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He's mouthing off again, and not backing up his statements again.

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,963
13,918
126


The reason American conservatives and Republican politicians and Donald in particular rarely attempt to prove anything they claim is because they dont want to make a habit out of it. They dont want people routinely questioning them and fact-checking everything they say or write. Its much easier to never back up your statements and just forge ahead with blind conviction and unquestioning belief. Incidentally thats how the Taliban operates, or any oppressive nation reliant on religion.
American shitbags have become marvelously skilled at ignoring questions and pushing their psychotic agenda. I'm pretty sure it will be Americas downfall. And possibly before I grow old and die.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
13,536
10,457
136


The reason American conservatives and Republican politicians and Donald in particular rarely attempt to prove anything they claim is because they dont want to make a habit out of it. They dont want people routinely questioning them and fact-checking everything they say or write. Its much easier to never back up your statements and just forge ahead with blind conviction and unquestioning belief. Incidentally thats how the Taliban operates, or any oppressive nation reliant on religion.
American shitbags have become marvelously skilled at ignoring questions and pushing their psychotic agenda. I'm pretty sure it will be Americas downfall. And possibly before I grow old and die.
Please. Mayor Pete debate Trump on a national stage about election fraud. I'd pay to see that shit.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
74,109
26,485
136
Please. Mayor Pete debate Trump on a national stage about election fraud. I'd pay to see that shit.
Why? Debates like this never go the way people think they will. All that will happen is Trump will spout off a thousand lies and there won’t be any meaningful way to fact check them in real time so if anything it will serve as a vehicle for misinformation.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
21,503
13,910
136
Why? Debates like this never go the way people think they will. All that will happen is Trump will spout off a thousand lies and there won’t be any meaningful way to fact check them in real time so if anything it will serve as a vehicle for misinformation.
Correct. Debating with Trump is a losing proposition. He doesn’t care what the facts are and has no shame spewing total bullshit. Try to call him out and he will just say whoever he is debating is wrong.

Debates depend on a level of integrity being present. Trump has none and has shown other Republican politicians that integrity is not necessary to have a successful political career.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
16,786
4,447
136
Why? Debates like this never go the way people think they will. All that will happen is Trump will spout off a thousand lies and there won’t be any meaningful way to fact check them in real time so if anything it will serve as a vehicle for misinformation.
Even if you could fact check in real time, neither side would agree to the sources used to fact check. I’d rather Katy Porter debate trump than Mayor Pete.
 

nOOky

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2004
2,197
1,050
136
Meh, he's just trying to remain in the news and relevant. He need not worry, his minions will vote for him in 2024 regardless. Unfortunately, there will be many thousands less as they continue to die off from covid. Poor bastards.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
13,536
10,457
136
Why? Debates like this never go the way people think they will. All that will happen is Trump will spout off a thousand lies and there won’t be any meaningful way to fact check them in real time so if anything it will serve as a vehicle for misinformation.
I disagree. The right opponent could make trump look like an idiot. They have to be able to speak frankly and not dance around with the polite political speak so many Democrats fall into.

The opponent is the fact checker. Would just have to shut Trump's mic off if needed.

No this would not change Trump's base's mind because they are corrupt beyond repair, but it would be good for for Dems to see someone make trump look stupid on a national stage, and for independents.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
5,917
890
126
Even if you could fact check in real time, neither side would agree to the sources used to fact check. I’d rather Katy Porter debate trump than Mayor Pete.
Fair enough, Katie Porter is a better debater, but Mayor Pete would get under the orange monkey’s skin more. Like how dare this gay guy out man me!!!!!
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
74,109
26,485
136
I disagree. The right opponent could make trump look like an idiot. They have to be able to speak frankly and not dance around with the polite political speak so many Democrats fall into.

The opponent is the fact checker. Would just have to shut Trump's mic off if needed.

No this would not change Trump's base's mind because they are corrupt beyond repair, but it would be good for for Dems to see someone make trump look stupid on a national stage, and for independents.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
I've heard this same claim made for every debate in my adult life. 'Gore's going to wipe the floor with Bush', 'Clinton's going to destroy Trump', etc. Never happened because the format is not designed to get the truth out and the bullshit asymmetry principle gives the biggest liar a huge advantage.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
13,536
10,457
136
I've heard this same claim made for every debate in my adult life. 'Gore's going to wipe the floor with Bush', 'Clinton's going to destroy Trump', etc. Never happened because the format is not designed to get the truth out and the bullshit asymmetry principle gives the biggest liar a huge advantage.
Gore and Clinton, they speak in more polite flowery acceptable and often fancier prose which does not work with Trump, this is why they fail miserably. My point is we need an actual debater who doesn't dance around with these polite terms and is also smart enough to counter Trump. It's not rocket science, but we live in a world where Democrats are just too polite. So I agree with you that if we send the same old style of debater it would fail miserably. But my point is do it differently

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,671
2,316
136
The people who are supporting him aren't interested in facts. I would personally keep bringing up all the people who have deserted him. Lin Wood is the latest one who now claims that the election conspiracy & Michael Flynn are now deep state products. Alternate conspiracies from within his circle will start to have people doubting Trump's command of the narrative. If that crumbles, there is nothing left.
 

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
5,768
142
106
I disagree. The right opponent could make trump look like an idiot. They have to be able to speak frankly and not dance around with the polite political speak so many Democrats fall into.

The opponent is the fact checker. Would just have to shut Trump's mic off if needed.

No this would not change Trump's base's mind because they are corrupt beyond repair, but it would be good for for Dems to see someone make trump look stupid on a national stage, and for independents.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Sanders would have made a good opponent in such a debate...
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
18,749
5,770
136
I disagree. The right opponent could make trump look like an idiot. They have to be able to speak frankly and not dance around with the polite political speak so many Democrats fall into.

The opponent is the fact checker. Would just have to shut Trump's mic off if needed.

No this would not change Trump's base's mind because they are corrupt beyond repair, but it would be good for for Dems to see someone make trump look stupid on a national stage, and for independents.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
You'd have to have Trump in a straightjacket with a controllable ball gag in his mouth to have a debate.
 

DisarmedDespot

Senior member
Jun 2, 2016
474
414
136
Gore and Clinton, they speak in more polite flowery acceptable and often fancier prose which does not work with Trump, this is why they fail miserably. My point is we need an actual debater who doesn't dance around with these polite terms and is also smart enough to counter Trump. It's not rocket science, but we live in a world where Democrats are just too polite. So I agree with you that if we send the same old style of debater it would fail miserably. But my point is do it differently
I doubt it. Dems aren't like Trumpanzees, they don't get energized by 20-second soundbytes with clickbait titles or one-line zingers about their political foes getting owned by a god-emperor with a permanent orange tinge. They're generally more energized by policies they want (infrastructure, m4a, etc) or (in the case of 2020) policies they DON'T want (every one of trump's dumb ideas).

The right-wing 'debate me' culture purely exists to generate those soundbytes on facebook that claim the orange don is a genius. There's zero reason to engage it.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
13,536
10,457
136
I doubt it. Dems aren't like Trumpanzees, they don't get energized by 20-second soundbytes with clickbait titles or one-line zingers about their political foes getting owned by a god-emperor with a permanent orange tinge. They're generally more energized by policies they want (infrastructure, m4a, etc) or (in the case of 2020) policies they DON'T want (every one of trump's dumb ideas).

The right-wing 'debate me' culture purely exists to generate those soundbytes on facebook that claim the orange don is a genius. There's zero reason to engage it.
This is where you are wrong and why Dems are losing elections like the Governorship of Virginia, almost the Governorship in NJ and various other seats just a few weeks ago, and they will absolutely lose the midterms by more than we think if they don't start appealing via regular talk and taking on their opponents with straight talk, like straight up calling CRT a campaign of lies and daring Republican candidates to point out specifics. You don't need to talk like Trump but you need to start landing punches, which you are saying is dumb. You have never been more wrong.

I pray you are not a democratic political consultant.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
74,109
26,485
136
Gore and Clinton, they speak in more polite flowery acceptable and often fancier prose which does not work with Trump, this is why they fail miserably. My point is we need an actual debater who doesn't dance around with these polite terms and is also smart enough to counter Trump. It's not rocket science, but we live in a world where Democrats are just too polite. So I agree with you that if we send the same old style of debater it would fail miserably. But my point is do it differently

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
I think this is wishful thinking. I see no evidence anywhere in the historical record that some sort of great debate performance would meaningfully move the needle.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
13,536
10,457
136
I think this is wishful thinking. I see no evidence anywhere in the historical record that some sort of great debate performance would meaningfully move the needle.
I think it's wishful thinking because Dems just haven't tried to be more normal, instead mostly appealing to more intellectual speak. Well those days are over. I know multiple people that saw the debates and were like why don't these Dems just call out these fuckers more strongly and directly.

Here are some historical records of debate performances, or non performances, that moved the needle:

 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
74,109
26,485
136
I think it's wishful thinking because Dems just haven't tried to be more normal, instead mostly appealing to more intellectual speak. Well those days are over. I know multiple people that saw the debates and were like why don't these Dems just call out these fuckers more strongly and directly.
Political partisans often think this is the solution but just as often that sort of confrontation is actually off-putting to normies so it's counterproductive.

All this would do is give Trump a platform to spread lies - even if you forcefully pushed back at him the most likely outcome will be that there will be one or two lies where there's a grain of truth or whatever and then everyone will focus on 'actually, Trump was right!' This debate will never happen because Democratic strategists know this. Trump is best off ignored.

Here are some historical records of debate performances, or non performances, that moved the needle:

Every single one of those is some sort of performance gaffe and has nothing to do with challenging people on the substance of policy or whatever. This is why of all the debates in 2020 the only one that had any impact was the first one where Trump acted insane - it had nothing to do with Biden as Trump clearly couldn't care less who his opponent is.
 
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