Highlights of the Tax Package Before the Senate

[fskimospy]

as long as its not you, who cares right? tax them to hell and back, its not my familys money so just take it all!...

You are obviously emotionally invested in this, think with your head instead of your emotions.

 

[piasabird]

These tax cuts from bush are already in effect, so extending them does not cost anything. Cant fix stupid!

 

[HendrixFan]

as long as its not you, who cares right? tax them to hell and back, its not my familys money so just take it all!...

You are assuming that a random poster on a forum is 100% accurate in his portrayal of someone else's estate tax situation.

There are credits you can earn against the estate tax, there is the exclusion amount (which can be stacked when leaving estates to multiple people), and for the case of the poster's relatives - exemption designed specifically for family farms.

Of the 440 taxable family farm and business estates in 2004, two out of five paid an average rate of only 1.6 percent. These were taxable estates valued at less than $2 million.Very large estates valued at over $20 million paid at an average effective rate of just over 22 percent, a hefty tax bite but well short of "everything."

...

These 440 taxable estates are those for which farm or business assets made up at least half the total value of the estate. They represent only 2 percent of all 18,800 taxable estates in 2004.

...

Worth noting is that family-owned farms and closely held businesses already receive special treatment under current law. Heirs who agree to keep the farm or business assets within the family for 10 years after death can reduce the taxable amount of the estate by 40 percent to 70 percent. And if the farm or business is at least 35 percent of the gross value of the estate, payments can be spread out over 14 years.

Looking at the actual facts, chances are pretty good that this "relative" cashed out the family farm and told the rest of the family they had to, when in fact it was just an excuse to turn land into cash.

 

[thegimp03]

You are assuming that a random poster on a forum is 100% accurate in his portrayal of someone else's estate tax situation.

There are credits you can earn against the estate tax, there is the exclusion amount (which can be stacked when leaving estates to multiple people), and for the case of the poster's relatives - exemption designed specifically for family farms.



Looking at the actual facts, chances are pretty good that this "relative" cashed out the family farm and told the rest of the family they had to, when in fact it was just an excuse to turn land into cash.

Hmm, looking at information from a study done in 2004, after the Bush tax cuts, and trying to apply it to something that happened to a relative of mine in the mid-90s. Makes total sense considering that the exemption amount in the 1990s was ~$600k.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Handy-men are paid with after tax dollars, I guess their income shouldn't be taxed.

Residential contractors are paid with after tax dollars, guess we shouldn't tax them either.

Photographers, painters, crafters, etc, etc, all get paid with after tax dollars, show according to you none of them should be taxed.

That's a transaction, dumbass. You're paying someone for a service. Ever heard of sales/income tax?

Inheritance shouldn't be subject to more than standard income tax. Death tax is WAAAAAY higher.

 

[HendrixFan]

Hmm, looking at information from a study done in 2004, after the Bush tax cuts, and trying to apply it to something that happened to a relative of mine in the mid-90s. Makes total sense considering that the exemption amount in the 1990s was ~$600k.

The estate tax rules have always been moving, but mostly based on numbers. You gave nearly no specifics, just a broad statement.

If the family farm was left to multiple relatives, each would have the $600k exemption before any taxes were to be paid. Thanks to the Qualified Family-Owned Business Interest Deduction it would have qualified to have the taxes paid off over the course of 15 years, so if it were mid 90s they could still be paying taxes on it. Those taxes would have been at a reduced rate as long as the ownership stayed in the family. Again, that is only for valuation above the $600k level (per person).

If you have more information to provide to help give us a clearer picture, please do so.

 

[HendrixFan]

That's a transaction, dumbass. You're paying someone for a service. Ever heard of sales/income tax?

Inheritance shouldn't be subject to more than standard income tax. Death tax is WAAAAAY higher.

Not true for almost every estate. Income was not tax free for the first $650k (per person even if married) up until 2001, nor did that balloon up to $5 million tax free.

What percentage of estates would you think pay more than the amount had it been income?

 

[Jhhnn]

That's a transaction, dumbass. You're paying someone for a service. Ever heard of sales/income tax?

Inheritance shouldn't be subject to more than standard income tax. Death tax is WAAAAAY higher.

That's not true at all, and hasn't been for some time. Extremely wealthy families have a variety of ploys they can use to drastically reduce estate taxes- it's called estate planning. Farmers and ranchers have even more ways to do so.

Given the exemption amount to be high enough, very few estates have been subject to rates that even approach normal income tax rates. Various attempt to treat inheritance as income have been greeted with even greater raving and moaning that the estate tax, which reveals the truth of the situation.

I really don't have a problem with the higher exemptions in the current legislation, at all, but rather with the 35% rate on amounts above that. It is, after all, *free money* to the heirs, along with a great deal of power that the wealthiest among them have done nothing to earn, at all.

 

[Zorba]

That's a transaction, dumbass. You're paying someone for a service. Ever heard of sales/income tax?

Inheritance shouldn't be subject to more than standard income tax. Death tax is WAAAAAY higher.

Why don't you read what I quoted, where CPA said there should be no estate tax, i.e. no income tax on inheritance. I never stated my position on the actual tax rate. I was just saying that it isn't the only income that comes from post tax dollars. I personally think inheritance should be treated like normal income, with a somewhat high exemption. Just like winning the lotto, except for the exemption.

 

[shiner]

It passed and is going to the President's desk to be signed.

 

[DietDrThunder]

Threads like these convince me more and more that civil war is inevitable. I hope we quickly develop a uniform of sorts that makes it clear who's on which side.

The uniforms have already been developed.

#1 - For those who want to share their hard earned wealth, and let the government decide who needs it the most, there is this uniform:

#2 - For those who want to keep their wealth and pass this wealth on to support their families, there is this uniform:

When the time comes, I think I'll wear uniform #2.

 

[fskimospy]

Civil War is inevitable, huh? I can't wait to see what the battle cry is this time. "Give me tax breaks for estates over $1.5 million or give me death!".

I mean lots of people view the poor farmers fighting to perpetuate slavery in the first Civil War were chumps, but this would rise to a whole new level. Then again, since the majority of the richest and most productive states are blue states, maybe the Union will just let the south and midwest go. No great loss.

 

[Red Dawn]

The uniforms have already been developed.

#1 - For those who want to share their hard earned wealth, and let the government decide who needs it the most, there is this uniform:

#2 - For those who want to keep their wealth and pass this wealth on to support their families, there is this uniform:

When the time comes, I think I'll wear uniform #2.

Yeah but uniform#1 comes in your size.

 

[Acanthus]

Civil War is inevitable, huh? I can't wait to see what the battle cry is this time. "Give me tax breaks for estates over $1.5 million or give me death!".

I mean lots of people view the poor farmers fighting to perpetuate slavery in the first Civil War were chumps, but this would rise to a whole new level. Then again, since the majority of the richest and most productive states are blue states, maybe the Union will just let the south and midwest go. No great loss.

There is actually a term for that concept.

Lincolns Folly - The idea that north would now be better off without the south, and the bloodshed was worthless.

 

[feralkid]

Too bad weak ass Obama had to cave in to the Republicans demand to continue to give the Uber Rich tax breaks they don't need or deserve.

On the contrary, this is perhaps one of the most pivotal moments in his presidency. Perhaps even assuring re-election in 2012.


Says who?

Why, Charles Krauthammer, of course.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/12/17/1468680/barack-obama-the-new-comeback.html

 

[shiner]

Yeah but uniform#1 comes in your size.

Star Trek: The Husky Generation???

 

[fskimospy]

On the contrary, this is perhaps one of the most pivotal moments in his presidency. Perhaps even assuring re-election in 2012.


Says who?

Why, Charles Krauthammer, of course.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/12/17/1468680/barack-obama-the-new-comeback.html

Charles Krauthammer is a pretty awful columnist. Considering his track record, his prediction of Obama's re-election probably makes it less likely.

 

[Phokus]

On the contrary, this is perhaps one of the most pivotal moments in his presidency. Perhaps even assuring re-election in 2012.


Says who?

Why, Charles Krauthammer, of course.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/12/17/1468680/barack-obama-the-new-comeback.html

This is fucking retarded, the portion of the tax cuts for the rich are unpopular with the majority of Americans.

 

[spidey07]

This is fucking retarded, the portion of the tax cuts for the rich are unpopular with the majority of Americans.

Latest poll I saw had support for not raising current tax rates, at all levels including "the rich", was 58%. It's even in this thread. The People don't want any taxes raised.

 

[Phokus]

Latest poll I saw had support for not raising current tax rates, at all levels including "the rich", was 58%. It's even in this thread. The People don't want any taxes raised.

Source? Here's a bloomberg poll from december:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print...ighest-income-tax-cuts-unpopular-in-poll.html

Americans don’t approve of keeping the breaks for upper-income taxpayers that are part of the deal President Barack Obama brokered with congressional Republicans, a Bloomberg National Poll shows.

The survey, conducted before, during and after the tax negotiations, shows that only a third of Americans support keeping the lower rates for the highest earners. Even among backers of the cuts for the wealthy, fewer than half say they should be made permanent.

Another third say they want only the tax cuts for the middle class to be extended, while more than a fourth say all the tax cuts should be allowed to expire Dec. 31, as scheduled.

Even for the people who advocate a tax cut for the wealthy, a majority don't think it should be permanent.

You're so full of shit. WE THE PEOPLE, don't think the Rich should have a tax cut.

 

[feralkid]

Charles Krauthammer is a pretty awful columnist. Considering his track record, his prediction of Obama's re-election probably makes it less likely.

I pretty much agree, he can be a real putz at times; I just found his take interesting, considering his conservative pedigree.

Here's another:

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/opinion/commentary/article_4b59f62a-ce34-5e0d-9682-8216f22a23f6.html

 

[HendrixFan]

Even for the people who advocate a tax cut for the wealthy, a majority don't think it should be permanent.

You're so full of shit. WE THE PEOPLE, don't think the Rich should have a tax cut.

I hope you rid him of this thread. Most of these long threads spidey participates in come to a point where he disappears when his "facts" get exposed as lies.