• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

High end ITX build critique?

E

etherealfocus

Senior member
Doing this one for a friend... it'll be mostly for LAN parties. He doesn't have a monitor yet but will probably be getting a 4K, no G-Sync.

His build goal is "fast as possible without being stupid".

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/VhW2LD

Specific concerns:

-91W CPU + 250W GPU = too much for even a good ITX case?

-Is there a better case I should be using? I was leaning toward a Bitfenix Prodigy for the handles, but reviews seem to prefer the Phantek.

-Intel 600p 1TB seems like a good compromise - nice sequential speeds mean it should load games and copy media faster than, say, an MX300 without the diminishing (for games) returns on a 960 Evo. M2 is nice just for reduced cabling. Agree?
 
Personally, I'd probably go with a slim case like the Silverstone Milo or Raven:

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=607

http://www.silverstonetek.com/raven/?area=en

They require an SFX PSU but there are plenty of good (and not overpriced) choices in this form factor. Only compromise is that you can't use a tower cooler, but it looks like you weren't planning to anyway.

EDIT: Regarding the SSD, I'd probably pony up the extra for the 960 myself, but realistically the difference between it and even a traditional SATA drive will be small. M.2 without question though.
 
the prodigy was not meant to be lugged around by its handles.
Those aren't real handles, but more aesthetics, and i can see them breaking if you jerk it.

I have one, and i would never carry the prodigy minus lifting it for a few seconds by those handles.

Phantex Enthoo ITX is probably my first choice if your looking for budget.
Then it would be a fractal Node 304 if you need a small case with a ton hdd bays for a future nas of some sort.

And both of the cases above are smaller then the prodigy.
 
Sounds good. Budget isn't a big deal; is there a better case out there? Don't care about bling, just functionality.

No need for lots of drive bays or external drives. At most he'd probably add a single 3.5" drive.
 
node 304 is then by far the best choice..

1. horizontal motherboard layout. meaning your board lays out flat. CPU Heatsink and Gpu is not torqued by weight.
2. Very Roomy. Can fit almost any full sized tower heat sink. Has 2 80mm fans up front and 1 120mm fan rear.
3. Can handle a 120x1 AIO if you want, however since it can natively handle a full size tower heat sink whats the point in an AIO.
4. Support for a full sized gpu. Have a 1080ti? no problem... it will fit.

Fractal also has great build quality, many people including I will vouch for them.
 
I could see an argument for AIO based on less mobo stress than a giant HSF, but meh.

This won't be OC'd much if at all... I think a good LP HSF is fine.

Speaking of which, is my hsf choice ok?

Node 202 looks a bit cramped for this build, and Anandtech review mentions weak cooling capacity... I'm thinking it's geared toward something like a 1060.

Node 304... what do you like about it? Anand review again was more interested in the potential of no optical bays than in the case itself, and seemed to see it more as a nice quiet fileserver than as a gaming rig with high end cooling. Also, GPU and PSU share linear space so big GPUs require a small PSU. I'd expect the Enthoo to cool quite a bit better at the cost of maybe a hair more noise and no built in fan controller. GPU will probably be making most of the noise anyway.
 
I like the 202 for packaging reasons. If you're not overclocking, it should be sufficient for your build - it might run warm but it should run w/in spec. Rather than the open-air GPU coolers that are preferred for builds in big ATX towers, blower-style coolers are generally recommended for cramped cases like the 202/304.

The 304 has room for full length GPUs as long as the PSU you get isn't longer than a "standard" ATX PSU. Leave out the (probably unnecessary) HD racks and you have plenty of internal volume for tower coolers and/or radiators, although some modding is sometimes needed. There are quite a few build threads on overclockers and examples on pcpartpicker.

Otherwise get an nCase M1, which is basically the 304, but with an emphasis on water cooling instead of hard drives.
 
From a Node 304 owner, the tower cooler support comes with some caveats. I use a CM Hyper TX3 Evo in mine, and even with that rather small cooler I had to swap the fan over to the rear (pulling air through the heatsink) to avoid it interfering with my HDD cables. A 212 Evo would be problematic at best. Oh, and mounting pretty much anything in there with a tower cooler in is a very tight squeeze. I would stick a 120mm AIO on the back for anything high performance (my A8-7600 does fine, but that's a relatively cool chip). Oh, and unless you want those dual 92mm intake fans to run at full speed and be noisy as hell, make some sort of duct to make sure the GPU is pulling in its own air from the cutout in the side panel. Those 92mms really don't provide a lot of airflow (I swapped mine our for Noctuas, but even those are struggling to positively pressurize the case at reasonable volumes with the rear fan running at the controller's slowest setting.

What I would suggest for Fractal's next version of it: integrate an SFX(-L) mount into the PSU mount, and make the front panel swappable: one with 2x92mm fans for those with ATX PSUs (like the current one), and one with a 180mm fan for those with SFX PSUs. There's plenty of space for it.
 
202 - what hsf would you recommend if I went this route? Need LP RAM?

304 - what's the compelling advantage over the Enthoo? Seems like the Enthoo has fewer compromises with heat and capacity in exchange for not having as many anti-noise features... but can resolve that with some good fans.

M1 - Hmm, that's an extra $100ish for water cooling emphasis I'm not gonna use. :/

MILO-08BH - Looks nice, similar to the 202... but SFX power supplies make me a little nervous. Biggest ones I see in the mainstream are 450W, and this is about a 350W build.

Is there a better LP HSF than the one I picked? Like I said, minor OC at most... just grabbed the K because it's a few hundred mhz faster than vanilla 7700 out of the box.
 
etherealfocus said:
202 - what hsf would you recommend if I went this route? Need LP RAM?

304 - what's the compelling advantage over the Enthoo? Seems like the Enthoo has fewer compromises with heat and capacity in exchange for not having as many anti-noise features... but can resolve that with some good fans.

M1 - Hmm, that's an extra $100ish for water cooling emphasis I'm not gonna use. :/

MILO-08BH - Looks nice, similar to the 202... but SFX power supplies make me a little nervous. Biggest ones I see in the mainstream are 450W, and this is about a 350W build.

Is there a better LP HSF than the one I picked? Like I said, minor OC at most... just grabbed the K because it's a few hundred mhz faster than vanilla 7700 out of the box.
Click to expand...
There also SFX-L PSUs that will fit the MILO-08BH which go up to 550W.
 
whm1974 said:
There also SFX-L PSUs that will fit the MILO-08BH which go up to 550W.
Click to expand...
etherealfocus said:
202 - what hsf would you recommend if I went this route? Need LP RAM?

304 - what's the compelling advantage over the Enthoo? Seems like the Enthoo has fewer compromises with heat and capacity in exchange for not having as many anti-noise features... but can resolve that with some good fans.

M1 - Hmm, that's an extra $100ish for water cooling emphasis I'm not gonna use. :/

MILO-08BH - Looks nice, similar to the 202... but SFX power supplies make me a little nervous. Biggest ones I see in the mainstream are 450W, and this is about a 350W build.

Is there a better LP HSF than the one I picked? Like I said, minor OC at most... just grabbed the K because it's a few hundred mhz faster than vanilla 7700 out of the box.
Click to expand...
What rock have you guys been living under? SFX-L PSUs go up to 800W. Corsair has a very good 650W model.

As for the cases, I'd say it's a big mistake to think of the Ncase M1 as some sort of "water cooling 304". Not only is it half the size, it is a radically different design. I would not call the 304 a small case. The M1 is first and foremost a flexible yet tiny case made for high end hardware. The premium you pay is partially for it not being mass produced, and partially for the niche nature of a ultra compact ITX case with full size GPU support.

Besides, the Evolv ITX has far more water cooling focus than the M1 - it has provisions for mounting radiators in the front, rear and top, has dedicated pump brackets available, and so on. It's the case I'm planning on getting down the road to fit my custom loop ITX setup. Still, it's a stylish and roomy case, with good cooling and relatively easy to build in from what I've read. But again, the M1 is less than half the size and fits the same hardware. If I didn't need water cooling for my GPU, I would have gotten an M1.

Tl;dr: the 304 is only really an option if you're planning on fitting more than 3 3.5" drives. The Evolv ITX is good, but not really 'small' (only when compared to ATX cases). The M1 is excellent and tiny, but will due to the size be hotter and most likely noisier than the Evolv.
 
Ahh, that makes more sense... I think I'll probably stick with the Evolv; space isn't at that much of a premium and sounds like the Evolv wins on noise, cooling, and ease of assembly in addition to price.

One reservation though: that solid plastic front panel looks like it probably hinders the crap out of that nice 200mm fan in front. Should I expect to do some dremeling or is it no biggie?
 
etherealfocus said:
Ahh, that makes more sense... I think I'll probably stick with the Evolv; space isn't at that much of a premium and sounds like the Evolv wins on noise, cooling, and ease of assembly in addition to price.

One reservation though: that solid plastic front panel looks like it probably hinders the crap out of that nice 200mm fan in front. Should I expect to do some dremeling or is it no biggie?
Click to expand...
It shouldn't be an issue, although I'd replace it with 2x 140mm fans at low rpm if I were you. Less noise for similar or better airflow. Bigger fans=faster movement at the fan blade edges=more noise at lower rpm.
 
Probably a good idea. Also planning to slap a 140 in back for exhaust. Want this to be a positive pressure build and with a blower style cooler on the GPU (I assume a good idea for such a small case?) the extra push of a couple 140s couldn't hurt. Probably aim for mid-speed rpms since he's gonna stick this thing in his desk.
 
With dual 140mms of reasonable quality pushing in air from the front and one at the back pulling air out, I wouldn't worry much about even an open-air 1080Ti. Hot air should be replaced by cooler air before it has time to drastically affect other components. Of course, a blower is even safer. Or one of those hybrid GPUs, if it fits in the budget, with the radiator set as an exhaust. GPUs do love water cooling, after all. Of course, a rear-mounted radiator will more than likely interfere with any tower style CPU cooler. There's always a tradeoff 😛
 
Hadn't thought about GPU water cooling... is there a solid, measurable benefit given that no big effort will be put into any sort of OC for either GPU or CPU; better sustained boost clocks etc?
 
etherealfocus said:
Hadn't thought about GPU water cooling... is there a solid, measurable benefit given that no big effort will be put into any sort of OC for either GPU or CPU; better sustained boost clocks etc?
Click to expand...
For GTX 10-series card (without huge honking triple-fan coolers), yes. Absolutely. GPU boost 3.0 will pretty much OC the card from the start, and water cooling will help. Not to mention that (depending on the AIO and card in question) you'll see anywhere from 10-30+ degrees lower load temps. In general, as even an RX 470 or GTX 1060 is far more power hungry than the average CPU while being stuck in a much more cramped space, GPUs benefit far more from water cooling than CPUs do.
 
Good to know! I'm not very familiar with water cooling... do you have a specific card and/or cooler you'd recommend (preferably one that fits the Evolv)?

I imagine with GPU heat efficiently removed and 3x140mm fans for circulation the CPU shouldn't need h20 to stay near max turbo? Or at that point is the $40ish for a good LP HSF better spent on getting an h2o AIO that covers both CPU and GPU?
 
Also how safe are they? This guy's a friend and a I certainly don't want to give him something with a significant risk of leaking and toasting $2000 worth of parts.
 
  1. In the Evolv ITX there is no reason to use a low profile CPU heatsink. It has plenty of clearance for the cooler.
  2. For doing non-custom water cooling on a GPU, there are two options: get a 'hybrid' card that has it included, or get an AIO + a bracket for a standard FE card. The first is easiest, but typically slightly more expensive, and you'll only get a 120mm radiator. With the second you can choose whatever radiator you want, but it's more of a hassle.
  3. There's unfortunately no practical way to hook up both CPU and GPU to a single AIO - you'll need one for each. EKWB's Predator line of AIOs were expandable (and you could order pre-filled GPU waterblocks with the requisite hoses and connectors to plug straight in, but they seem to have been discontinued. Too bad (although they were far more expensive than the average AIO).
What i would do: get a Founders Edition, an AIO mounting bracket (I believe NZXT has the best one), and a 240mm AIO that's compatible with the bracket. Mount the AIO in the top of the case, as an exhaust. Put two 140s in the front as intakes. You don't need a rear fan with this setup. For the CPU, get the biggest air cooler you can fit with the AIO in there. Be thorough in your research here, as this depends on motherboard socket placement and a lot of other variables. You'll probably be able to fit a Hyper 212 Evo or similar. But that's just my guesstimate.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top