High regard for US harder to find than WMD in Iraq

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
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NYT
February 5, 2004
U.S. Image Abroad Will Take Years to Repair, Official Testifies
By CHRISTOPHER MARQUIS

ASHINGTON, Feb. 4 ? Margaret D. Tutwiler, in her first public appearance as the State Department official in charge of public diplomacy, acknowledged Wednesday that America's standing abroad had deteriorated to such an extent that "it will take us many years of hard, focused work" to restore it.

Ms. Tutwiler, the former ambassador to Morocco, was recently tapped to try to address rising hostility toward the United States in much of the Muslim world.

In testimony before a House appropriations subcommittee, she agreed with the main findings of an independent panel that American outreach has suffered from budget cuts and neglect since the end of the cold war.

"Unfortunately, our country has a problem in far too many parts of the world," she said, "a problem we have regrettably gotten into over many years through both Democrat and Republican administrations, and a problem that does not lend itself to a quick fix or a single solution or a simple plan."

The findings were the result of an extensive bipartisan study led by Edward P. Djerejian, a former ambassador to Israel and Syria. The panel asserted that American prestige had dwindled, that much of its charity was overlooked and that its overall approach lacked strategic direction.

"The bottom has indeed fallen out of support for the United States," Mr. Djerejian, speaking after Ms. Tutwiler, told the subcommittee in his first public presentation of the report.

The report, requested by the subcommittee's Republican chairman, Frank R. Wolf of Virginia, was released in October. It identified systemic problems, including a lack of Arabic speakers in the State Department ? only five Americans are fluent and "TV ready," Mr. Djerejian said. It also noted the decline in the number of public diplomacy officers, from 2,500 in 1991 to 1,200 in 2003. The report urged a greater role for America's private sector, especially its media companies, in developing creative new ways to reach out to Arab youths.

The report, and Republicans on the subcommittee, urged placing a public diplomacy coordinator in the White House, with access to the president and a team that would scrutinize foreign perceptions.

But Ms. Tutwiler refused to embrace calls for the new position.

She also said she was determined to work within the existing budget of about $600 million for worldwide public diplomacy, which includes a wide range of efforts, including exchange programs, partnerships between American embassies and local institutions, distributing textbooks and supplying textbooks to local schools.

Mr. Wolf called the administration's overall response to the report "lackluster" and "disappointing."

Representative Jim Kolbe, an Arizona Republican, cited polls showing that only 15 percent of Indonesians, 7 percent of Saudis and 15 percent of Turks have a favorable image of America ? despite their governments' friendly relations with Washington.

He urged Ms. Tutwiler to be bolder in pressing her case with top administration officials. A former State Department spokeswoman and a close associate of former Secretary of State James A. Baker III, Ms. Tutwiler is seen as having powerful connections.

But Ms. Tutwiler replied: "My answer would be, based on experience of having worked in three White Houses that that would be less than well received, in all candor."

 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
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And that's how things work in Washington.

So who thinks G.T. acted any differently? He's sucking at the tail pipe of the Lord of the Rings in the White House just like every Deputy Assistant Under-Secretary of Nebulosity.

Anyway, it isn't just France and Germany, obviously, that think we are boobs. Just talk to any of your friends who travel abroad, particularly to Europe where candor is more common. My daughter is going to France this summer and I can only imagine what hostility she is going to encounter despite being fluent in the language and of at least partial French ancestry.

For this alone Bush should be drawn and quartered.

Nice post, BBD. :cool:

-Robert
 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
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who cares what a bunch of third rate and has-been countires think? perhaps those dedicated to superficiality and who define self worth on the opinions of them by others.

of course nations like france and co. hate us! many of our ancestors were the best, the brightest, the bravest...and they left to make a new country, leaving the old world to mire itself in mediocrity.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
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Shadohawk:

How can you go that deep, and still come up for air? :p

-Robert
 
Jan 12, 2003
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What have France and Germany done for the world? What Europe, as a whole, done in the last, say, 20 years? All you would-be Cosmopolitans should wake up and smell the napalm. They all put their interests ahead of the world?s interest?wake me up when France and Germany do something that impacts the world and makes it a better place.
 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
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Originally posted by: chess9
Shadohawk:

How can you go that deep, and still come up for air? :p

-Robert


by thinking for myself, determining my own self worth and laughing heartily at the imbecility that surrounds me, all that laughter is good exercise for the lungs.

:)

 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
wake me up when France and Germany do something that impacts the world and makes it a better place.

Well, wake up then. The EU, with france and germany at its heart, has done more for democracy, capitalism and stability in Eastern Europe than the US has. Thus, they have made life better for many many people there. If they let Turkey starts its ascention talks, they will help transform it from an abusive authoritarian state to a normal, stable, democratic country.
 
Jan 12, 2003
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Oh, and I left Canada off the list out of respect to you, but if you want to include what your country has done, by all means....
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
who cares what a bunch of third rate and has-been countires think? perhaps those dedicated to superficiality and who define self worth on the opinions of them by others.

of course nations like france and co. hate us! many of our ancestors were the best, the brightest, the bravest...and they left to make a new country, leaving the old world to mire itself in mediocrity.

9/11 should make you care.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
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Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
who cares what a bunch of third rate and has-been countires think? perhaps those dedicated to superficiality and who define self worth on the opinions of them by others.

of course nations like france and co. hate us! many of our ancestors were the best, the brightest, the bravest...and they left to make a new country, leaving the old world to mire itself in mediocrity.
9/11 should make you care.
Being a human being should make one care. Maybe Genesys has a point about evolution.
 
Jan 12, 2003
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You guys sure cared about the people of Iraq before the Gulf Wars...where was the outrage when Saddam was lining human beings up against the wall and shooting them himself until he got bored? You guys are too funny...
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
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Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
wake me up when France and Germany do something that impacts the world and makes it a better place.

Well, wake up then. The EU, with france and germany at its heart, has done more for democracy, capitalism and stability in Eastern Europe than the US has.
Wrong answer. The United States.

Who constantly kicked, scream at, bitched at, criticized and literally held the hands of France and Germany for 41 years - from 1948-1989 - so both countries might finally affect some good in this world? The Staypufft Marshmellow Man? No, the United States.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
You guys sure cared about the people of Iraq before the Gulf Wars...where was the outrage when Saddam was lining human beings up against the wall and shooting them himself until he got bored? You guys are too funny...
Given that you're the ones who claimed our invasion was a humanitarian mission -- as the WMD ==> WMD programs ==> WMD-related programs ==> WMD-related program activities ==> WMD-related program activity intentions sham unravelled -- it seems to me that this remains your question to answer. Where was your outrage when Hussein was slaughtering his people?
 
Jan 12, 2003
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Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
wake me up when France and Germany do something that impacts the world and makes it a better place.

Well, wake up then. The EU, with france and germany at its heart, has done more for democracy, capitalism and stability in Eastern Europe than the US has.
Wrong answer. The United States.

Who constantly kicked, scream at, bitched at, criticized and literally held the hands of France and Germany for 41 years - from 1948-1989 - so both countries might finally affect some good in this world? The Staypufft Marshmellow Man? No, the United States.

Let's not forget our little Task Force Eagle trip down south...funny he only mentioned the east, though I have no idea what he is talking about. Remember Clinton's argument, 'The US can't allow the war to spill over into the rest of Europe'...guess Bill didn't know Germany and France was "at its heart" and providing stability.
 
Jan 12, 2003
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Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
You guys sure cared about the people of Iraq before the Gulf Wars...where was the outrage when Saddam was lining human beings up against the wall and shooting them himself until he got bored? You guys are too funny...
Given that you're the ones who claimed our invasion was a humanitarian mission -- as the WMD ==> WMD programs ==> WMD-related programs ==> WMD-related program activities ==> WMD-related program activity intentions sham unravelled -- it seems to me that this remains your question to answer. Where was your outrage when Hussein was slaughtering his people?

I called for war before 1991, sir...and went there in 1991 and was outraged we didn't oust him then....and find one "WMD" argument by me where I said the war was justified simply because of WMD claims...I said simply he needs to go, though I know he had WMD...we did what the rest of the world, because of their economic interests, would not do...sorry you don't see eye-to-eye with me on this one, but I respect your position...though it's pretty weak ;)
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
wake me up when France and Germany do something that impacts the world and makes it a better place.

Well, wake up then. The EU, with france and germany at its heart, has done more for democracy, capitalism and stability in Eastern Europe than the US has.
Wrong answer. The United States.

Who constantly kicked, scream at, bitched at, criticized and literally held the hands of France and Germany for 41 years - from 1948-1989 - so both countries might finally affect some good in this world? The Staypufft Marshmellow Man? No, the United States.

Let's not forget our little Task Force Eagle trip down south...funny he only mentioned the east, though I have no idea what he is talking about. Remember Clinton's argument, 'The US can't allow the war to spill over into the rest of Europe'...guess Bill didn't know Germany and France was "at its heart" and providing stability.
Oh yeah, how can we forget, fellow Iron Brigade soldier.

Remember in '91, after the Gulf War, when the Balkans fully erupted? What was it, almost 5 years before Europe finally decides on a course of action? And only then, because of the pending refugee crises. We also know who chaperoned the little excursion down there too.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
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Just as the pre-Copernicus ignoramuses believed the solar system revolved around the earth, flash forward to today when the same types now claim the rest of the planet revolves around the U.S. Pathetic.
 
Jan 12, 2003
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Remind me to post a link I have at work tomorrow...the town of Baumholder was featured in a Time report (I think time)...talking about how everyone is mad that the Army left and talks of relocating 1st AD when they return...said the town is going to collapse and everyone is mad at the German government for taking the position they did...a good read. Luckily, however, Germany and France is at the heart of the EU and will do some much for democracy, capitalism and stability in Baumholder than the US ever did.

Going to bed (metro @ 5:00 ist ganz früh), but maybe you can google it?was something like ?Saying Goodbye is so hard??query that and Baumholder and maybe you?ll stumble across it.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
You guys sure cared about the people of Iraq before the Gulf Wars...where was the outrage when Saddam was lining human beings up against the wall and shooting them himself until he got bored? You guys are too funny...
Given that you're the ones who claimed our invasion was a humanitarian mission -- as the WMD ==> WMD programs ==> WMD-related programs ==> WMD-related program activities ==> WMD-related program activity intentions sham unravelled -- it seems to me that this remains your question to answer. Where was your outrage when Hussein was slaughtering his people?

I called for war before 1991, sir...and went there in 1991 and was outraged we didn't oust him then....and find one "WMD" argument by me where I said the war was justified simply because of WMD claims...I said simply he needs to go, though I know he had WMD...we did what the rest of the world, because of their economic interests, would not do...sorry you don't see eye-to-eye with me on this one, but I respect your position...though it's pretty weak ;)
With all due respect, the topic of this thread (and my initial comment) is the political cost to America of Bush's belligerent approach to international relations. You diverted the topic by bringing up Iraq's slaughter of its own people. As you well know, I have a full set of arguments related to the impropriety of Bush's invasion; the sudden concern for Iraqi human rights by his supporters is only a side issue.

But I did support our actions in 1991, and offer my regards and gratitude for your service.
 
Jan 12, 2003
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Originally posted by: Bowfinger

With all due respect, the topic of this thread (and my initial comment) is the political cost to America of Bush's belligerent approach to international relations.

The costs are immaterial, in my view, if it makes the world a better place in the long-run...time will tell, of course, but don't believe everything the NYT prints: there are millions of Iraqis who are glad we did what we did...when I heard the "thanks, but where have you been....we've been waiting for you" lines in 1991, it brings tears to your eyes, dude...I would argue that you people against the war are selfish and not in a good way--you do not want to extend the same freedoms you enjoy here to the people around the world living in oppression...maybe the governments of France and Germany will think back to the way life was before they were pulled out from under oppressive regimes (in some cases, more than once) and side with reason in the future. Until then, we can and will go it alone?whether you like it or not.


 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
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Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
who cares what a bunch of third rate and has-been countires think? perhaps those dedicated to superficiality and who define self worth on the opinions of them by others.

of course nations like france and co. hate us! many of our ancestors were the best, the brightest, the bravest...and they left to make a new country, leaving the old world to mire itself in mediocrity.

9/11 should make you care.

it does, but i am willing to die in the pursuit of self determination at the hands of a terrorist than live a great cowardly wuss among a nation full of them that cowtows to opinion of third rate nations out of fear.

 

nutxo

Diamond Member
May 20, 2001
6,834
515
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If you actually think its ever been different you are mistaken.

Ive been to like 8 countries and the only people that generally are happy to see americans are prostitutes and shop keepers.

Hell, when my ship pulled into vancouver the morons rammed our ship with a speedboat ( think we should have let the morons drown but we recued them), the same afternoon I was stoned by an old woman.