Hero reviews

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: Mo0o
Personally it seems like a subtley communist flick. Greater good over personal goals.

That's also a utilitarian point of view, so it's not necessarily communist.

It is very utilitarian, but communism itself spouts very utilitarian views.

But, utilitarianism is also a separate idea. Greater good does not automatically imply communism. There needs to be more substance.

 

[purepolly]

Originally posted by: zener
Western religion, generally speaking Christianity separates good and evil hence dualism, hence God-Satan.
Monism deals with the idea that people have both good and evil and fluctuate between the two hence yin-yang. Monism also falls into place in when one dies, the body does not disappear but changes state. Dualism says that there is a seaparate soul from the body. The only way that one can explain the discrepancies in the Bible is by believing dualism. This is a very rough explanation. Please feel free to add to this or correct anything I may have missunderstood.
One other thing, if jesus is considered perfect then why does he become angry in the temple. If one believes in yin-yang, then it makes sense becasue he has much more good than bad but if one beleives in dualism then it is much harder to rationalize. Hope this helps.

Okay, if it works for you. I'll go along with the yin-yang, good-bad duality, but I'm not sure what you mean about the statement, "the body does not disappear but changes state" - clearly the body decays, but if you mean the essence/soul continues on - I'm in agreement.

As to rationalizing the rest, have you ever checked out Spiral Dynamics, or the writings of Ken Wilber? They both present an understanding of the different developmental levels of consciousness, that I found to be very intuitively accurate and which helped me understand varying perspectives, and not get all wrapped up in literal translations of texts.

 

[zener]

I really haven't decided what works for me. I am trying to reprogram and relearn what really exists instead of what I was taught. In South Pacific, the song she sings about having something "drummed into our little heads" rings true for me. I think Karl Marx is very misunderstood, misquoted and given a bad name. He basically felt that societies must go thro a certain progression resulting in communism. And he was careful to note that if the steps were not followed that chaos and severe repercussions would follow which is observed in history at least from what I have learned. In the same way that Darwin is misunderstood, misread and misunderstood is also something that I am very concerned about as well. In the United States, there seems to be an overall fear factor w/o objective and clear understanding. I have seen a lot of regurgitative statements with little knowledge of the basics which concerns me. So this is why I have a lot of doubt in listening to the Westernized academics because of the now obvious bias that I have begun to see.
So when I hear reviews of Asian films, I am at a loss and quite hungry to find people who truly understand what is going on and want to discuss what really is the root of what the director is filming. Most of Hollywood films are so superficial to ever exercise the mentality and I have found that even now a lot of westernized asians have little or no idea of their roots and their culture which is just as alarming to me.
For me, the arts depict the world view and how warped, misled or misunderstood of who we are as people and where we came from and where we are going. I have felt cheated myself and am trying to piece together what I lost over the yeras in understanding. I beleive for now that the many cultures have much to contribute and that Westernization somehow works so much as an opiate that it paralyzes people to focus on what really is important for who we are. But I have said too much. I really do appreciate a lively discussion with poeple who understand what I am talking about. I apologize for my soapbox.
😱 Carry on!! Hero is still in my top 10!! And Broken Sword is quite amazing to me!!
i would like to meet someone like him. 🙂

 

[dopcombo]

Erm, this is my understanding, and I'm of the yellow skin race, so you may disagree.

Anyway, jet li's character (forgot his name, i saw this 2-3 yrs back) chose to give up his life because he knew that he had touched the emperor with the pains of war, and the true ideals of harmony, and that the emperor would change. he would no longer value war for war's sake, and would consider the heroes and men that had fallen.

however, the king couldn't simply let him live, or he would lose face in front of his own "evil" followers, so he had to let jet li die.


"Tian Xia" means all the world under the skies. This idea of protecting the world while giving oneself up, isn't so much communist, as heroic self sacrifice....

 

[EpsiIon]

Originally posted by: zener
One other thing, if jesus is considered perfect then why does he become angry in the temple. If one believes in yin-yang, then it makes sense becasue he has much more good than bad but if one beleives in dualism then it is much harder to rationalize.

Without getting into a long, drawn-out debate, I just want to say this: Got gets angry sometimes. If you look at the Old Testament, God destroys entire cities (e.g. Sodom and Gomorrah Genesis 19 - but read before it get context). It's not anger itself that is bad. There's a good, but rather long article about this issue here.


As for my take on Hero: of course it was subtley communist. The Chinese government wouldn't have allowed it if it made some statement about how dictators should be overthrown...

Also, Hero wrapped self-sacrifice for the good of the state in a very tasty self-sacrifice for the good of everybody exterior. The two are not necessarily the same.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: EpsiIon

Originally posted by: zener
One other thing, if jesus is considered perfect then why does he become angry in the temple. If one believes in yin-yang, then it makes sense becasue he has much more good than bad but if one beleives in dualism then it is much harder to rationalize.

Also, Hero wrapped self-sacrifice for the good of the state in a very tasty self-sacrifice for the good of everybody exterior. The two are not necessarily the same.

You guys are getting too hung up on modern china. The movie isn't about modern china, it's about the china undergoing unification. It was the most important thing at the time. So taken in context, what's good for the state is good for the people.

As for the emporers choices, it was the mandate of heaven. Not really, but he knew that would be his explanation so none could question him.

Taken in context, the movie is very clear. Trying to interpret it with modern biases, it loses its message.

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: Kibbo

Originally posted by: Mo0o
Personally it seems like a subtley communist flick. Greater good over personal goals.

The sentiment that one should sacrifice of oneself for a greater good is not communist. What about philanthropy? What about Military Service? These are both cornerstones of capitalist theory. What about child-rearing?

God, i hate stupid right-wingers who don't even understand their own ideology.

doing things that benefits the greater good is called utilitarianism

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: zener
I still would like if someone could comment on the film from the perspective of culture. I have some infromation and understanding and from the expert reviews that I have read, I have yet to read one that is explains the different levels that exist in this film. Hollywood films seem so superficial in comparison and it was refreshing to see a film that challenged my thinking.
Being brought up in a dualist thinking western world is a handicap when I am learning that monism is more likely the reality. Dang those Christians!! LOL
Comments on dualism vs monism??

asians are much more society oriented vs the much more individualism orientation of the west.

 

[puffff]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: EpsiIon

Originally posted by: zener
One other thing, if jesus is considered perfect then why does he become angry in the temple. If one believes in yin-yang, then it makes sense becasue he has much more good than bad but if one beleives in dualism then it is much harder to rationalize.

Also, Hero wrapped self-sacrifice for the good of the state in a very tasty self-sacrifice for the good of everybody exterior. The two are not necessarily the same.

You guys are getting too hung up on modern china. The movie isn't about modern china, it's about the china undergoing unification. It was the most important thing at the time. So taken in context, what's good for the state is good for the people.

As for the emporers choices, it was the mandate of heaven. Not really, but he knew that would be his explanation so none could question him.

Taken in context, the movie is very clear. Trying to interpret it with modern biases, it loses its message.

PrinceofWands is right, you have to look at it from a historical point of view. The unification of china is a really important event in chinese history. The first emperor of china is known for many tyrannical acts, he burnt books to keep people uneducated, he was probably a bit ruthless in forcing the great wall to be built, yet you cant deny his important contributions such as the unification of china.

The whole calligraphy/swordplay thing was weird too, but i think it might've been added in there cuz one of the first emperor's accomplishments was also the standardization of written language.

 

[zener]

Something that I also really enjoyed was the music in this film. It was not like anything I have heard before even tho it was oriental sounding. It was different somehow.

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: zener
I still would like if someone could comment on the film from the perspective of culture. I have some infromation and understanding and from the expert reviews that I have read, I have yet to read one that is explains the different levels that exist in this film. Hollywood films seem so superficial in comparison and it was refreshing to see a film that challenged my thinking.
Being brought up in a dualist thinking western world is a handicap when I am learning that monism is more likely the reality. Dang those Christians!! LOL
Comments on dualism vs monism??

asians are much more society oriented vs the much more individualism orientation of the west.

very true

its amazing how individualistic american people are

 

[5ayle]

PrinceOfWands, that's how i saw it too... If Nameless (Jet Li) would have killed the emperor then the Warring States era would have persisted, more deaths and stuff so the best solution is Tian Xia.

 

[5ayle]

On a side note: Isn't this what Europe is heading towards? You all nations as one... and kind of what happen w/ the Union of our states.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: 5ayle
On a side note: Isn't this what Europe is heading towards? You all nations as one... and kind of what happen w/ the Union of our states.

No, that's highly unlikely to happen. Unlike the colonies that made the us (same language/religion/origin) and china (in this case), europe is quite different: many different nations, who have their own language/customs/culture and have been sovereign for many many years. They are unlikely to transfer their power and sovereignty to supernational government. In fact, the poeple who want to see a "united states of europe" are a small minority.

What the EU is most likely to become something more than a free trade area, but less than a country. A grouping of nations with common interests, with different tiers of integration (Euro, Schengen, etc).

 

[murphy55d]

Can someone tell me... I saw the special extended version that is already on DVD(chinese w/ english subtitles)... how does the version that is in theaters here differ from that version?

 

[purepolly]

I really haven't decided what works for me. I am trying to reprogram and relearn what really exists instead of what I was taught. In South Pacific, the song she sings about having something "drummed into our little heads" rings true for me. I think Karl Marx is very misunderstood, misquoted and given a bad name. He basically felt that societies must go thro a certain progression resulting in communism. And he was careful to note that if the steps were not followed that chaos and severe repercussions would follow which is observed in history at least from what I have learned. In the same way that Darwin is misunderstood, misread and misunderstood is also something that I am very concerned about as well. In the United States, there seems to be an overall fear factor w/o objective and clear understanding. I have seen a lot of regurgitative statements with little knowledge of the basics which concerns me. So this is why I have a lot of doubt in listening to the Westernized academics because of the now obvious bias that I have begun to see.

🙂

Not everyone is at the same level of consciousness, and each level has it's own perspective, hence the misunderstanding, misquotes and misinformation you refer to.

Life gets a lot easier once you really understand this.