beggerking, I don't understand your logic here. I've laughed at things you've said but didn't agree with them. Why does the fact that crazydingo laughed a sign of agreement / trolling?
Assume for a second that we live in reality and they will know what the final specs/performance are a few months before they have ramped up production enough to do a full retail launch. So what you're saying is if your choice is "launch and lift NDA in March/April" or "show card to reviewers and lift NDA in February, launch in March/April", you'd choose the former (as a consumer)? Interesting.
Presumably, if the new hardware is actually better than the competing hardware, it would be better for consumers to have price/performance numbers on it, and potentially not purchase an inferior 'competing' card when they would rather wait for the upcoming one (or at least be able to make an informed decision). If it's equal or worse, they would not potentially wait for months for hardware that may not live up to expectations.
I can't see how having the information available earlier -- assuming the information is accurate and the promised launch date is actually met -- is a bad thing for consumers. The incentive to "preview" things early to hurt competitive products' sales is not as strong as you think it is, since you will also cannibalize sales of your current product line if your next-generation one looks vastly superior.
It isnt, its just that some people need a reason to blame Ati for everything they do
Between hard launching in march or paper launching in february with availability in march its pretty clear which the best one is
Because if they hard launch, some people will buy a G80 thinking the R600 wont be anything special, and when it comes out they kick themselves for not waiting - a paper launch solves that problem, because you already have actual performance numbers before the launch
But theres no use arguing with logic here
On the other hand, by releasing the specifications and performance previews early we are delayed the drop in price new products quickly take. For instance, the 8800GTX has already dropped $50 in about a month. Now if on Nov. 8th we only received reviews instead of products and the 8800GTX was just now hitting the shelves, it would be Q1 07 before we saw it hit $600 instead of $650. The sooner the product is out, the sooner it will be cheaper. Not to mention driver problems get resolved by having consumers report the issues and the longer time-period in between a review and a product the more delayed stability / performance improvments are.
I can see both as being valid preferences, but to me a hard launch is ideal even if we could see the performance before hand.
Unfortunately he cant comprehend this simple fact and see the obvious here, so I guess we should stop wasting time. :laugh:
Hexus now has more info on R600:
R600 XTX - Dragon's Head
R600 XT - Cat's Eye
R600 XL - UFO (Inq said it was scrapped apparently not if this is true) Release after 30 days of R600 launch
R700 - Wekiva
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=7455
I'm assuming here that the actual 'launch' date would be the same either way, and the choice is just whether to 'preview' the final hardware to reviewers before it's actually available in retail.
It's not like not releasing the information enables ATI to crank out the cards faster.
agreeing with Tegeril's pointless attack on Wreckage's opinion that "Review sample = paper launch".. ?
yet they do not say they disagree that it is not a paper launch? plain personal attack = trolling.
True, but it's not like a preview has to be an all-out review and a lift of the NDA. We had previews of G80's 3DMark scores before it hit.
I'm not saying that withholding the performance levels until availability is strong increases their production, but it opens for a much smoother launch with more time for prices to drop and driver to mature. By keeping a product in poster status for a month or two just delays the life of the actual, tangible product.
QFT. These are my exact thoughts. If the performance of R600 is actually superior then people would wait anyway.
Okay.
I'm not sure if I agree with you, mostly since those sentences have serious grammatical errors and I'm not really sure what you are trying to say. Could you maybe rephrase that?
Wreckage
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Some companies have "announced" products in the past and they never saw the light of day. Some "preview" cards have shown up with better clocks and tweaked drivers that did not match retail. Some announced dates have been missed. Many quoted prices have been inaccurate. A preview can be more false hope than reality.
If they hard launch and reviewers have the same retail card that you can buy, then there are no discrepancies. You can still wait a few weeks if you want and make your decision.
Wreckage
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No, I'm against ANY company paper launching.
Hard launching of course, so you can have actual product instead of screen shots and a empty PCIe slot.
You have a paper launch and then you still wait and then when the card comes out and the performance and cost don't match the paper you get more people that hate paper launches.
Yet you still try.
If they give out false information or false promises, obviously that is no good. I said so multiple times.
Even if you think the information may be inaccurate, you could always choose to disregard it. Having more information (even if that information has the potential to not be correct) is almost always better than having less information.
If you have no idea how new hardware coming out relatively soon is going to perform, I don't know how you could even *try* to make an informed decision whether to buy something now or wait for the new product to launch, and so you basically have to wait. Even if the new product isn't significantly faster/better than what is out now, it may force significant price drops on the current products. It's better for the consumer to know what's coming as soon as possible -- assuming, of course, that the information is correct.
I agree that withholding performance previews does not increase product production.
However, if the reviews were released and the NDAs lifted but no product was available, the card would simply be in poster-status--meaning all we can do is look at what it looks like on paper.
The longer a product is "launched" but unavailable for usage, the longer we consumers must wait to participate in the market. Nvidia and ATi don't get anything by shipping out samples to review sites and not selling the card. The original MSRP of a product will continue to hold until there is some financial movement with that product. Thus, the MSRP of a card that launched in month "x" will still hold tightly to the actual sell-value on the market in month "y". If the product launches with the reviews and expiration of NDA's, the consumers can immediately partake in financial movement of the product.
For instance, the X1950XTX had what some call a product preview where the review sites published their findings and the NDA's were lifted. The MSRP for it was $450. A month later the slave cards actually became available for purchase at $460ish to $480ish. A month after that the price had already dropped to about $400-$420ish. If the product would have been available at the time of the "preview" we would have seen the card hit the $400-$420ish mark a month sooner. The ratio was even worse with the X1950XTX Mastercards.
As far as drivers go, nothing helps them mature faster than having the public use the product. The longer the product is "launched" but withheld from public testing, the longer the consumers must wait for solid drivers and better operation. Can you imagine were we'd be with the G80 if we were just now starting to get the actual card?
I agree, but I'm operating on the assumption here that the product would be 'launched' (read: available for retail purchase) at about the same time whether there were 'previews' or not. I don't think that letting review sites see the (presumably) finalized hardware before the actual 'launch' has a real effect on how long it takes prices to go down, or on driver stability at or after release.
Obviously, if a product truly 'launched' earlier, it would go down in price faster and develop stable drivers faster... but if ATI/NVIDIA could launch the products sooner, I'm sure they would. They've definitely released half-baked products (or ones that couldn't be kept in stock for months) before... seems like they are pushing the envelope pretty hard already. I doubt they are deliberately holding the product back for a month or two past when they could have released it.
Although I agree that accurate information about a product before it's widely available is a good thing, most of the time...
If AMD/ATI indeed only ship review samples in February and we dont see a retail product until March/April, their sole purpose for doing that would be to curb G80 sales and NOT to benefit you.
The mere fact that the consumers get a sneak peak is nothing more than a bi-product at their attempt to take some profits away from Nvidia.
That's why I prefer the hard launch. It gives the consumers the choice right then and there and is not a marketing ploy.
If AMD/ATI indeed only ship review samples in February and we dont see a retail product until March/April, their sole purpose for doing that would be to curb G80 sales and NOT to benefit you.
The mere fact that the consumers get a sneak peak is nothing more than a bi-product at their attempt to take some profits away from Nvidia.
That's why I prefer the hard launch. It gives the consumers the choice right then and there and is not a marketing ploy.
Oh, okay.
It's not letting the reviewers see the finalized hardware but rather not letting the consumers see it that does that.
This is true. I just think that if they can't actually give their product to the people, they should let previews trickle out but not reviews that recommend a non-existent purchase.
DeathReborn
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- Oct 11, 2005
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Exactly. People will always prefer product in hand to words on a piece of paper. All ATI/AMD & nVidia are interested in is making money so if they can "pinch" sales from their competitor they'll do it.
I upgrade/buy new PC's at specific times (12/18 months) and i'll buy the best I can get at that time, not wait another month for something that might be better.
Joe public isn't going to hold off buying a Dell to wait for a new GPU, they just want the PC cheap & as soon as they can get it.
- Mar 20, 2000
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reviewers always get samples prior to the launch, often weeks prior. that gives them time to *gasp* review the hardware and have an article up as soon as the NDA expires. ati does it, amd does it, intel does it, and *holy sh!t* nvidia does it too.
Keysplayr
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- Jan 16, 2003
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The actuality of it all, is: This has absolutely nothing to do with nvidia. Even if it IS a so called paper launch, as N7 said, people seem to like knowing before hand, even if they cannot currently buy the product at the time they read the reviews. At least they have the information they need to make a possible buying decision.
I myself don't care one way or the other, as I do not run right out and buy any card when it is first released anyways. I wait a bit for the buying frenzy to die down. I just create "my own little pretend paper launch" and pretend I can't buy it yet. Saves me some dough.
I just gotta say to you Wreckage, if you're not happy that AMD is coming out with a new G80 contender, you're insane. (in a nice way
). If it competes nicely with G80, the G80 prices will come down as long as AMD prices accordingly.Got it? Yes? Kewl....
Wreckage
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Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
I just gotta say to you Wreckage, if you're not happy that AMD is coming out with a new G80 contender, you're insane. (in a nice way
First -> I am insane. Probably not in a nice way.
Second -> I want AMD to compete. That's why I want them to come out of the gate running with a hard launch and not dick around with a paper launch (which according to that same badly worded poll, many people dislike).
I don't want AMD to fail in any way shape or form. While my next setup will be a G80\C2D machine, I am currently using both AMD and ATI products.
I guess we will find out in a month or so just what AMD is really up to.
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