical to reject in politics what is the foundation of my field. But righties don't seem to be like that, it's not about convincing anyone or making a valid argument...it's about nothing more than cheap political point scoring. And on this topic in particular, I get the strong impression that if Democrats turned around and supporting staying in Iraq, Republicans would be protesting for immediate pull-out the very next day.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: senseamp
Up to 20 months is better than what we'll get with any Republicans who think any timetable is bad, and keep writing blank checks for this war.

Permanent installations a la South Korea are the only way to create lasting stability in the region. Iraquis are simply not fit nor capable of ruling or policing themselves.

We already had a lasting stability with Iraq when Saddam was in power. It was no better or worse than our lasting stability with North Korea and our lasting stability with Cuba. Plus our lasting stability and permanent installations with the Saudis payed dividends on 9/11. And yet we have reasonably good relations with VietNam, which we left alone to deal with their mess.

 

[XMan]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Only in politics is it possible to mock someone for AGREEING with you. In any other arena, making a good argument and convincing someone who had previously disagreed with you would be a nice boost to your ego, and would raise your opinion of the other person for having seen the light of reason even though it forced them to admit that they were wrong. But not if you're a conservative...to them, changing your mind, even if it's in a good direction, is admitting defeat and weakness and will subject you to even more vicious mockery than when you disagreed with them.

If anyone is curious as to why I despise "conservatives", this is why. I have no problem with someone holding a view I disagree with and trying to convince me that their way is better, as a scientists and an engineer, I'd be pretty hypocritical to reject in politics what is the foundation of my field. But righties don't seem to be like that, it's not about convincing anyone or making a valid argument...it's about nothing more than cheap political point scoring. And on this topic in particular, I get the strong impression that if Democrats turned around and supporting staying in Iraq, Republicans would be protesting for immediate pull-out the very next day.

This isn't about making political points at all, to me. This is about Hilary's hypocrisy.

And FYI, I supported Clinton when he attacked Saddam. Heck, I supported him when he bombed Afghanistan and Sudan. Those were responses to us being attacked using the best intelligence we had at the time.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: XMan
This isn't about making political points at all, to me. This is about Hilary's hypocrisy.

what hypocrisy, though? I don't recall Hillary ever advocating an immediate / full withdraw of all combat forces (I don't recall anyone sane making that argument, really).

 

[XMan]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: XMan
This isn't about making political points at all, to me. This is about Hilary's hypocrisy.

what hypocrisy, though? I don't recall Hillary ever advocating an immediate / full withdraw of all combat forces (I don't recall anyone sane making that argument, really).

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/03/AR2007050301683.html">Clinton's position on the Iraq war has been a subject of constant debate among Democrats as they weigh the candidates seeking the presidential nomination. She voted to authorize the war, but has long criticized the Bush administration's handling of the conflict. While others have called for an immediate withdrawal, Clinton has favored redeploying troops out of Iraq within 90 days.

She also supports a goal of removing all combat troops except those needed for residual missions by March 2008.
</a>

90 days, 20 months, eh, pretty close I guess.

From her website:

She has also proposed a cap on troop levels to January 1, 2007 levels and put forth a comprehensive roadmap for ending the war. If it is followed, Hillary's bill, the Iraq Troop Protection and Reduction Act of 2007, will end the war before the next president takes the oath of office.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: XMan

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: XMan
This isn't about making political points at all, to me. This is about Hilary's hypocrisy.

what hypocrisy, though? I don't recall Hillary ever advocating an immediate / full withdraw of all combat forces (I don't recall anyone sane making that argument, really).

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/03/AR2007050301683.html">Clinton's position on the Iraq war has been a subject of constant debate among Democrats as they weigh the candidates seeking the presidential nomination. She voted to authorize the war, but has long criticized the Bush administration's handling of the conflict. While others have called for an immediate withdrawal, Clinton has favored redeploying troops out of Iraq within 90 days.

She also supports a goal of removing all combat troops except those needed for residual missions by March 2008.
</a>

90 days, 20 months, eh, pretty close I guess.

From her website:

She has also proposed a cap on troop levels to January 1, 2007 levels and put forth a comprehensive roadmap for ending the war. If it is followed, Hillary's bill, the Iraq Troop Protection and Reduction Act of 2007, will end the war before the next president takes the oath of office.

Another clueless. Yes, she wants to redeploy within 90 days, but it may take months and months to complete. Her position has always been a safe withdrawl from Iraq. She has the experience to know that you need a safe and detailed plan to pull out of Iraq.

 

[umbrella39]

Still waiting for some sort of proof that her posistion has "shifted to the center". Pst, that would require you to show that her position was to the "far left" or whateverthefuckthatis before having "shifted to the center". You have failed to do so as of 23:21 EST. Hmm, that would seem to only be possible if you can pull something out that shows she is/was for a 100% total troop withdraw.

 

[bbdub333]

Originally posted by: Hacp
She has the experience to know that you need a safe and detailed plan to pull out of Iraq.

She does? From where? Her only claim to experience was being the wife of Clinton while he was president.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: bbdub333

Originally posted by: Hacp
She has the experience to know that you need a safe and detailed plan to pull out of Iraq.

She does? From where? Her only claim to experience was being the wife of Clinton while he was president.

hasn't she been on the armed services committee for like 6 years?