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Higgs probably found, at last!

OverVolt said:
It is a super waste of money sadly 🙁
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It's ok, we can print out more. Just gotta remember how to bring up the console in this thing...ahh...there we go..yep, ok...now here, and ummm, paper jam, shit....ah, got it!

What's that cheat code again?
 
It's exciting to be sure; but, as a physicist, I won't be convinced until we have a 5-sigma level of confidence, at the very least. It may take up to ten years to gather and analyze that many collisions. I hope it happens sooner, though, so that Peter Higgs is still alive to receive the Nobel.
 
SsupernovaE said:
It's exciting to be sure; but, as a physicist, I won't be convinced until we have a 5-sigma level of confidence, at the very least. It may take up to ten years to gather and analyze that many collisions. I hope it happens sooner, though, so that Peter Higgs is still alive to receive the Nobel.
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I'd be ok with 3 sigma, maybe even 3 and a half.
 
OverVolt said:
It is a super waste of money sadly 🙁
Click to expand...

I've always wondered what the value of knowing this info is. Basically it helps us understand why particles have mass. But overall, compared to the money spent finding it, what is the value of this information? Can we use this info?

I'm not trying to be skeptical, I'm just ignorant to the purpose of all of this. I assume there is some bigger reason to why all of this money is being spent.
 
Wyndru said:
I've always wondered what the value of knowing this info is. Basically it helps us understand why particles have mass. But overall, compared to the money spent finding it, what is the value of this information? Can we use this info?

I'm not trying to be skeptical, I'm just ignorant to the purpose of all of this. I assume there is some bigger reason to why all of this money is being spent.
Click to expand...

In the short run there aren't too many practical benefits, but it's hard to believe that in the long run there won't be lots of uses for knowing what the basic building blocks of matter are. Electronics, material science, etc.
 
Wyndru said:
I've always wondered what the value of knowing this info is. Basically it helps us understand why particles have mass. But overall, compared to the money spent finding it, what is the value of this information? Can we use this info?

I'm not trying to be skeptical, I'm just ignorant to the purpose of all of this. I assume there is some bigger reason to why all of this money is being spent.
Click to expand...

There's nothing directly practical involved with experimental particle physics but knowing all of the "facts" can lead to better discoveries down the line. For example, finding out that atoms have a nucleus was just a random factoid at the time of discovery but eventually it led to all of the nuclear/radiation technology (fission, weapons, NMR) that we have today that no one could have predicted at the time.

Newton's theory of gravity was just something cute at the time, too. Figuring out quantum theory and the associated quantum tunneling eventually led to the transistor, etc.

Also, all of the machines and technological advances behind the particle accelerators and sensors can be reused/recycled into other more practical applications. Things like the superconductors, cryogenics, high speed computing, lasers, imaging technologies.

To throw out completely random speculation, a complete knowledge of particle physics may eventually lead to workable fusion power some time down the line. If we find some new particles that interact in interesting ways with current particles, that could lead to wildly crazy things but obviously that's low probability.

So, if you're looking for direct practical applications, nothing there but it may lead to something along the path to something more practical later on.
 
Wyndru said:
I've always wondered what the value of knowing this info is. Basically it helps us understand why particles have mass. But overall, compared to the money spent finding it, what is the value of this information? Can we use this info?

I'm not trying to be skeptical, I'm just ignorant to the purpose of all of this. I assume there is some bigger reason to why all of this money is being spent.
Click to expand...

How about the simple fact that we are humans, and we have a quest for knowledge and understanding of our universe and the origins and makeup of life? Why does everything have to be about money and return on investment? Why don't you broaden your mind just a little bit?

It's not even like this is money spent on some endowment for a guy in his shed to figure out why bees like honey or something stupid like that. It's about the fundamental makeup of our existence. Isn't that worth anything to you?
 
Wyndru said:
I've always wondered what the value of knowing this info is. Basically it helps us understand why particles have mass. But overall, compared to the money spent finding it, what is the value of this information? Can we use this info?

I'm not trying to be skeptical, I'm just ignorant to the purpose of all of this. I assume there is some bigger reason to why all of this money is being spent.
Click to expand...

If we left things up to people that thought that way, the most advanced tools we'd have now would be hammers and shovels.
 
Triumph said:
How about the simple fact that we are humans, and we have a quest for knowledge and understanding of our universe and the origins and makeup of life? Why does everything have to be about money and return on investment? Why don't you broaden your mind just a little bit?

It's not even like this is money spent on some endowment for a guy in his shed to figure out why bees like honey or something stupid like that. It's about the fundamental makeup of our existence. Isn't that worth anything to you?
Click to expand...

I only question the value because IMO in this day and age we need funds to go toward useful and critical uses. We have a serious financial crisis around the globe and the substantial amount of money that went into this may (or may not) be better used in other research. Either way the question needs to be asked. There are a lot of programs have been shut down over the past few years due to lack of grants/funds and some would argue that they are a lot more important in the short term than knowing about particle mass and the age old question of "why are we here".

That being said, the 2 posters above you answered my question more thoroughly (rather than just asking me to broaden my views). I just wasn't sure of the actual use of this knowledge, and I tend to think more short term. If the info gathered leads to significant technological advancement, then I'm sure it will pay off.
 
Wyndru said:
I only question the value because IMO in this day and age we need funds to go toward useful and critical uses. We have a serious financial crisis around the globe and the substantial amount of money that went into this may (or may not) be better used in other research. Either way the question needs to be asked. There are a lot of programs have been shut down over the past few years due to lack of grants/funds and some would argue that they are a lot more important in the short term than knowing about particle mass and the age old question of "why are we here".

That being said, the 2 posters above you answered my question more thoroughly (rather than just asking me to broaden my views). I just wasn't sure of the actual use of this knowledge, and I tend to think more short term. If the info gathered leads to significant technological advancement, then I'm sure it will pay off.
Click to expand...

Thinking in the short term is almost exclusively why we're in the mess we're in now.
 
OverVolt said:
It is a super waste of money sadly 🙁
Click to expand...

Spoken like a fool.

Wyndru said:
I've always wondered what the value of knowing this info is. Basically it helps us understand why particles have mass. But overall, compared to the money spent finding it, what is the value of this information? Can we use this info?

I'm not trying to be skeptical, I'm just ignorant to the purpose of all of this. I assume there is some bigger reason to why all of this money is being spent.
Click to expand...

Imagine it's 1897. Some fools are playing around with cathode tubes. "Why are you idiot scientists playing around with that stuff? Discovering the electron? Big friggin deal. An atom is so small it couldn't possibly do anything useful. An electron is even smaller. We need to stop wasting money on you idiot scientists doing nothing but science for the sake of learning. Can't you do something with immediate applications?"

Thanks God there weren't an excess of people with that mentality back then. Imagine what the world is like without any electronics. Without televisions. Without anything related to our knowledge of electrons, which as of 1896 hadn't even been discovered. Fast forward a few decades. Discovery of the neutron. Einstein already knew E=mc²; for a decade or so. But, that was absolutely useless knowledge. There's no way you can harness that energy. Along comes the neutron discovery & nuclear physics really takes off.
 
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