Hey SuperTool - care to answer a question re your new sig line?

[Mursilis]

So I noticed your new sig line about fiscal conservatives not being represented by any major party, and I got to thinking that's only half right. While the Republican party is spending like drunk college kids, they've held the line on taxes (heck, we even got tax cuts!). So I wouldn't say fiscal conservatives are out in the cold completely. Now of course we all know the gov't budget is also in deficit, because you can't have both low taxes and high spending, so obviously there's a fiscal reckoning coming. All that being true, what makes you think taxes will rise to meet expenditures (that is, fiscal liberals win) instead of expenditures falling to meet current revenue levels (that is, fiscal conservatives win)?
An honest look at recent political history indicates that when voters are offered tax increases via referendum, they soundly reject them (see Alabama, Oregon, and a proposed regional tax increase in Northern Virginia), and when politicians support tax increases, they quickly become ex-politicians (see the Democrats' historic Congressional losses in '94 following thier support of Clinton's 1992-93 tax increases). Of course spending cuts aren't popular either (which is why Gingrich backed off nearly all of his, and the current Republican Congress has brought us almost none), but looking at the recent state-level budget battles, haven't legislatures generally done more budget cutting vs. tax raising?
As a fiscal conservative, I don't think the battle's over at all. I'd say it's barely begun.

Edit: Please don't take this post as 'picking' on you personally; I'm just curious as to why some people think that when push comes to shove fiscally, it'll lead to tax increases vs. spending cuts.

 

[SuperTool]

Deficits are just deffered taxes.
Or do you not consider purchasing on credit "spending?"
If so, can I use your credit card for a couple days?

 

[SuperTool]

Oh, and the battle is over, because a fiscal conservative party in a true sense is unelectable in this country.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Oh, and the battle is over, because a fiscal conservative party in a true sense is unelectable in this country.

In the present political climate, I would have to agree with you.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Deficits are just deffered taxes.
Or do you not consider purchasing on credit "spending?"
If so, can I use your credit card for a couple days?

Well of course purchasing on credit is still spending, but deficits could just as easily be resolved by spending reductions/freezes, allowing revenues to 'catch up' through economic growth. It isn't axiomatic that tax rates have to be increased to solve deficits.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Oh, and the battle is over, because a fiscal conservative party in a true sense is unelectable in this country.

In the present political climate, I would have to agree with you.

Alot of folks need to be taken off the goverment tiet for that climate to change. Reform needs to happen in DC, I doubt it will be fast if it does happen.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Deficits are just deffered taxes.
Or do you not consider purchasing on credit "spending?"
If so, can I use your credit card for a couple days?

Well of course purchasing on credit is still spending, but deficits could just as easily be resolved by spending reductions/freezes, allowing revenues to 'catch up' through economic growth. It isn't axiomatic that tax rates have to be increased to solve deficits.

:music: I tell you how it is and you tell me how it might be :music:

OK, fine, I give up. which party is resolving the deficits by "spending reductions/freezes, allowing revenues to 'catch up' through economic growth?"

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Oh, and the battle is over, because a fiscal conservative party in a true sense is unelectable in this country.

That is true now, but things may be much different now. Most young people are getting disillusioned with 'Big Gov't' - for example, most 'Gen X'ers' don't believe Social Security will be there for them when they reach retirement age. I don't expect Baby Boomers to support fiscally conservatism - why end the spending spree now when we can continue to shaft future generations? - but Gen X is eventually going to figure out that getting stuck holding the bag for a couple trillion dollars with little to show for it is for suckers.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Deficits are just deffered taxes.
Or do you not consider purchasing on credit "spending?"
If so, can I use your credit card for a couple days?

Well of course purchasing on credit is still spending, but deficits could just as easily be resolved by spending reductions/freezes, allowing revenues to 'catch up' through economic growth. It isn't axiomatic that tax rates have to be increased to solve deficits.

:music: I tell you how it is and you tell me how it might be :music:

OK, fine, I give up. which party is resolving the deficits by "spending reductions/freezes, allowing revenues to 'catch up' through economic growth?"

None of 'em. You don't regret going to the party until the hang-over hits and the bill collector comes knocking. It's not the 'morning after' yet.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Oh, and the battle is over, because a fiscal conservative party in a true sense is unelectable in this country.

That is true now, but things may be much different now. Most young people are getting disillusioned with 'Big Gov't' - for example, most 'Gen X'ers' don't believe Social Security will be there for them when they reach retirement age. I don't expect Baby Boomers to support fiscally conservatism - why end the spending spree now when we can continue to shaft future generations? - but Gen X is eventually going to figure out that getting stuck holding the bag for a couple trillion dollars with little to show for it is for suckers.

This country will go bankrupt. That is all.
Don't know how bad that will be, but it will happen.
Either that or inflation that will wipe out both debts and savings.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Oh, and the battle is over, because a fiscal conservative party in a true sense is unelectable in this country.

That is true now, but things may be much different now. Most young people are getting disillusioned with 'Big Gov't' - for example, most 'Gen X'ers' don't believe Social Security will be there for them when they reach retirement age. I don't expect Baby Boomers to support fiscally conservatism - why end the spending spree now when we can continue to shaft future generations? - but Gen X is eventually going to figure out that getting stuck holding the bag for a couple trillion dollars with little to show for it is for suckers.

This country will go bankrupt. That is all.
Don't know how bad that will be, but it will happen.
Either that or inflation that will wipe out both debts and savings.

I think that is an overstatement. For one the Government can't go bankrupt. It can always just keep printing money. But we could see some serious thrashing in the financial markets. I suspect we will start to see the politicians get serious within the next 2 elections. This one will be a non-issue to the parties, but by 2008 the boomers start retiring and things could get ugly.

On the upside, when boomers start retiring, I predict wages at record highs, and unemployment at record lows. Just not enough bodies to fill all the positions. Of course, our tax rate will be 60%, but we'll have a job and make lots of money!

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Deficits are just deffered taxes.
Or do you not consider purchasing on credit "spending?"
If so, can I use your credit card for a couple days?

Well of course purchasing on credit is still spending, but deficits could just as easily be resolved by spending reductions/freezes, allowing revenues to 'catch up' through economic growth. It isn't axiomatic that tax rates have to be increased to solve deficits.

Then you'll simply be spending the same, but getting less. Deficits are taxes, no matter how you look at it.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
This country will go bankrupt. That is all.
Don't know how bad that will be, but it will happen.
Either that or inflation that will wipe out both debts and savings.

It's sad that we agree on this, a disastrous outcome.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Oh, and the battle is over, because a fiscal conservative party in a true sense is unelectable in this country.

That is true now, but things may be much different now. Most young people are getting disillusioned with 'Big Gov't' - for example, most 'Gen X'ers' don't believe Social Security will be there for them when they reach retirement age. I don't expect Baby Boomers to support fiscally conservatism - why end the spending spree now when we can continue to shaft future generations? - but Gen X is eventually going to figure out that getting stuck holding the bag for a couple trillion dollars with little to show for it is for suckers.

This country will go bankrupt. That is all.
Don't know how bad that will be, but it will happen.
Either that or inflation that will wipe out both debts and savings.

I think that is an overstatement. For one the Government can't go bankrupt. It can always just keep printing money. But we could see some serious thrashing in the financial markets. I suspect we will start to see the politicians get serious within the next 2 elections. This one will be a non-issue to the parties, but by 2008 the boomers start retiring and things could get ugly.

On the upside, when boomers start retiring, I predict wages at record highs, and unemployment at record lows. Just not enough bodies to fill all the positions. Of course, our tax rate will be 60%, but we'll have a job and make lots of money!

You might be right about Bankrupty and Government, but the effect of a Government printing money will nilly could be a whole lot worse than bankruptcy.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: SuperTool
This country will go bankrupt. That is all.
Don't know how bad that will be, but it will happen.
Either that or inflation that will wipe out both debts and savings.

It's sad that we agree on this, a disastrous outcome.

Or the economy can grow and the debt can remain not much of an issues, like it has for the past couple of decades.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Oh, and the battle is over, because a fiscal conservative party in a true sense is unelectable in this country.

That is true now, but things may be much different now. Most young people are getting disillusioned with 'Big Gov't' - for example, most 'Gen X'ers' don't believe Social Security will be there for them when they reach retirement age. I don't expect Baby Boomers to support fiscally conservatism - why end the spending spree now when we can continue to shaft future generations? - but Gen X is eventually going to figure out that getting stuck holding the bag for a couple trillion dollars with little to show for it is for suckers.

This country will go bankrupt. That is all.
Don't know how bad that will be, but it will happen.
Either that or inflation that will wipe out both debts and savings.

I think that is an overstatement. For one the Government can't go bankrupt. It can always just keep printing money. But we could see some serious thrashing in the financial markets. I suspect we will start to see the politicians get serious within the next 2 elections. This one will be a non-issue to the parties, but by 2008 the boomers start retiring and things could get ugly.

On the upside, when boomers start retiring, I predict wages at record highs, and unemployment at record lows. Just not enough bodies to fill all the positions. Of course, our tax rate will be 60%, but we'll have a job and make lots of money!

As more money is printed the value of the dollar goes down. That's where the trouble comes from. The value of the dollar is the only thing keeping the gov't afloat.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Oh, and the battle is over, because a fiscal conservative party in a true sense is unelectable in this country.

In the present political climate, I would have to agree with you.

Alot of folks need to be taken off the goverment tiet for that climate to change. Reform needs to happen in DC, I doubt it will be fast if it does happen.

The only way "reform" will happen in DC is a "Revolution" but as Jack would say you guys are too wussy to hear the truth.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: SuperTool
This country will go bankrupt. That is all.
Don't know how bad that will be, but it will happen.
Either that or inflation that will wipe out both debts and savings.

It's sad that we agree on this, a disastrous outcome.

The deficit and spending out of control may be the biggest problem that this country's future faces. While the gov. can keep printing money to avoid the "technical bankruptsy", the value of that dollar will go so low (inflation) and interest rates so high, that it will be esentially worthless anyway. Maybe we should all just spend like the govenment does....run up the credit card bills.....generate billions (trillions?) of new Tax revenue...then all file bankruptsy. Citibank goes out of business, but the Govenment flourishes?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Oh, and the battle is over, because a fiscal conservative party in a true sense is unelectable in this country.

That is true now, but things may be much different now. Most young people are getting disillusioned with 'Big Gov't' - for example, most 'Gen X'ers' don't believe Social Security will be there for them when they reach retirement age. I don't expect Baby Boomers to support fiscally conservatism - why end the spending spree now when we can continue to shaft future generations? - but Gen X is eventually going to figure out that getting stuck holding the bag for a couple trillion dollars with little to show for it is for suckers.

This country will go bankrupt. That is all.
Don't know how bad that will be, but it will happen.
Either that or inflation that will wipe out both debts and savings.

I think that is an overstatement. For one the Government can't go bankrupt. It can always just keep printing money. But we could see some serious thrashing in the financial markets. I suspect we will start to see the politicians get serious within the next 2 elections. This one will be a non-issue to the parties, but by 2008 the boomers start retiring and things could get ugly.

On the upside, when boomers start retiring, I predict wages at record highs, and unemployment at record lows. Just not enough bodies to fill all the positions. Of course, our tax rate will be 60%, but we'll have a job and make lots of money!

Not bad, you're learning. You got one out of three right. The 60% Taxes but the other two you got bass akwards.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: SuperTool
This country will go bankrupt. That is all.
Don't know how bad that will be, but it will happen.
Either that or inflation that will wipe out both debts and savings.

It's sad that we agree on this, a disastrous outcome.

The deficit and spending out of control may be the biggest problem that this country's future faces. While the gov. can keep printing money to avoid the "technical bankruptsy", the value of that dollar will go so low (inflation) and interest rates so high, that it will be esentially worthless anyway. Maybe we should all just spend like the govenment does....run up the credit card bills.....generate billions (trillions?) of new Tax revenue...then all file bankruptsy. Citibank goes out of business, but the Govenment flourishes?

Actually that is happening too. Personal Debt keeps setting new highs. The US is living off the Charity of Investors, if they change their minds the sh1t will hit the fan.

 

[ReiAyanami]

republicans spend too much on military ($200 billion MISSile shield that won't work)
democrats spend too much on healthcare and socialist security and such

hence there is no fiscally conservative party


NEGATIVE SEVEN TRILLION
LEAVE NO BILLIONAIRE BEHIND

 

[ReiAyanami]

despite the war on terrorism, there is no justification of a $400billion/year military. the whole reason we were even spending more than $250billion/year was the cold war, and that's over. we need to slim down and shape up. JSF this and JSF that, if we're gonna be spending $400 billion/year then we better be invading a whole lot more countries.

for $87 billion we could have taken a dozen poor nations in a "friendly merger" instead of a single one via hostile takeover. let the mickey mouse comcast wars begin!!