**HEY! It's done! With PICS!! (see orig post)** What bit/method to countersink a nut in stone? (more)

[MichaelD]

OK guys, it's done. And it will be getting REDONE this weekend.

The actual mounting of branch to stone is flawless, IMHO, but the size of the stone is too small...I screwed up and broke it wrong...

As the stone comes, it's 12x12 and way too heavy to sit on a glass-bottomed tank. So, I tried to break it in two even pieces. What an idiot I am.

I broke it in thirds, basically. I grabbed the biggest piece and used that.

Due to the base (stone) being a little on the small side, the whole thing is a bit tippy when weight is applied to the uppermost branches. Kinda defeats the purpose, you know? But, it's in the tank and she's climbed on it already, w/no ill effects. But, when I do something, it has to be perfect, so I'll be redoing it this weekend. Should take all of 30 minutes, assuming I don't screw it up agian.

*Shut up, Mike and give us pics!!!!!* OK, fine.

Here's the branch, before mounting You can see the bolt in the bottom.
Closeup of the hangar bolt screwed into the branch. I used the nut to get a grip on it
Countersunk hole in bottom, before mounting branch The big hole is 3/4 inch, the small, 1/4 inch slightly "enlarged" by wiggling the bit a little bit.
Pic of the branch mounted. You can see how the nut is countersunk!
The finished product
Here is the BRB sleeping
Here she is on the branch!!! Mission is a success!! (sorta)

*EDITED AGAIN FOR MORE PICS*
OK, maybe it won't topple after all
Tell me she's not beautiful!






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I know the subject is confusing.

Here's what I'm doing; I'm taking a small tree branch, and bolting it to a 12" x 12" piece of paving stone. You know, the kind they sell at Home Depot to make driveways and such. I'm making a climbing branch for one of my snakes. Basically, the end of the branch is sawn-off flat, and I need to bolt it, upright, to the stone.

I plan on using a hangar bolt to do this; it has one end w/screw threads to screw into wood, the other end is threaded for a nut. HANGAR BOLT


Obviously, the nut that will be holding the branch on has to be recessed into the bottom of the stone, otherwise the stone won't sit flat.

So, how do I make the hole big enough for the nut to sit in? Use a second drill bit that makes a hole big enough for the nut?

I hope my description is descriptive enough...thanks.

 

[ttn1]

You can use 2 different drill bits for this. I would probably go to the local home center and search through the tool section. Diamond coated drill bits would be very good for this, but pretty expensive. You might find something with the tool for working ceramic tile.

 

[MichaelD]

Thanks, ttn1. I know they sell a 3 or 4-piece diamond bit set for masonary work. I may take the plunge and make the investment...I forget how much the set goes for, though. Thanks much.

 

[Howard]

You got snakes?

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: Yucky
You got snakes?

Yessir. Three. Columbian Red Tail, Brazilian Rainbow, Royal Python. My little buddies. I am allergic to anything w/fur, which stinks, b/c I like dogs (hate cats). Also, I'm not home very often; reptiles are perfect for me.

 

[Farbio]

yep, ttn1 has it how i'd do it.....just use a bigger drill bit at the end and drill it in however deep u need to countersink the bolt.

 

[911paramedic]

You should glue a piece of plywood that is the same size 12"x12" (5/8 or 1/2" thick) to the bottom of the tile. Then do the coutersink of the head of the bolt into the plywood, not the tile. Drill a hole in the tile a little larger than the width of the bolt itself so it does not try and thread the tile itself. This will give you a much stronger setup.

If you try and coutersink into the tile itself you will crack it, without a doubt. The tile will be so thin at the point where the head is it will not have the strength you need in order to get the branch secure. Remember that you will have to torque that branch down quite a bit in order to hold the branch and a snake.

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
You should glue a piece of plywood that is the same size 12"x12" (5/8 or 1/2" thick) to the bottom of the tile. Then do the coutersink of the head of the bolt into the plywood, not the tile. Drill a hole in the tile a little larger than the width of the bolt itself so it does not try and thread the tile itself. This will give you a much stronger setup.

If you try and coutersink into the tile itself you will crack it, without a doubt. The tile will be so thin at the point where the head is it will not have the strength you need in order to get the branch secure. Remember that you will have to torque that branch down quite a bit in order to hold the branch and a snake.

Thanks much, 911; those are excellent suggestions...I wouldn't have thought to do that. But I'm not going to be using tile; I'm going to be using those premade paving stones...basically, a 12x12 square of concrete, about 1.5 inches thick.

The board on the bottom thing is a good idea, but the whole reason I"m using a stone base is b/c this branch setup will be going into a high-humidity environment, the bottom of the cage is lined with newspaper, which is constantly wet with water. The snake in that cage requires this damp environment in order to survive. If I had a wood base sitting in the water, the wood would bloat and eventually fall apart. Trust me, I've tried it already.

 

[MichaelD]

Oh, one other question; by using the "two bit" method, will the bottom of the countersunk hole be smooth and flat? I can see what it's supposed to look like in my head (that didn't sound right, did it?) I wish I could draw it....it needs to be flat, so the the washer/nut combo can sit flat/get a good grip/etc.

 

[Capn]

You're not going to be able to get a counterbore with standard drill bits.

My suggestion would be to get some feet of some sort, you could use almost anything, that will allow enough depth under the paver for the nut. Then epoxy these to the four corners of the paver.

If you really just want a concrete slab with no space underneath, It wouldn't be hard at all to make your own paver. Just make a box and put the counterbore in the mold itself so you don't have to try to machine that out.

 

[skyking]

there are two more useful and common sizes of concrete: 2x8x16, and 4x8x16. these are cheap, and give a little more meat to drill through.
A piece of tubing will drill a nice hole in concrete, using a cutting abrasive. Try and use a drill press, and be patient. Use the tubing to drill the countersunk area first, then drill the smaller hole through.
I don't think the snake willl break the block by climbing on the branch, but you can break it easily by handling it using the branch as a handle. Just be sure to move it by the base only.

 

[911paramedic]

That is much thicker than I was thinking, so you can scrap the wood idea...

You are going to need a bit something LIKE THIS.

I know that is a wood bit, but I was not sure what they called it for stone. It would cost a lot for a bit like that for stone is my guess. You could probably get somebody at a kitchen/bathroom remodel place to bore it for you, for a price. You could also look into renting it at the local rental place, they are good about having things like that.

There is another way to go, and may be easier. Since that block is so thick you could bore a hole a little bigger than the branch all the way through your paver. Fill in the extra space around the branch with grout and let it dry, then cut the bottom of the branch even with the paver. Varnish or seal the bottom of your branch. I know you can get a boring bit at a rental place.

 

[ttn1]

As long as you hold the diamond bits steady, you will be able to countersink with them. A drill press and clamp will do wonders to help with this. If you use 2 drill bits,
the counterbore will have a conical bottom. This will actually act like a clamp, holding the nut in place.

Edit: I probably wouldn't even use a washer under the nut. You may have to make a few though before you figure out how much to tighten before the block breaks.

Edit 2: One last option. Get a piece of all thread, just a bolt that has threads all the way down and no head, or just cut the head off the bolt. Drill a hole larger than
the bolt. Set the bolt in the hole and secure it in place with marine epoxy or hydraulic concrete patch. Both epoxies can be found at most home centers. Then just
counterbore the branch and cut the bolt off so that it is about 1/4 inch below the top of the branch. Plug the hole in the branch and your set.

 

[MichaelD]

Wow, great suggestions here! I am humbled in the face of so much knowledge. I'm glad I posted this; I was thinking "nah, it's dumb...[adam sandler] They're gonna laugh at you![/adam sandler] but you guys really came thru...I have lots to research. Sheesh, can't anything be simple? Have a super day. I'll post a pic when I'm done.

 

[911paramedic]

Originally posted by: ttn1
As long as you hold the diamond bits steady, you will be able to countersink with them. A drill press and clamp will do wonders to help with this. If you use 2 drill bits,
the counterbore will have a conical bottom. This will actually act like a clamp, holding the nut in place.
Edit: I probably wouldn't even use a washer under the nut. You may have to make a few though before you figure out how much to tighten before the block breaks.
Edit 2: One last option. Get a piece of all thread, just a bolt that has threads all the way down and no head, or just cut the head off the bolt. Drill a hole larger than
the bolt. Set the bolt in the hole and secure it in place with marine epoxy or hydraulic concrete patch. Both epoxies can be found at most home centers. Then just
counterbore the branch and cut the bolt off so that it is about 1/4 inch below the top of the branch. Plug the hole in the branch and your set.

I am an idiot. I sooooo forgot about expansion anchors. You just need to drill a hole, put this in it, then insert a double ended screw. One end of the screw is for machine use, the other for wood. Clear as mud, right?

edit: fixed link, doh

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: 911paramedic

Originally posted by: ttn1
As long as you hold the diamond bits steady, you will be able to countersink with them. A drill press and clamp will do wonders to help with this. If you use 2 drill bits,
the counterbore will have a conical bottom. This will actually act like a clamp, holding the nut in place.
Edit: I probably wouldn't even use a washer under the nut. You may have to make a few though before you figure out how much to tighten before the block breaks.
Edit 2: One last option. Get a piece of all thread, just a bolt that has threads all the way down and no head, or just cut the head off the bolt. Drill a hole larger than
the bolt. Set the bolt in the hole and secure it in place with marine epoxy or hydraulic concrete patch. Both epoxies can be found at most home centers. Then just
counterbore the branch and cut the bolt off so that it is about 1/4 inch below the top of the branch. Plug the hole in the branch and your set.

I am an idiot. I sooooo forgot about expansion anchors. You just need to drill a hole, put this in it, then insert a double ended screw. One end of the screw is for machine use, the other for wood. Clear as mud, right?

edit: fixed link, doh

Hey, now there's an idea!!! Basically, it's a threaded insert that goes into the concrete....aren't those just for lag bolts though? Lag bolts have a cap head (square, grab it with a wrench) and threads like a screw...

I've got a lot of questions for those Home Depot dudes! Unfortunately, finding one that knows more than me (not a brag...most don't know a hammer from a screwdriver.) is a task. Thanks, 911.

 

[skyking]

unless you pour your own high strength block, it will pop if you use an expansion anchor. concrete has almost no strength in tension, it relies on massiveness to hold those anchors. Without a large continuous block, like a wall or footing, the forces will crack it in half.

 

[MichaelD]

BUMP for mission sorta-success! See original post, please.

 

[MichaelD]

Hmm, maybe the morning crowd is only on in the morning?

 

[MichaelD]

Bump for the morning crowd.

 

[911paramedic]

Looks like it turned out ok, except for the paver breaking wrong.
It would be cool if you could find a paver like this.

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
Looks like it turned out ok, except for the paver breaking wrong.
It would be cool if you could find a paver like this.

Heck yeah, that would make a COOL base! AS a matter of fact, the "arms and legs" of that stone would create nice wide, stable base. Thanks for your help yesterday, 911paramedic.