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high milage volvo S40 or civic hybrid

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Dubb

Platinum Member
So the female who allows me to associate with her is unexpectedly shopping for a car - a drunk smashed her Saturn SL2 while parked on the side of the street over the weekend.

We've been looking at all the usual suspects in the $5-10k range, civic, corolla, accord, newer domestics, etc. Have come across two I'm not that familiar with.

One is an '02 Volvo S40 with 93k miles. Seems like it's in good condition but I've found a few reports of expensive maintenance issues with this car. Not sure what the usual expected lifespan for these things is.

The other is an '05 civic hybrid nearing 100k miles. With a normal civic I'd have no issues with it, but I'm not sure what the maintenance on the batteries, etc, are like.

Thoughts? Any other cars folks would suggest?
 
Yes, a newer used ford focus, hyundai elantra, Subaru Impreza, Mazda 3, Ford Fusion.

Don't do the S40. I've never heard one positive thing about the S40 (although admittedly I've never driven one). The repairs are guaranteed to be more expensive than a domestic or Asian brand.

My brother-in-law has the Civic Hybrid (I think it is a 2004...not 100% sure of the year though) and while it is a MAJOR snooze of a car, it seems to be reliable and he hasn't been complaining about any particularly high or unusual maintenance costs. My reason for avoiding it would be you get little for the extra you are paying. Just get a normal Civic.
 
The price of the civic hybrid is about in line with the other civics we've seen - asking is $8K


edit - although the dealer looks pretty shady. looks like that one's out.
 
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Dubb said:
The price of the civic hybrid is about in line with the other civics we've seen - asking is $8K


edit - although the dealer looks pretty shady. looks like that one's out.
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Still bullsh*t. I wish people would stop bowing down to Civics as if they are forged behind the gates of Heaven by the hands of Christ. $8k can buy a lot more car than a six year old civic with 100k on it, hybrid or not (those hybrid ones don't get particularly good mileage anyway, IIRC).
 
A civic hybrid is known to have a super crappy transmission
Google it
Add to Petes list, Vibe
 
The S40 is a nice ride, but maintenance costs will be pretty high compared to econo cars in that price range.

I'm also not sold on the Mazda 3's reliability. From what I've seen, it won't blow up or anything, but the small failures and maintenance add up quite a bit.

Ford Fusion might be a good choice, thought I'm not sure they go for <$10K. An early 2000's Subaru Legacy might be a good choice. If you can find an 05 Legacy 2.5i for a low enough price, that would be a great investment. Decent MPG, top safety ratings, AWD, reliable. I'm just not sure if those are under $10K - I know the Legacy GT's are in the low teens.

I'm just not sure the $5-10K range is good bang for the buck. I think you get a lot more value from a $3-5K car, or a $10K+ car. $5-10K just seems to include a bunch of cars that don't have a good set of features/values for the money.
 
I would say that even if the batteries did go on the Civic hybrid, you will be able to replace them for not too much money, especially if you can find one used at a scrapyard.

Batteries are only getting cheaper and better. If you need to replace it one day you could probably convert the car into a plug-in model whereby you could save even more $$$ on gas.

I've heard stories of Volvos lasting a ridiculously long time, but I don't know about that particular model.

If you do a lot of city driving, the Civic will be better for you. Otherwise, the Volvo may be more luxurious and a better car overall.
 
fbrdphreak said:
Ford Fusion might be a good choice, thought I'm not sure they go for <$10K.
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They definitely do...I did a quick search for another thread where I posted and there were a bunch of 2006-2007 fusions with ~70K miles and under $7500 price tag...and that is the asking...not what you're going to pay. You can definitely get a good deal on a reliable, safe car.
 
Skoorb said:
They used to but I believe their quality sucks now.
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I don't know if sucks is the right term...but they certainly are not the good old 240's. I have a friend who is HUGE into volvo and he says any of the older RWD volvo's are solid, "last forever" cars. As they moved toward FWD and started adding a lot of electric "goodies", they lost that simple, reliable stigma. I'm sure there are exceptions, but just looking at the "old volvos" that are on the road...they all seem to fit his description.
 
That civic for 8k is a crappy deal. I can't believe idiots have driven their market value up that high.

I drove one of those and it has to be the crappiest hybrid ever made as well, by the way. Saved a tiny bit of fuel but was not smooth in it's implementation AT ALL. (Compared to my other hybrid experiences in the Highlander and Prius)
 
Skoorb said:
Still bullsh*t. I wish people would stop bowing down to Civics as if they are forged behind the gates of Heaven by the hands of Christ. $8k can buy a lot more car than a six year old civic with 100k on it, hybrid or not (those hybrid ones don't get particularly good mileage anyway, IIRC).
Click to expand...

I would get like a 20K mile Hyundai or Yaris or something.
 
SickBeast said:
I would say that even if the batteries did go on the Civic hybrid, you will be able to replace them for not too much money, especially if you can find one used at a scrapyard.

Batteries are only getting cheaper and better. If you need to replace it one day you could probably convert the car into a plug-in model whereby you could save even more $$$ on gas.
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Um, no. Hybrid batteries are not cheap to replace and you won't be able to just go to a junk yard and find them. Any hybrids that are junked will be stripped of such items before hand and I imagine will require specific knowledge of the car's electrical system to remove.
 
I'd pick the civic over the volvo, too many electronics gremlins in the volvos. Have you considered something full size? Grandma cars can often be found for a good price with good maintenance records. Buicks, Oldsmobiles, Mercurys, etc. Most of the full size domestic vehicles get fair to good fuel mileage and are pretty reliable.
 
PricklyPete said:
I don't know if sucks is the right term...but they certainly are not the good old 240's. I have a friend who is HUGE into volvo and he says any of the older RWD volvo's are solid, "last forever" cars. As they moved toward FWD and started adding a lot of electric "goodies", they lost that simple, reliable stigma. I'm sure there are exceptions, but just looking at the "old volvos" that are on the road...they all seem to fit his description.
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I know a family that was big into them, they still have a '91 (?) 760 turbo that has like fifty million miles on it and it's still going. Some repairs but nothing absurd.
I drove one of those and it has to be the crappiest hybrid ever made as well, by the way.
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Honda's hybrid technology sucks swollen balls.
 
Skoorb said:
They used to but I believe their quality sucks now.
Click to expand...

Depends on the cars.

The first-generation S40 was based on a Mitsubishi platform and had a few, um, issues. The first-generation S60 and S80 cars had their own issues despite being Ford/Volvo.

The current S40 shares a lot with the Fusion and Mazda 6 as far as the chassis and is a much better car than the first-generation variants.

Most of the issues with reliability of newer Volvos has to do with increasing electronics complexity though. The old 240 (and even 960) cars were a lot simpler than today's power-everything, in-dash navigation, etc models and more gadgets means more things to go wrong. This is a general trend for all upmarket vehicles though.

There was definitely a dip in quality during the early 2000s, but IMO they're back on track now and as good as any comparable entry-luxury car. It'll probably never be as good as the old 240 cars if only because they aren't that simple anymore, but that's true of pretty much everything.

To the OP, definitely look at the Fusion. I'm very high on them as I've found them to be comfortable as well as reasonably athletic. If you don't care about sportiness, you might want to see if you can find a used Prius too. They're practical cars and they have a lot of interior room. I have trouble getting comfortable in them, and I think they're ridiculously boring to drive, but that doesn't stop me from recognizing them as a very good appliance-type car.

ZV
 
I would NOT buy a high-mile car with a CVT. I also would not buy a high mile Volvo.

For $8-10k, look for late-model Kia Optimas. I was always leery of Kia until recently. My girlfriend is in the same market right now..her Grand Am is falling apart. Anyhow, we drove an '08 Kia Optima with ~42k miles a few weeks ago, and it was really great. Plenty of power for getting around town, zero squeaks from the interior and the suspension felt great.

The Kia name may have a tarnished past, but keep in mind that they're build by Hyundai, who now produces world-class cars. Can't beat the warranty either.
 
well, Thanks for your input everyone. we spent the afternoon driving and shopping I read the thread a bit on my phone.

Eventually had it down to an '08 or '09 yaris (she likes small cars), or a reasonably tricked out, reasonably low mileage '06 civic EX, all right around $10K - civic a little over, yaris a little under. So we decided to set up camp and see where we could get on the civic, and after a few hours of games (we brought snacks and books), she had a car.

Looked at a couple focuses, definitely a good value now...would have considered one if we hadn't gotten somewhere more palatable on the civic, or there weren't so many very low mileage Yaris' around

other points - the civic hybrid batteries are apparently pretty easy to replace yourself with third party options. it's the CVT and other oddball engine related things that appear make it a maintenance nightmare.

fbrdphreak said:
I'm just not sure the $5-10K range is good bang for the buck. I think you get a lot more value from a $3-5K car, or a $10K+ car. $5-10K just seems to include a bunch of cars that don't have a good set of features/values for the money.
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Given the past few days of shopping, I think I'd agree with this. A good deal of it seems to be an attempt by dealers to set mental reference prices. We saw an awful lot of trash listed at $8-9k (90k '01 rusty civic anyone? $9k asking). .
 
Dubb said:
fbrdphreak said:
I'm just not sure the $5-10K range is good bang for the buck. I think you get a lot more value from a $3-5K car, or a $10K+ car. $5-10K just seems to include a bunch of cars that don't have a good set of features/values for the money.
Click to expand...

Given the past few days of shopping, I think I'd agree with this. A good deal of it seems to be an attempt by dealers to set mental reference prices. We saw an awful lot of trash listed at $8-9k (90k '01 rusty civic anyone? $9k asking).
Click to expand...

Eh, depends on what you're looking at. I bought both my 951 and my S70 in the $7,000 to $9,000 range. Both were clean and solid, but higher mileage (145,000 and 111,000 respectively) and I accepted that I'd have some maintenance to do. It does take some time to dig them out in this price range though.

ZV
 
Zenmervolt said:
Eh, depends on what you're looking at. I bought both my 951 and my S70 in the $7,000 to $9,000 range. Both were clean and solid, but higher mileage (145,000 and 111,000 respectively) and I accepted that I'd have some maintenance to do. It does take some time to dig them out in this price range though.

ZV
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True, and that's the tradeoff. You can get some sweet rides in that price range, but you have to be able to afford the maintenance. If you can do it yourself, it's that much better of a deal. For everyone else, not so much.
 
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