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Hiding my WPA security key in Windows 7

MrEgo

Senior member
So there doesn't appear to be any simple way to go about hiding this key, even through group policy. I realize that you have to be an administrator of the PC to get to the security tab, but we have MANY users with local admin rights on their laptops in our AD environment.

I came across this thread, but it doesn't seem like the MVP or a couple of other posters have a clue as to why this is such a big problem:

http://social.answers.microsoft.com...k/thread/173e68af-a875-4617-87b5-4899486b5dac

I know there are other ways to get the key if you have it stored on your local machine, but the average person isn't going to know how to do it in other versions of Windows. Now, it's just a matter of clicking a check box and there it is.

Microsoft.. what the hell? Tell me there's an easy solution..
 
The corporate solution is usually a RADIUS (or similar) server, maybe combined with SMART card or other two-factor authentication.
 
That's cool.. but did you read my post?
Of course. Why do the minions and masses need to know the code? They should call you for that - it helps secure your position. 🙂

It can also be placed on flash media for those that are trusted.
 
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Of course. Why do the minions and masses need to know the code? They should call you for that - it helps secure your position. 🙂

It can also be placed on flash media for those that are trusted.

He is referring to, I believe, that keys can be viewed uncrypted by local admins.
 
It may not be possible to totally conceal a locally-stored wireless key from a local administrator. If you're concerned about your authorized users deriving their key and sharing it with unauthorized users, one solution might be to whitelist MAC addresses on the wireless router. That way, even a user with a valid key would not be able to connect to the network unless they are doing so from a whitelisted MAC address. This isn't a surefire method, as its technically possible to spoof (fake) a MAC address, but in your case two methods of authentication are probably better than one.

As already mentioned above, the *ideal* way of doing this would be to use two-factor authentication (RADIUS, smartcard, authenticator tokens... etc).

Good luck!
 
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He is referring to, I believe, that keys can be viewed uncrypted by local admins.

Yes, I DON'T want the users to know the code. In Windows 7, local admins can simply check the box that says "Show Characters" and there it is, in plain text. (wtf MS?)

I work in a school district, and we have an environment of about 2,200 machines, and I would guess that 1,500 of them are laptops that need a wireless connection. Not all of the 1,500 will have local admin rights at any given time, but a significant amount do.

We have a small portion of Macs in the environment (gee, thanks school board =/ ), so we can't use PEAP for those. I'm not too familiar with RADIUS, but is IAS an example of a RADIUS server?
 
I'm not too familiar with RADIUS, but is IAS an example of a RADIUS server?
Yes. IAS is the RADIUS server included with all copies of Windows Server. The router checks in with the RADIUS server to see who/what is authorized to connect and under what conditions. But I think it normally uses PEAP. See below for a Mac link.

TechRepublic's "Ultimate security guid for Microsoft IAS RADIUS for wireless authentication:

http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-6148579.html

How to configure IAS for Macintosh OSX 10.5, Windows 7, and Windows XP:

http://araihan.wordpress.com/2009/0...macbook-pro-osx-10-5-and-xp-pro-step-by-step/
 
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I work in a school district, and we have an environment of about 2,200 machines, and I would guess that 1,500 of them are laptops that need a wireless connection. Not all of the 1,500 will have local admin rights at any given time, but a significant amount do.

While I understand your dilemma, I can see where the MS MVPs are coming from with their confusion over your request. It's hard to imagine a scenario where a trusted user (especially one with local admin access) would be authorized to use a wireless network, but not authorized to view the key used to access that network. That's not to say there isn't a scenario where that would be required, it's just that one doesn't readily encounter that situation. 🙂

An additional alternative to MAC address whitelisting, and two-factor authentication, would be to use a captive proxy scheme to capture all users that connect to your wireless network. This type of solution is typically used with public "hotspots" that need to be accessible to many authorized users, but not the general public. Some examples are hotels and restaurants. This scheme would require a specialized router, or a router loaded with customized firmware. Other users here might have a few solutions they can suggest for this.

Basically, a captive proxy scheme works by forcing all unique users on the network to authenticate on an embedded router webpage before they are permitted to send any traffic over the LAN attached to the router. Each of your users can be assigned single-use, time-restricted, or unlimited access to the LAN. More sophisticated systems are able to generate unique credentials triggered by events such as a purchase or credit card charge, and pass those credentials to an external application to be printed out on a ticket or purchase receipt. This method would allow you the option to leave your wireless network open (or) password protected, while still ensuring that all users attempting to use the network would be redirected to the router's embedded authentication page before being allowed access to the LAN connected to the router.

Also note - the most secure solution would still be two-factor authentication. There are methods for a tech savvy person to circumvent all the other schemes, including MAC address whitelisting and captive proxy systems.

More info at these links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_portal

Good luck!
 
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but we have MANY users with local admin rights on their laptops in our AD environment

Users seeing the WPA key is probably the least of your worries. You can't restrict a user with admin rights from doing anything.
 
It's hard to imagine a scenario where a trusted user (especially one with local admin access) would be authorized to use a wireless network, but not authorized to view the key used to access that network.
Well, right now, if one person loses their laptop (happens all the time), or if one student gets 30 seconds on an unattended laptop, then everybody will know the "secure" key and can connect to the network at will.
 
Well, right now, if one person loses their laptop (happens all the time), or if one student gets 30 seconds on an unattended laptop, then everybody will know the "secure" key and can connect to the network at will.

Right, but I think the point of view of the MS MVPs is that system-loss or unauthorized-user scenarios are both issues that can be solved with built-in Windows security, a trusted-platform scheme, or by simply promoting good computing practices (locking the computer when you step away from it, rotating your passwords periodically, etc...), and don't necessarily indicate some kind of Windows security flaw or design oversight in the OS.

Their assumption is that any person using a computer connected to your LAN is authorized to do so, and that there already exist a variety of methods to prevent unauthorized users from gaining access to any system. From Bitlocker and Truecrypt, to simple Windows passwords, there already exist ways to keep people out of Windows, and the network that the OS is authorized to connect to.

The problem is twofold. First, a Windows client machine isn't the ideal place to build a defensive layer against intrusion to your LAN; second, WPA isn't really designed to make a distinction between valid keys possessed by authorized and unauthorized users. From the OS point of view, any user that is behind the keyboard and has made it past Windows user authentication, Bitlocker, etc. is assumed to be an authorized user. From the router point of view, any user that possesses a valid key is assumed to be an authorized user.

To me, the problem is similar to the issue of protecting a video stream from movie pirates. You can encrypt the movie data to make it useless to thieves, but at some point you will need to decrypt it and display it on the screen. The point where that occurs is a weak spot, and it's usually the first place a thief will look to intercept an unencrypted data stream. Hackers have discovered a million ways to decode movies, thwarting every scheme the movie industry has created to prevent that from happening. Even making the keys unique for every single movie, and strongly protecting them inside multiple layers of OS abstraction and hardware protection, hasn't succeeded from preventing those movies from being decrypted. All it takes is a single weakly-protected piece of hardware, and once people know the key - its game over. The problem here is similar to yours - the problem isn't so much that the layers of protection of the wireless key that are weak, its the fact that only a single key is being used to protect the data. Like Hollywood which relies on a single commonly-shared key to decode movie titles encrypted on discs, you are relying on a single commonly-shared key to protect access to your school's LAN. You can obfuscate and encrypt this key to oblivion, but at some point the OS needs to derive it and use it to access the network.

To the best of my knowledge, the only thing that has reliably worked, are systems designed using two-factor authentication. When NOWHERE on the local device exists the full solution to the encrypted data, a second factor is needed to decrypt. This can be an authenticator key, a smart-card, or some hash residing on a remote server somewhere on the net. Without that second factor, even if the local key is discovered by the user - the encrypted data or the protected network, is useless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-factor_authentication

In my opinion, it is not possible to solve your problem by changing they way keys are stored in Windows. You can obfuscate the keys, but because Windows will eventually need to decrypt that key and connect to the network, there will always exist a way to bypass that protection and obtain the protected key. If your wireless router is designed to connect to an open LAN protected only by the single wireless key - its game over.
 
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I realize that in a perfect, utopian IT environment, all of your users would be standard users, and nobody would be admins of the local PC. Unfortunately, in the real world, that's not always the case.

I just think it's ridiculous that MS would allow the key to be shown like that without any kind of managable feature (group policy, etc) to block it out.

If you had a wireless network at your house, and your buddy wanted to connect to it with his laptop, would you want him to be able to see your key so easily? Sure, if he's tech savvy, he'd be able to get it another way, but the average user is not going to know how to do that. Now any computer illiterate user just click the box and see your key.

There's a reason they put seatbelts on cars. If everyone drove the way they were supposed to, there would be no accidents.

Anyway, it sounds like we need to invest more time into a RADIUS server. WPA2 personal doesn't seem like the way to go for an environment of this size.
 
Anyway, it sounds like we need to invest more time into a RADIUS server. WPA2 personal doesn't seem like the way to go for an environment of this size.

+1

I am sure that at the time of transition from Horses and Carriages to Cars (early 20th century), there were a lot of complaints that Cars do not do certain things that you can do with Horses.

.
 
I realize that in a perfect, utopian IT environment, all of your users would be standard users, and nobody would be admins of the local PC. Unfortunately, in the real world, that's not always the case.

I just think it's ridiculous that MS would allow the key to be shown like that without any kind of managable feature (group policy, etc) to block it out.

If you had a wireless network at your house, and your buddy wanted to connect to it with his laptop, would you want him to be able to see your key so easily? Sure, if he's tech savvy, he'd be able to get it another way, but the average user is not going to know how to do that. Now any computer illiterate user just click the box and see your key.

There's a reason they put seatbelts on cars. If everyone drove the way they were supposed to, there would be no accidents.

Anyway, it sounds like we need to invest more time into a RADIUS server. WPA2 personal doesn't seem like the way to go for an environment of this size.

Windows needs to use the unencrypted key to connect so I am not sure why this surprises you. I am pretty sure it is in plain text in the registry also. Captive portals tend to be the best way to or something like 802.1x certificates on the PC itself in order to authorize the hardware to the wireless system.
 
Not all of the 1,500 will have local admin rights at any given time, but a significant amount do.

Why? Why do you need to give so many users local admin rights? There are tons of other security issues when you give random users admin rights, figuring out your wireless keys is just one small part of a much bigger issue.
 
Why? Why do you need to give so many users local admin rights? There are tons of other security issues when you give random users admin rights, figuring out your wireless keys is just one small part of a much bigger issue.

It's not my call. First, I'm not the network administator. Second, the superintendent of the school district ordered the former IT director to give the teachers administrative privileges. I wasn't working here when the last IT director was here, but I can only imagine that he wasn't very strict.

If it was my call, then nobody other than the IT staff would have admin access to any machine. We do have a different IT director now, and he is starting to change the culture around here. I don't imagine that the teachers are going to have administrative access to their local machines for much longer, because they just don't need it. All of the machines are standardized now, and the teachers no longer have the right to bring in educational software from home and install it on their PCs to show to the class.

But anyway, that is out of my control, and beside my point that I think MS dropped the ball by allowing Windows 7 users to see the security key so easily. I know you can find it in the registry or by exporting your wireless settings to a USB drive, but I've already said that the average user does NOT know how to do this.

If some of you think it's a good idea to be able to do this so easily, then I guess we just have philosophical differences and that's that.
 
It's not my call. First, I'm not the network administator. Second, the superintendent of the school district ordered the former IT director to give the teachers administrative privileges. I wasn't working here when the last IT director was here, but I can only imagine that he wasn't very strict.

If it was my call, then nobody other than the IT staff would have admin access to any machine. We do have a different IT director now, and he is starting to change the culture around here. I don't imagine that the teachers are going to have administrative access to their local machines for much longer, because they just don't need it. All of the machines are standardized now, and the teachers no longer have the right to bring in educational software from home and install it on their PCs to show to the class.

But anyway, that is out of my control, and beside my point that I think MS dropped the ball by allowing Windows 7 users to see the security key so easily. I know you can find it in the registry or by exporting your wireless settings to a USB drive, but I've already said that the average user does NOT know how to do this.

If some of you think it's a good idea to be able to do this so easily, then I guess we just have philosophical differences and that's that.

I know you think you should be able to limit admin accounts, but you are not understanding the windows security model. Administrators of a machine have complete control and no one is allowed to prevent them from doing things. To horribly mis-quote Raymond Chen, this is not a security flaw, because they are already on the other side of the air-tight hatch. Once the person is an administrator, they have access to everything by design. Those last three words are important, when you give someone admin level on a machine, you give them complete and total control of the machine. There is no way for a person to have complete and total control and be restricted at the same time.
 
I know you think you should be able to limit admin accounts, but you are not understanding the windows security model. Administrators of a machine have complete control and no one is allowed to prevent them from doing things. To horribly mis-quote Raymond Chen, this is not a security flaw, because they are already on the other side of the air-tight hatch. Once the person is an administrator, they have access to everything by design. Those last three words are important, when you give someone admin level on a machine, you give them complete and total control of the machine. There is no way for a person to have complete and total control and be restricted at the same time.

That's not entirely true, because many group policies will restrict anyone (local admins included) from changing the respective settings, or at least make it reasonably difficult to change those settings.
 
If you're just trying to keep people from putting unauthorized devices on the wireless network there are several ways to get that done without worrying about hiding your WPA key. The easiest would be have you DHCP server only assign IP's to ceritan MAC's. We have a certificate setup at work, the only way to get on our network is to have the certificate, and know how to set it up on another machine. between these two security measures I feel confidant that nobody is going to bring in an unauthroized device and get it on the network. While I know users are able to export certificates, there are way too many unless they copy them all then there would still be the MAC issue, granted nobody knows exactly what we do, or how we do it. All they know and all they need to know is if there is a device they want to put on the wireless network they have to come talk to us about it. You could also implement a RADIUS server and only allow each login to be used once. This way you can tell who is on, when they're on and the MAC/IP of the machine they're on.
 
I guess symantecs can be debated over and over. The bottom line is that it's there, there is no simple fix, and we're SOL until we get IAS up and running 😀

I suppose that change is for the better, though.
 
That's not entirely true, because many group policies will restrict anyone (local admins included) from changing the respective settings, or at least make it reasonably difficult to change those settings.

Yes, they are restricted, but the local admin can remove the machine from the domain and then change them. As a part of a domain, the local admin can be restricted as long as the computer is part of the domain. It is sort of like file access. The local admin can be restricted through NTFS, but he can rip those NTFS permissions out at any time.
 
I guess symantecs can be debated over and over. The bottom line is that it's there, there is no simple fix, and we're SOL until we get IAS up and running 😀

I suppose that change is for the better, though.

Tell you what. I can't believe that there has been so much push back, hand wringing and consternation on what was a reasonable question on the OP's part.

Yes, we all know that, if MS could design a reliable and non-archane system for security, the best possible solution would be to lock down local admin rights for all of the machines in an organization. Unfortunately, Windows security solutions overall continue to be a mish-mash, patchwork joke, and the "right" solution is not always practical in a large organization where IT staff is already stretched thin trying to support existing systems while rolling out new projects. Spending the days and months necessary to enable your users to work effectively, especially mobile users, while locking down them out from being local admins is not an easy task. Especially when your users are high demand, high producers, and less than patient with things that don't work.

The original question was a good one, and bears repeating: WTF, Microsoft? You allow a system admin to keep me from lengthening the time to sleep my hard drive with GPO, but you won't allow him to mask the WPA key? It's utterly ridiculous.

I support 1500 users myself. And while I am not worried that much about malicious behavior on their parts, I do know that some of them will shortly figure out the way to expose the key, and 99.9999 percent of them would likely never look for it in the registry. They might think it's "harmless" to put the key on their android device, or some other insecure smart phone. Or perhaps share it with their client, who is having trouble connecting to our guest network, or doesn't want to be bothered by the time limit on it. Yes, masking the key is not a total security lockdown, but neither is giving people laptops with wireless cards. I can sleep at night knowing that someone would have to dig into the registry to find the key.

MAC address whitelisting is a pain, because any large enterprise is constantly swapping hardware out under warranty (change a MOBO in a laptop and you have a new MAC address). Besides, that can likely be spoofed by anyone with the chops to find the WPA key in the registry.

And yes, while a radius server would be a more secure, and less user friendly way of locking down the wireless network, it is totally bogus that MS left this low hanging fruit out there, when putting it in GPO would have been about a 10 minute programming fix. BIG miss.

Mr Ego, you were right on for defending your original question. The horse and car analogy is ridiculous.
 
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Wow this is an old thread... I thought as a whole the forum did a great job of trying to suggest alternate solutions to the OP's problem. Bottom line, no there isn't an easy fix. It seems this would be something best handled as part of the network infrastructure rather than relying on the client PC to restrict unauthorized access... At any rate, I think you'll find Microsoft's forums littered with good questions like this one, and they are much, much more dismissive than people here on AT are... 🙂
 
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